Electro Priests

[Charlo]

The Corpuscarii are actually pretty great IMO, hopefully your opponent will underestimate them and that's where they shine.

 

Each model has the potential to deliver 16 S4 hits a turn. Unlikely, yes, but damn that isn't half bad.

 

zap Zap ZAP

 

Like Immer I'd like to proxy before I bought any, purely because they're pretty expensive and they have a similar sort of role to the Sicarans from the Skitters codex (pile on hits) but rule of cool is deffo there.

 

A Unit of 20 could probably take a fair bit of punishment too - or at least will tie up some shooting seeing as they don't care if its a battle cannon or a bolter shooting them.

[Vel'Cona]

In terms of appearance and cost-benefit ratio, I really think the Sicarians are a stronger unit. That said, a blob of 20 Corpuscarii could be very strong if you can get a decent amount of them to range, especially when stacked with the right Canticle. The only thing stopping me from trying this out is the $41 USD per box required! Why oh why couldn't they have been 10 per box???

[Charlo]

In terms of appearance and cost-benefit ratio, I really think the Sicarians are a stronger unit. That said, a blob of 20 Corpuscarii could be very strong if you can get a decent amount of them to range, especially when stacked with the right Canticle. The only thing stopping me from trying this out is the $41 USD per box required! Why oh why couldn't they have been 10 per box???

Pretty much it. They should've been 10 per box and 14/15 points. Perfection then.

[Frater Cornelius]

In terms of appearance and cost-benefit ratio, I really think the Sicarians are a stronger unit. That said, a blob of 20 Corpuscarii could be very strong if you can get a decent amount of them to range, especially when stacked with the right Canticle. The only thing stopping me from trying this out is the $41 USD per box required! Why oh why couldn't they have been 10 per box???

Pretty much it. They should've been 10 per box and 14/15 points. Perfection then.

That, and they should have been Troops and both Kataphron variants Elite. That would be a solid stand-alone army.

[Terminus]

These guys are so bad.

[Nehekhare]

9pts, not more.

[DeStinyFiSh]

We will see.

Remember the Sicarians. Everyone was like"they will never make it because of T3 and way to expensive for something that just dies...". Now a lot of people have had a lot of success with them !

I think in combination with the CM detachment and the Canticlestheymight be quite strong ! Give them Stealth and Shrouded on turn 1 and 2 and boost their CC in round 3 (+Strenght, Reroll or additional attacks). It is not unlikely that they make a charge without to many losses.

 

For just 9 points everyone would spam them arround like there is nothing else in the codex.

[Charlo]

The thing about these priests (and the Sicarans, even Dragoons) for that matter is in a vacuum they do look like poor units. But when in the army as a whole they provide good uses.

 

The gauntlet ones are there to pile on dice and win through numbers. The staff ones are a little more defensive, loading on a few saves with instant death, trying to pop something to get thier 3++, personally i think they'll murder Necrons, as AP4 and ID stops RP right?

[PraetorDragoon]

ID reduces RP by 1, if I recall. 

 

Problem with the priests is getting where you want them. Once they get there in decent numbers they can wreck face....

 

I'm still needing a good role for the Fulgurites. Corpuscarii have a good reason because the number of shots they can throw out even at smaller numbers.

[Mippie]

I think the combination of canticles could make them really useful. Hang em in your back field and use them to charge enemies that appear in your back field, let the kataphron and Kastelan do the heavy lifting and advance up the field killing enemy objective holders...enemy gets into a position to threaten your objectives charge em with boosted strength, making them strength 8 ap4...should do some pain potentially even killing multi wound characters who are t4 or less without eternal warrior

[Charlo]

Stealth and Shrouded Canticle gets them there, Strength or electric Canticle wins them fights depending on opponents.

 

If you're expecting some heavy fire pop on the morale one, or even better pop it on when you're going to lose a combat, keep stuff tied up.

[PraetorDragoon]

No need to bother with the morale one. The Priests are Zealot, so they don't care about losses from the start.

[78zrider]

The way I see it is you get 1 elite group in a sense. You take 4 individual units of x amount each, take the formation and they all together = 1 unit. Almost like GW made them in a way to force you to take the formation. But because of the points I can't see taking more then 4 units of 5.

[PraetorDragoon]

So, I got to use some Elektro Priests in my game yesterday

 

I used 2x5 Corpuscarii and 1x15 Fulgurites. The Corpuscarii died after 2 turns of shooting and 1 assault turn. Fulgurites managed to mop up the Death Company remains and gain 3++. I was also obscene lucky with rolling 5s for the Invul saves and FNP for the Fulgurites. Aftewards, the Fulgurites murdered Scouts and some Devastators. 

 

 

So, Fulgurites performed much better than expected. Once you get that 3++ they become suprisingly though. Corpuscarii died too quickly to comment on. That 12" shooting range really hurts them. Litany of the Electromancer is very helpful for the Priests to get enough attacks afterwards.

 

Next time I intend to run 2x10 Fulgurites and 2x5 Corpuscarii for the Formation, that one looks fun to use.

[mmimzie]

So, I got to use some Elektro Priests in my game yesterday

 

I used 2x5 Corpuscarii and 1x15 Fulgurites. The Corpuscarii died after 2 turns of shooting and 1 assault turn. Fulgurites managed to mop up the Death Company remains and gain 3++. I was also obscene lucky with rolling 5s for the Invul saves and FNP for the Fulgurites. Aftewards, the Fulgurites murdered Scouts and some Devastators. 

 

 

So, Fulgurites performed much better than expected. Once you get that 3++ they become suprisingly though. Corpuscarii died too quickly to comment on. That 12" shooting range really hurts them. Litany of the Electromancer is very helpful for the Priests to get enough attacks afterwards.

 

Next time I intend to run 2x10 Fulgurites and 2x5 Corpuscarii for the Formation, that one looks fun to use.

the way i see it. the corpuscarii did thier job amazingly, and the fulgurites got kind of luck, potentialy due to an unknowing foe.

 

E.priest are shield for the cult codex. They are great screen that more or less need to be killed otherwise they can be suprizingly affective. Unlike other screen that you kind of just want to get around, and don't pose any real threat.  They are the slow looming death.

 

my fulgurite concerns are that they have to be the unit that destroys the enemy unit. even if one guy is left standing, the unit runs and you don't catch it (Initative 3 sucks), or your in a multi combat and your other charging unit take out the last model.

[PraetorDragoon]

the way i see it. the corpuscarii did thier job amazingly, and the fulgurites got kind of luck, potentialy due to an unknowing foe.

 

E.priest are shield for the cult codex. They are great screen that more or less need to be killed otherwise they can be suprizingly affective. Unlike other screen that you kind of just want to get around, and don't pose any real threat.  They are the slow looming death.

 

my fulgurite concerns are that they have to be the unit that destroys the enemy unit. even if one guy is left standing, the unit runs and you don't catch it (Initative 3 sucks), or your in a multi combat and your other charging unit take out the last model.

 

Fulgurites got certainly lucky. (What else can you call losing 1 model to 16 Ws4 S4 attacks.... <.< ) But they certainly get amazing when they get that 3++. Best way to get it is to hunt the survivors of Plasma/Graviton onslaught or vehicles. Or for use with the Formation.

 

I think you are right for the Corpuscarii. Good screening unit and suprisingly effective on low numbers.

[MaulerUK]

I think that people saying that these units are rubbish and/or need to be cheaper are overlooking what they are capable of.  I'm starting a league list in my local group and after using ten Corpuscarii in my last game I'm absolutely including them.

 

Deployed forward out of LOS, behind the ruin that my Vanguard & Sicarian Infiltrators were in.  Allowed my opponent to focus on my Breachers on one flank and Destroyers on the other, allowing the Priests to get forward where they'd be more useful using Shroudplasm for cover.  As they're slow and not doing much they got ignored until I used Electromancer, they got into range, put out 20 twinlinked ranged shots, made their charge against Logan Grimnar & his surviving retinue, did their 10 HOW hits, then 20 Canticle hits, Logan and the few remaining Wolf Guard struck and killed a few and then got killed by the ~21-24 Shock attacks in return.  Even taser Infiltrators (my other skirmishy assault unit in the list) for the same points can't put out that quantity of hits in a turn when using BS/WS +3.  I'd use Fulgarite Priests against a high toughness army where their higher strength is useful, like vs MCs but otherwise the Corpus Priests are great if used right.

[Vel'Cona]

Well, had a couple weeks to digest the Cult Mechanicus codex, and I've got some more refined thoughts on the Electro-Priests in general.  Suffice it to say, I still think the Fulgurites are pretty awful, but I've made an honest go at the number crunch for Corpuscarii.  In broad terms, the best way to compare them is vs. their two biggest competitors: Sicarian Infiltrators and Skitarii Vanguard.  I'll talk about the comparison to Vanguard first, since that's the one I have numbers for.

 

So, Vanguard strengths:

+ Half the cost

+ Longer threat range for shooting

+ Access to Scouts and Crusader

+ Doctrina Imperatives for BS up to 7

+ More shots per model and AP5

+ Rad-Poisoning on Carbines for additional shooting Wounds

+ Special weapon options to boost AP2 or armor killing potential (Plasma Calivers, Arc Rifles)

+ Smaller bases = smaller unit footprint for Blast/Template weapons and using cover

+ Better armor saves (4+)

 

And Corpuscarii strengths:

+ Save is Invulnerable

+ Better Feel No Pain (5+)

+ Far more melee potential (2 attacks ea., Canticles, "Frag Grenades" and S4 Hammer of Wrath hits from Voltgeist Field, Re-rolls To Hit in first round and essentially Fearless from Zealot, additional hits from Shock)

+ Higher Strength shooting (4 vs. 3)

+ Additional shooting hits from Shock

 

So, generally favoring the Vanguard for everything other than melee potential and a bit better durability on the Corpuscarii.  A few things I skipped include Corpuscarii's access to Crusader (since it comes with ridiculous Fulgurite-Formation tax) and Rad-Saturation on the Skitarii, since the Corpuscarri's S4 generally evens this out.

 

TL:DR, from a purely shooting perspective, especially if using allied Drop Pods, Vanguard are simply stronger AND far cheaper!  If you're willing to find them an Assault Transport, however, Corpuscarii can be powerful but this comes at a massive points cost.

[Scurvydog]

The way I see it, unless you play huge games, the priests also serve a very important role for a pure cult army, which is to maximize the use of canticles, the priests can become beasts with the canticles, especially with litany of the electromancer at tier 3, if you get the charge for HoW with 10 priests you get 40str 4 auto hits!

 

If i was a rich man I would try to spam priests, I really feel their synergy with canticles get ignored way too much in the various reviews of them I see.

 

After having played with canticles some more and especially the electromancer one, I feel a huge potential which takes a fair deal of planning, but perhaps with too much luck involved for tourny players.

 

If you run big priest units and save electromancer for when you can assault or know you will get assaulted, the priests quickly become the most dangerous thing to get close to in 40k. They can forge some great narratives at the very least I'm sure.

[mmimzie]

The way I see it, unless you play huge games, the priests also serve a very important role for a pure cult army, which is to maximize the use of canticles, the priests can become beasts with the canticles, especially with litany of the electromancer at tier 3, if you get the charge for HoW with 10 priests you get 40str 4 auto hits!

 

If i was a rich man I would try to spam priests, I really feel their synergy with canticles get ignored way too much in the various reviews of them I see.

 

After having played with canticles some more and especially the electromancer one, I feel a huge potential which takes a fair deal of planning, but perhaps with too much luck involved for tourny players.

 

If you run big priest units and save electromancer for when you can assault or know you will get assaulted, the priests quickly become the most dangerous thing to get close to in 40k. They can forge some great narratives at the very least I'm sure.

 

This is really thier point. they ad boderline mandatory at 1850 or few points. You want more units to protect tier 3 canticles, and the tier 3 canticles justify this as stealth and shrouded protect them for enough to let them jsut barely edge out stuff like vanguards, and only because shooting at these guys is such a waste. Wanna waste your marker lights to remove the cover save on the priest??? great more destroyer shots. Don't kill the priest and they can charge with electromancy and go nutts.

 

That said skits can get canticles with that white dwarf formation, but you pay for it in not having much control on the lay out on your army. 

 

So priest are only good in solo cult, and they do alright based on canticles. Even then i don't think i'd ever take the staff version. I also believe priest at better as MSU.

[MaulerUK]

Well, had a couple weeks to digest the Cult Mechanicus codex, and I've got some more refined thoughts on the Electro-Priests in general.  Suffice it to say, I still think the Fulgurites are pretty awful, but I've made an honest go at the number crunch for Corpuscarii.  In broad terms, the best way to compare them is vs. their two biggest competitors: Sicarian Infiltrators and Skitarii Vanguard.  I'll talk about the comparison to Vanguard first, since that's the one I have numbers for.

 

So, Vanguard strengths:

+ Half the cost

+ Longer threat range for shooting

+ Access to Scouts and Crusader

+ Doctrina Imperatives for BS up to 7

+ More shots per model and AP5

+ Rad-Poisoning on Carbines for additional shooting Wounds

+ Special weapon options to boost AP2 or armor killing potential (Plasma Calivers, Arc Rifles)

+ Smaller bases = smaller unit footprint for Blast/Template weapons and using cover

+ Better armor saves (4+)

 

And Corpuscarii strengths:

+ Save is Invulnerable

+ Better Feel No Pain (5+)

+ Far more melee potential (2 attacks ea., Canticles, "Frag Grenades" and S4 Hammer of Wrath hits from Voltgeist Field, Re-rolls To Hit in first round and essentially Fearless from Zealot, additional hits from Shock)

+ Higher Strength shooting (4 vs. 3)

+ Additional shooting hits from Shock

 

So, generally favoring the Vanguard for everything other than melee potential and a bit better durability on the Corpuscarii.  A few things I skipped include Corpuscarii's access to Crusader (since it comes with ridiculous Fulgurite-Formation tax) and Rad-Saturation on the Skitarii, since the Corpuscarri's S4 generally evens this out.

 

TL:DR, from a purely shooting perspective, especially if using allied Drop Pods, Vanguard are simply stronger AND far cheaper!  If you're willing to find them an Assault Transport, however, Corpuscarii can be powerful but this comes at a massive points cost.

 

This is a good analysis, nice work :)  Far less rambling than my nonsense!  However, I will point out that there are two problems with a direct comparison with Skitarii units:

 

1)  You need to factor in the additional points for the second unit of Rangers/Vanguard as that's the minimum requirement to get Skitarii in the force with an Maniple.

 

2)  Skitarii need to get from A to B without access to a mobile cover save (unless we're considering Dragoons also but they're far less resilient in assault vs S5+) or transports.

 

While #1 isn't too much of a biggie because it's not really that much (for a second decent usable unit), the second is a problem, especially when combined with the first.  For access to transportation that means allies and that means at the very least an HQ + 2 Troops to buy and then a drop-pod or other transport on top of that.  :(

[Vel'Cona]

I see what you're going for, but frankly point #1 is pretty hard to argue for since the requirements to take Electro-Priests are either:

a. Cult Mechanicus Detachment, so Dominus + 2 Kataphron units, minimum 405 points.

b. Electro-Priest formation, 360 points.

 

So I think the two unit requirement for Vanguard (minimum 110 points) is a bit easier to chew for most players.

 

As for point 2, I certainly understand the idea that Electro-Priests do come with a built-in Invulnerable save and can crank their Cover Save (assuming they get one) with Canticles, but if they're doing that then they're not focusing on offensive Canticles (a massive misstep in my book).  While Skitarii don't have a built-in Invul or Cover generator, their 4+ is reasonably relevant and the fact that you can take 2 for every 1 Electro-Priest tips the scales IMHO.

 

That said, I wouldn't say Corpuscarii are completely useless; perhaps we'd gain more from the Sicarian comparison?  More to follow!

[MaulerUK]

I disagree about the first point because if you're taking EPriests then you're already taking a Cult Detachment, in the same way that if you're taking Vanguard you're already taking two units of Skitarii. If you're podding in the Vanguard then you have to purchase a whole new detachment to transport them in addition to the Skitarii Maniple while the Cult Mech Detachment is self-contained without buying outside it. It's not like taking a Dominus and Kataphrons is a bad thing

Also, forgot to mention in my previous mail (which ties in here perfectly, oddly) is that the more CM units you field the better the Canticles get. I always field at least 5 units (Dominus, Breachers, Destroyers, Corpiscarii & Kastelans) so I can lose two units before I drop from mid to low-level Canticles. The Skitarii Imperatives are flat bonuses regardless of units.

As a comparison I can already tell you that Corpiscarii put out more damage than Blaster/Taser Sicarians just by looking at the principle numbers involved: 185pts is 5 Infiltrators & 180pts is 10 Corpiscarii. 20 twin-linked S4 Shock shots vs 25 S2 Shred shots. 10 HOW hits vs none. A 66% (I think?) increase in melee hits vs ~16% increased chance to hit (Canticle vs Imperative). 30 attacks on the charge vs 21.

Actually...vs MEq:

20 S4 TL Shock shots = 24 hits = 12.22 wounds = 4.07 kills

25 S2 Shred shots = 16.67 hits = 2.78 wounds = 1.7 kills

10 S4 HOW hits = 5 wounds = 1.67 kills

30 S4 Shock Zealot attacks @ WS3 = 32.08 hits = 16.04 wounds = 5.35 kills

21 S6 Taser attacks @ WS4 = 14.67 hits = 12.22 wounds = 4.07 kills

Priests: 4.07 + 1.67 + 5.35 = 1.09 kills without +20 hits Canticle

Sicarians: 1.7 + 4.07 = 5.77 kills without WS7 Imperative.

20 S4 Electromancer hits = 10 wounds = 3.33 kills

21 S6 Taser attacks @ WS7 = 18.67 hits = 15.56 wounds = 5.19 kills

Priests: 4.07 + 1.67 + 3.33 + 5.35 = 14.42 kills

Sicarians: 1.7 + 5.19 = 6.89 kills

Corpiscarii Priests turn out to be over twice as killy but less resilient and move ~6" slower per turn.

To real-world it a bit vs a standard 10-man MEq unit with Med-level Canticles/WS7 Imperatives active:

Corpiscarii:

20 S4 TL Shock shots = 24 hits = 12.22 wounds = 4.07 kills

12 S4 BS1 overwatch shots = 2 hits = 1.33 wounds = 0.98 kills

9 S4 HOW hits = 4.5 wounds = 1.5 kills

18 S4 Electromancer hits = 9 wounds = 3 kills

1 S4 MEq attack @WS4 = 0.67 hits = 0.44 wounds = 0.3 kills

27 S4 Priest Zealot Shock attacks @ WS3 = 29.33 hits = 14.67 wounds = 4.89 kills

Priest kills = 10 (4 left over)

Priest losses = 1

Infiltrators:

25 S2 Shred shots = 16.67 hits = 2.78 wounds = 1.7 kills

16 S4 BS1 overwatch shots = 2.67 hits = 1.78 wounds = 0.98 wounds

21 S6 WS7 Taser attacks = 23.33 hits = 19.44 wounds = 6.48 kills

2 S4 MEq attacks @WS3 = 1 hit = 0.67 wounds = 0.33 wounds

Sicarian kills = 8

Sicarian losses = 0 (1 wounded)

And Infiltrators into cover (Priests unaffected):

25 Shred shots = 1.7 kills

16 overwatch shots = 0.98 wounds

9 S4 MEq attacks @WS3 = 4 hits = 2.67 wounds = 1.33 wounds (1 kill)

17 S6 WS7 Taser attacks = 14.67 hits = 12.22 wounds = 4.07 kills

Sicarian kills = 6

Sicarian losses = 1

I like both units and usually field a unit of each at the quantities above but I stand by my Corpiscarii as the killy guys while the Infiltrators are my interception crew.

[Vel'Cona]

Look out, zombie thread! Crud, I let it bite me . . .

The numbers definitely don't lie, Corpuscarii can do pretty severe damage in the right situation and having more units for Canticles is a very good thing. In terms of a direct comparison to Sicarians, I think the Corpuscarii can make something of an argument in a standard AdMech detachment. I would never say there isn't potential for Corpuscarii to be effective once they get to 12" or less of the enemy.

The problem here is that getting them to this range is simply not realistic vs. a reasonably competent opponent. The complete lack of transport options, movement buffs, or even reasonable level of durability (T3, 5+ Invul and FnP are not enough) make this a subpar unit mated to an exorbitant cost. If they could take a Rhino, Drop Pod, or even had Dunestrider native to their dataslate, there would be far more arguments to make for this unit. As is, Corpuscarii can't beat the flexibility of Sicarian Infiltrators and are completely outclassed by Skitarii Vanguard . . . from a purely competitive standpoint! If you love the models, and the background for them, and have found a way to make them work specific to your friendly gaming group, then I don't begrudge you in the slightest. I for one would love to use Corpuscarii in my lists, but after much deliberation I simply can't overlook their competing units. I guess I'll have to blame my inner WAAC player!

[MaulerUK]

YES, BLAME THEM!  Grrrrr....

 

You know, I completely forgot about FNP on the Priests, haha!  Unfortunately reducing 0.98 by 33% isn't enough to negate that single kill but it does help.

 

Me and my little band of Palpatines will be ZZZZZAAAAAAPPing stuff over here, you carry on :D