General Discussion

[Sigismund229]

Sig, could you make the text a little bigger?

It has been done

 

And for the Black Guard culturally they resemble the Romans but their names are mainly drawn from the Baltic tribes

[Skalpynock]

The Dawn Bringers would be Indian/Persian. From what I see, the Black Guard covers well what I had in mind for the Ash Walkers, if they need a secondary title (plus if he still ends up at odds with Niklaas, the potential for "Ash and Dust" puns explodes).

[Sigismund229]

I could also relatively easily alter the Black Guard to be pysker heavy and the strain of controlling the pysker abilities gradually drains them and causes their bodies and minds to start consuming themselves.

[simison]

Thank you so much. My eyes were hurting just from glancing at that tiny text.

 

Thanks Skal, have you managed to find someone to take over the Void Eagles? And how finished are the Warbringers?

 

I will make my decision tomorrow morning right around when I made today's announcement. This is where the legion candidates stand with me.

 

[Catholic Legion]

Pros

• They could fill the hole left by the Word Bearers, a true religious legion that would struggle to avoid the Emperor's ire and the Great Crusade's overt Atheism. That would be a treasure trove of conflict, whether macro, mezzo, or micro. 
• As we move from the Insurrection to the End Times, this legion, if it survives the Great Crusade and the Insurrection would find itself ascending in power and influence as the galaxy becomes more religious. Yet, there could easily be quite a bit of conflict as the Ecclesiarchy and the Imperial cult take their destined places within the Imperium.
• Surprisingly, we really don't have a straighforward European Knight culture. In canon, the Dark Angels fills this role, while the Imperial Fists and the Blood Angels have elements of this. Even with the other warrior cultures, it's strange not having this warrior culture represented amongst our ranks.

Cons

• The Emperor. Why on Terra would he allow this legion to continue existing? The Word Bearers were at least worshipping him. But Catholicism/Christianity is definitely an enemy he has declared war on, as seen in The Last Church.
• The next big issue is us as a group. Is this something we are mature enough to handle without verbal explosions going off?
• In canon, there's one major psyker legion, and two other minor psyker legions (Blood Angels & White Scars). Here, we still have the Thousand Sons, but we also have the Halcyon Wardens and the Lightning Bearers. Do we really need another psyker legion?

 

Dawn Bringers

Pros

• We really are lacking in Lawful Good legions and straightforward 'good guy' Primarchs. 
• We don't have a Persion culture represented. 
• Plenty of room to develop them.

Cons

• The Indian culture is partially represented by the Halcyon Wardens.

 

Void Stalkers

Pros

• Blind Primarch is a cool idea.
• Another idea for an overtly spiritual legion to replace the Word Bearers.

Cons

• There really is a lot of overlap between here and the 1st legion. I've already mentioned the Primarch similarities, but both legions have strong anti-Chaos traits. The difference is here in BotL, it is Icarion who is charged with cleansing the galaxy. 
• We already have an Aztec legion.

 

Phantom Blades

Pros

• Fills in the assassin space marine niche.

Cons

• Do we actually need an Alpha Legion equivalent?

 

Undying Sons

Pros

• Again, missing Persian culture. 
• Twin Primarch idea offers plenty of story possibilities. Especially if one goes Traitor and the other goes Loyalist or some other kind of split loyalty.

Cons

• Again, we have an anti-Chaos legion already.
• We are still pretty full on psyker legions.

Black Guard

​Pros

• We don't have a Roman Legion...there's something very ironic about typing that out.
• Chemical weapon specialists to replace the Ghost Walkers. 
• Also, the Walkers were originally to fall to Malal, a road that the Black Guard could return to. 

Cons

• Still not a fan of adding another Pariah or Psyker legion. 

 

Overall, here is my current ranking system:

Black Guard

Undying Sons

Phantom Blades

Void Stalkers

Dawn Bringers 

[Catholic] Legion

 

I would rank the Dawn Bringers higher, but that still hinges on Skal's legion swap and how far along the Warbringers are. (On a personal note, what is with you, Skal, and 'Bringers'?)

[AlphariusOmegon108]

 

 

 

 

Culture: American natives / Aztek, something with shamans, totems, ghosts/ spirits and the like, a spiritual Legion without the Word Bearers zeal and fanatism; demons = wraiths in their culture, totem warriors can fend them off, Primarch acted as high shaman and first wraith hunter

Observed Strategic: Purgation, Pursuit of heretical cults, hunting cults + demons, small & specialized troop formations

So the Void stalkers are the anti-eagle warriors :P

Little irritated to see a legion that comes very close to the eagle warriors, takes away from them in this setting. But oh well, I'm not gonna stop creativity

[bluntblade]

We have some knightly influence in one Clan of the Lions (that one that guards Cadia).

 

Will this Legion de facto become our Tzeentchian faction? I thought we switched to the Stalkers going Malal.

 

Easy, Alpharius. Though it is a reasonable concern. If we start from scratch, maybe we could look at Carthage? I do think the Halcyon Wardens make up for the absence of Roman style Legions quite nicely. We could also consider the Huns, Zulu or Incas.

Edited August 6, 2016 by bluntblade

[simison]

As I've said, I'm really not a fan of the Void Stalkers. Their purpose overlaps with the Lightning Bearers, while their culture overlaps with the Eagle Warriors.

 

 

We have some knightly influence in one Clan of the Lions (that one that guards Cadia).

Will this Legion de facto become our Tzeentchian faction? I thought we switched to the Stalkers going Malal.

If we start from scratch, maybe we could look at Carthage? I do think the Halcyon Wardens make up for the absence of Roman style Legions quite nicely. We could also consider the Huns, Zulu or Incas.

 

It can, but it doesn't have to. Like I said, the more I think about, the more I'd prefer if we don't have the simple spread between the four Chaos gods at the start of the Insurrection. I'd rather Tzeentch or one of the other deities end up with the short end of the straw during the Insurrection and then try to fix that between 30k and 40k. 

 

What I'm imagining is that Tzeentch is left as the weakest of the deities by the end of the Insurrection since he fails to take over a legion. Then, during one of events between 30k and 40k, Tzeentch, after much effort, time, and planning, is able to corrupt a dozen cohorts simultaneously and fuse them into a new legion. They go on a rampage throughout the Imperium and Suzerainty for a few months, achieving several secondary objectives for Tzeentch, such as stealing priceless artifacts & crippling historic enemies of Tzeentch. Actually, one major goal is to cripple the Pariahs, either striking hard at the Warriors of Peace, the Grave Stalkers, or the Wardens of Light. Eventually, they are put down and sent fleeing into the Warp where they rejoin Tzeentch with their spoils. 

 

At that point, the balance becomes similar to what we see in canon 40k, Tzeentch second in strength. 

Edited August 6, 2016 by simison

[Grifftofer]

Wow guys. I leave you alone for 14 hours... ;)

 

 

Will this Legion de facto become our Tzeentchian faction? I thought we switched to the Stalkers going Malal.

It is my understanding that the Grave Stalkers will eventually go Malal's way, likely after K'awil falls for the last time.

 

Is it too late to mention that I originally had two legion ideas? :P

 

My other legion is a fleet-based Legion that would probably work as a counterpoint to Yucahu's Void Eagles. The Scions of the Abyss focus on lightning strikes using 'fast' skimmers and aircraft, preceded by precision lance strikes from orbiting capital ships. They make extensive use of Masters of Signals to coordinate the strikes and 'ground'-based pushes. Their Primarch Manaan is physically slight and wields his army as his weapon, though he carries a pair of exquisite bolt pistols and a rapier when he descends from his command throne onto the field of battle.

 

I have some more bits, but it's nearly 3am here so I should probably go to sleep.

[simison]

Get some sleep. I'm not making a decision for 14-ish hours.

[bluntblade]

Sounds interesting to me, Sim. Man, it's lucky I skipped work today (they're not paying me enough - literally, I'm making about half the minimum wage) otherwise I'd be totally lost

[simison]

Sounds interesting to me, Sim. Man, it's lucky I skipped work today (they're not paying me enough - literally, I'm making about half the minimum wage) otherwise I'd be totally lost

That's right. You weren't there for the early days. This used to be the standard.

[bluntblade]

True. I've only been here just under half a year.

 

On a more mundane note, pending Skal's approval my Bears and Warbringers story is ready to roll.

Edited August 6, 2016 by bluntblade

[~Drakzilla~]

Grave Stalkers have a little Aztec/Mayan influence as well, from what I discussed with Grif a while ago.

Stygian Jackals I believe are based on Aboriginal culture.

 

Some themes I think could fit the setting that I haven't seen in the Canonverse or the BoTLverse:

Tribal African

Futuristic Military (think Halo or Mass Effect)

Retrofuturism (rayguns and jetpacks and chrome, oh my)

Pacific Islander

Voodoo (was mentioned before)

[bluntblade]

The Fire Keepers are Hebrew, I don't know much more than that. Dwarvish influence is creeping in a little, though. Actually I'm picturing them that way more and more. Edited August 6, 2016 by bluntblade

[simison]

True. I've only been here just under half a year.

 

When we were first starting, this happened quite a bit. There were quite a few times where I would spend half an hour to an hour just trying to catch up on pages of new material that sprung up over night.

 

Man, those were the days.

[~Drakzilla~]

So I'm actually a bit on the fence atm... I've had an Imperial Chinese themed lost legion rolling around in my head for several months, but seeing as we already have the Warriors of Peace, I think I should hold off on adding it to the fold for Legion XX.

 

Which brings me to the other thing. If need be, I'd be willing to take the reigns of the Warriors of Peace, since I rather like their whole concept and I'm half Chinese. But I worry that may be biting off more than I can chew, what with all the artwork that needs to be done. So if nobody else takes them, you can put me down as a possibility.

[simison]

So I'm actually a bit on the fence atm... I've had an Imperial Chinese themed lost legion rolling around in my head for several months, but seeing as we already have the Warriors of Peace, I think I should hold off on adding it to the fold for Legion XX.

 

Which brings me to the other thing. If need be, I'd be willing to take the reigns of the Warriors of Peace, since I rather like their whole concept and I'm half Chinese. But I worry that may be biting off more than I can chew, what with all the artwork that needs to be done. So if nobody else takes them, you can put me down as a possibility.

 

At this point in time, all I want to see is a post developing them every month. Just one. Nothing substantial either. A paragraph, an idea, or something. They are still reserved for Book 3. If you think you can manage that pace, by all means. 

 

And you won't have to do it alone. I'll still be around, and, to be brutally honest, Sig & Sanguinius have been doing most of the heavy lifting in the last few months. I'm sure they'd be willing to help you too, if you ask. 

[~Drakzilla~]

Alright, I'll think about it. Definite maybe from me.

[Kelborn]

 

In order to justify runes, rituals and the image of a hunter, who wielded the powers of his enemies, I needed a culture consisting of shamans, ghosts & spirits and totems.

 

So yeah, there are some commonalitie with the Eagle Warriors.

 

While speaking with Mikhal, we came to the conclusion that the african culture could fit as well. Most of all the dark arts of blood magic and voodoo.

 

As I said, Alpha Phase. Everything can change.

 

 

 

Grave Stalkers have a little Aztec/Mayan influence as well, from what I discussed with Grif a while ago.

Stygian Jackals I believe are based on Aboriginal culture.

 

Some themes I think could fit the setting that I haven't seen in the Canonverse or the BoTLverse:

Tribal African

Futuristic Military (think Halo or Mass Effect)

Retrofuturism (rayguns and jetpacks and chrome, oh my)

Pacific Islander

Voodoo (was mentioned before)

 

 

Simison, may I throw in that I already retconned their cultural theme?

As we do have the Aztec AND native American culture covored, Mikhla had the idea to use the Tribal African / Voodoo culture instead of them. And it would fit very well. We could also have the very first "black" Legion.

 

About Dillian vs Icarion.

Again as I said, we can work on him. Of course he won't have the same role, Icarion already has. Maybe he can be assigned to help him, something like a Durotan + Orgrim relationship from the Warcraft movie, with Dillian being the second in hunting down cults, etc.

 

How about Icarion is responsible for demons, etc. and Dilian is something like a "detection dog", having his Legion spread across the Crusade, searching for cults and if demons are involved, Icarion shows up? The Stalkers get suspicious in why they are not allowed to engage the mysterious entities the sons of the Stormborn are fighting against, leaving only the mortals left behind to be hunted down by the Void Stalkers. They get frustrated, bitter and desperate, making them more open to the whisperings of Chaos.

 

I'm not fixed on the fact that Dillian knows everything about the warp! :)

Through his people and teachers on Mardum, he gets to know that there is something but rather instead of knowing that they are demons and powerful gods, for him, they are wraiths, ghosts of the dead becoming real. A more spiritual point of view. Something like this instead of: "I know everything about warp. Let's do this!"

 

He also can be something else instead of the High Priestess. Thinking about the Lovers, how about his personality splits apart during the Crusade / Insurrection?

With Dilian being the "good" guy and diving into the powers of Warp in order to defeat Warp itself, he gets more radical and obsesssed, creating  a more evil and sinister Primarch called "The Sufferer".

 

They could even go Malal instead of Tzeentch as well. My very very very first rough idea was that Dillian was taught by Malal about Chaos.

Would make even a bit more sense than Tzeentch as Malal is against the rest of the Pantheon. I only wrote Tzeentch here as I was not sure if we would cover Malal as he is not really covered in the canon universe as well due to copyrights, etc.

 

Version B

 

I'll abandon the idea of letting them participate in Icarions crusade and leave them as regular Legionnaires, who has close ties with the Lightning Bearers.

 

Then the Insurrection occurs, Dillian gets to know more about the Warp and decides to slay mankind in order to defeat Chaos, turning his Legion into Wraith Hunters and "Totem" Warriors.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Uhm. Standsrd error for the wardens: gaelic names, but south east asian themed. C'mon tonfas poont to indonesia and phillipines.

 

Second to break a lance for dillian: as Kelborn mentioned this was his part for canonverse amd pretty alpha. How much similarities had we at the beginning between our legions? Shieldwall anyone? As he already pointed out the cultural thing could be easily shifted to voodoo and a kreolic legion is nonexistent in our or the canonverse. So what of Dillian? As I saw it he has a destroy them all and humanity is the problem tjing going which we should emphazise on cuz this hasnt beem done before ( no not the alpha legion chaos will destroy themselves-thing). I Think mixing elements from phantom blades and void stalkers togheter where we get a psy orientated infiltration kill all themed legion could benefit us. Why I am fighting for Kelborn? Well first he was only a bit too late or else he would have had a legion. Second before we grant more.2nd legions or thirds we should spread our legions on more shoulders. This should be a community project of many, not of few.who have.their cool.legions togheter. Third.and then I shut up: the guy has a kid, a job.and is still motivated to talk here everyday amd share his input. Ignoring him could result in a decrease of motivation on his side.

 

Normaly you say the more cooks the more.problematic but as I see it: here it is the more cooks, the more different influences, the better. Nothing against Sigi (Damn your take of thr undyijg. Sons could be cool( although I habe to admit...again a noble knight legion...? Wardens? Warbringers? Myself?^^) you sig are heavy invested in the warriors of peace as well and therefore this would be defacto a third main project for you. I think we should help Kelborn to fit his legions into ourverse instead of kicking them. And I am always for the underdog.

 

Okay one more thing...if he gives you a name amd a primarch and simply a background, that is enough?

 

Legion XX: Void Blades

Primarch: Dillian Bondyé

Legion Culture: Kreolic/African/Voodoo

Traits: Sabotage, Multidimensional Attacks, Psykers, Spectral Sight (for Infiltration), Infiltrate& Destroy

Notable Characters: B. Aron Samedi^^

 

This would look completly different than before but still incorporates most.of the things he wanted and it mixed up with the Phantom Blades. Just to show that there.is potential there.

And Kelborn, noe is your take or I WILL TAKE OVER THE LEGION

Damn....you ninjaed me again. I will never ever fight again for you.

Edited August 6, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Kelborn]

I love you, too. ;)

[~Drakzilla~]

Oh yeah, is it possible to change the Void Stalkers name? Seeing as we already have Void Eagles and Grave Stalkers.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Liar!!!

 

Go vote for

 

Legion XX: Spectral Blades

Primarch: Dillian Bondyé

Legion Culture: Kreolic/African/Voodoo

Traits: Sabotage, Multidimensional Attacks, Psykers, Spectral Sight (for Infiltration), Infiltrate& Destroy

Notable Characters: B. Aron Samedi^^

Alright, I'll think about it. Definite maybe from me.

I did it already for him as Kelborn is so damn slow if he doesn't ninja.me^^ Edited August 6, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Kelborn]

Sorry that I do have a real life. ^^

 

*edit*

 

I must admit that I like the idea of psyker assassin stealth teams. ^^

 

A mix between both of them can be easily done.

Using the culture and Primarch of the Void Stalkers and the combat doctrine from the Phantom Blades.

 

Small, specialized task forces with spectral sight and a "oh :cuss" tool being the "totem" (need another name for them) warriors, who could use their empowered runes to go berzerk if necessary.

 

With overall voodoo, ancestor worshipping, african culture.

 

Yeah, I like it. :D

Edited August 6, 2016 by Kelborn

[MikhalLeNoir]

Sorry that I do have a real life. ^^

Me too. I should check out of my hotel and fight here for you. Go spectral blades. Heyyyy that is my bag you are throwing out!!!!

 

 

 

Go spectral blades. For bondyé. !!!