General Discussion

[Chief Captain Redd]

As far as falling to specific gods I would like to point out that there are Traitors amongst loyalist legions that have not found a path yet; and others like the Traitor Iron Bears whom have.

 

And yes I've been following along through out they day and this pace is very reminiscent of when we were on AoD.

[Kelborn]

After arriving at work, I thought about how the Stalkers' story could develop.

 

Dillian and later his Legion can see what is happening out there. That those wraiths / ghosts are created by mankind through their desires, emotions, etc. Because of their spectral sight they could even bare witness to how a demon feasts upon human souls during a ritual or something like this without knowing that it is a demon. They only get a small glimpse of the greater puzzle.

 

Their spectral sight can also be used in combat, enabling them to see through cover and strike at the right spot with artillery or rad weaponry. BUT not all Legionnaires get this special ability as that would be too imbalanced.

 

Would suggest that Dillian is the only one with this sight at first. Through the crusade and the things they'd witness, he starts to change his Legions to engage this new threat separate from his brothers, forming the Wraith Hunters.

 

As he does not know in what to believe anymore, Dillian separates from his brothers, becoming a pure loner. In his self proclaimed isolation he comes to the fateful conclusion of eradicating mankind to defeat Chaos. (Malal influences might be possible here)

 

Therefore, he informs his Legion and together, they join Icarions Insurrection and the other traitor Legions willingly to further engage the powers beyond the mortal realm; the end justifies the means. Officially they joined them as they were corrupted as well. Within the Legion, they are working on a far greater goal than rebellion: the ultimate defeat of Chaos.

 

There is a video which shows very well my intention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUfOlvlC6Eo&feature=youtu.be

 

As the link doesn't work here, I would ask you to have a look on youtube.

Search Harbringers: Illidan

That video explains very well what I had in mind with Dillian. ^^

Edited August 6, 2016 by Kelborn

[Slips]

My only real complaint(s) would be:

• It sounds like a Legion of literal Warcraft Demon Hunters, Fighting fire with fire, ritual blindness and spectral sight, etc.
• At least be a bit more Original in the name of the Primarch Swapping 1 letter in Illidan makes the connection to the source material all the more evident.

Its a good framework but add more to it and try to make it more unique.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Kelborn]

See your point in here, Slips and you're right.

 

His name is not final (yet again: alpha stage) and can be changed.

 

To be honest, we ALL have specific warriors / cultures / periods of time in mind when creating our stuff.

 

Iron Snakes by Dan Abnett: main theme can be transferred to the movie 300

Black Templars: medieval crusaders

Space Wolves: you know it

Our own legions are deriving from different cultures, etc.

 

 

So why not using a certain warrior caste from an existing franchise to use for this as well?

 

Someone could even use their Death Knights and create a similar chaos warband of Nurgle. ^^

 

Of course it reminds heavily of Blizzards demon hunters. Even if I'm just using their core facts (fighting fire with fire, spectral sight) it reminds of them.

 

I'll try to make them more unique. I've just started them a couple of days ago and haven't worked on them since my last post about their Primarch in July. In mixing in some themes and bits from the Phantom Blades can turn it into something special.

 

And please keep in mind: I'm not intending to create a whole Legion of Demon Hunters. They are a special unit formation within the Legion. They will have way less psykers than the Thousand Sons for example. Just their librarians. Just their elite. Just a few dozens / maybe hundreds in a Legion of thousands.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Kelborn

[MikhalLeNoir]

Well an origin could be cool where the legion. Was halted back because of yhe geneseed they turn blind. And went crazy for the things they saw and it was deemed thst they are to crazy to fight i. The great crusade until their primarch arrived to show them hkw to use the spectral sight to see both and that they can fight even if they are blind. Kind of matrix thing

[Doctor Perils]

The problem isn't taking influence from WoW, it's more that their are too many parallels.

 

Plus, a culture from an invented franchise cannot by its very nature have half the depth and diversity a true-world culture has.

[Kelborn]

Wait, not the Demon Hunters are their culture.

They are just a small part of it, please avoid to focus on just this specific unit. As I said: just a few of many.

 

And there are many parallels because it's not out fleshed right now. I got the frame for them. Nothing more, nothing less. ^^

 

Their culture derives from African tribes mixed with some voodoo rituals of the Caribbean isles, having runes on their armor, being very spiritual, revering their ancestors, protecting their souls against wraiths and so on.

 

And through this believe and their rituals, they enhanced their warriors.

 

Though I'm enjoying this discussion, I'm just seeing myself repeating over and over again that this whole concept is in a alpha phase.

It seems to me that you're thinking that everything is written in stone. That's why I'm usually uploading stuff until it is completed like my Storm Riders and Phantom Blades.

 

Seriously, we don't even have decided with which Legion we would like to continue. I just wanted to present my idea and how it could fit in our project. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

It's naturally that there are some corners or bits which will need to be worked on.

 

I'm loving this project and I'm liking the team. I would love to contribute with a Legion of my own, either it is the Void Stalkers or the Phantom Blades. Which Legion it shall be has to be decided by simison or via a poll. Afterwards, we can work on it together. At first I will write down their overall frame including culture, homeworld, bit of backstory, etc. and present it to you to work on it together.

 

For now, I'll stop writing and discuss here. I'm at work and I'm spending precious time to seemingly defend my idea. That shouldn't be the case. Got other things to do.

 

I will wait until a decision is made. If I'll be chosen, it would make my day. If not for (sorry) hilarious reasons, I'll withdraw to work on House Harkon again.

 

That being sad,

 

have a nice day

Edited August 6, 2016 by Kelborn

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hmmm, don't hang on the dillian wow reference please.

 

Guys as he pointed oit this was the starting point.

 

But we all started somewhere. On first sight the berserkers of uran look like worldeaters mixed with nightlords. Over time this was ruled out. Crimson lions looked like 300 to me. Halcyon wardens and alex looked like alexander the great. The wardens of light stsrted as asian legion and were mixed up with the lightning bearers. The warriors of peace looked to me like the wardens of light. Asian martial artist pariahs. But all thst developed differently. We have a motivated guy here who has no legion intil now. That he make soem mistakes and has some parrallels or sharing points is clear. But it can be ruled out. Same as the noble knights undying sons and the iron warrior like black guards pariahs. It can all be shaped to our likes.

 

And as stated before their cultural heritsge would be kreolic african voodoo. Am i the only one who sees that?

 

And look at his dominion of storms project. There you see thst he can pull the things off we need and thst he is open for critic and improvement.

Edited August 6, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Sigismund229]

Thank you so much. My eyes were hurting just from glancing at that tiny text.

 

Thanks Skal, have you managed to find someone to take over the Void Eagles? And how finished are the Warbringers?

 

I will make my decision tomorrow morning right around when I made today's announcement. This is where the legion candidates stand with me.

 

[Catholic Legion]

Pros

• They could fill the hole left by the Word Bearers, a true religious legion that would struggle to avoid the Emperor's ire and the Great Crusade's overt Atheism. That would be a treasure trove of conflict, whether macro, mezzo, or micro.
• As we move from the Insurrection to the End Times, this legion, if it survives the Great Crusade and the Insurrection would find itself ascending in power and influence as the galaxy becomes more religious. Yet, there could easily be quite a bit of conflict as the Ecclesiarchy and the Imperial cult take their destined places within the Imperium.
• Surprisingly, we really don't have a straighforward European Knight culture. In canon, the Dark Angels fills this role, while the Imperial Fists and the Blood Angels have elements of this. Even with the other warrior cultures, it's strange not having this warrior culture represented amongst our ranks.

Cons

• The Emperor. Why on Terra would he allow this legion to continue existing? The Word Bearers were at least worshipping him. But Catholicism/Christianity is definitely an enemy he has declared war on, as seen in The Last Church.
• The next big issue is us as a group. Is this something we are mature enough to handle without verbal explosions going off?
• In canon, there's one major psyker legion, and two other minor psyker legions (Blood Angels & White Scars). Here, we still have the Thousand Sons, but we also have the Halcyon Wardens and the Lightning Bearers. Do we really need another psyker legion?

Dawn Bringers

Pros

• We really are lacking in Lawful Good legions and straightforward 'good guy' Primarchs.
• We don't have a Persion culture represented.
• Plenty of room to develop them.

Cons

• The Indian culture is partially represented by the Halcyon Wardens.

Void Stalkers

Pros

• Blind Primarch is a cool idea.
• Another idea for an overtly spiritual legion to replace the Word Bearers.

Cons

• There really is a lot of overlap between here and the 1st legion. I've already mentioned the Primarch similarities, but both legions have strong anti-Chaos traits. The difference is here in BotL, it is Icarion who is charged with cleansing the galaxy.
• We already have an Aztec legion.

Phantom Blades

Pros

• Fills in the assassin space marine niche.

Cons

• Do we actually need an Alpha Legion equivalent?

Undying Sons

Pros

• Again, missing Persian culture.
• Twin Primarch idea offers plenty of story possibilities. Especially if one goes Traitor and the other goes Loyalist or some other kind of split loyalty.

Cons

• Again, we have an anti-Chaos legion already.
• We are still pretty full on psyker legions.

Black Guard

​Pros

• We don't have a Roman Legion...there's something very ironic about typing that out.
• Chemical weapon specialists to replace the Ghost Walkers.
• Also, the Walkers were originally to fall to Malal, a road that the Black Guard could return to.

Cons

• Still not a fan of adding another Pariah or Psyker legion.

Overall, here is my current ranking system:

Black Guard

Undying Sons

Phantom Blades

Void Stalkers

Dawn Bringers

[Catholic] Legion

 

I would rank the Dawn Bringers higher, but that still hinges on Skal's legion swap and how far along the Warbringers are. (On a personal note, what is with you, Skal, and 'Bringers'?)

On the point of not being keen on adding another pysker or pariah legion, I did consider the idea of the Black Guard also having pyskers but their pyskers bodies being at war with themselves(like Angron's is) a constant push and pull between their gene seed and their minds. I discarded it but I could weel it out again as it could be quite interesting.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Sigi, just one question: you really think you can do it? You have the lions, are a building force bejind the warriors of peace, are the chief writer of the eagle warriors and now the XXth? That makes 4 legion out of 18 where you have direct influence too. That is a lot. Not going against your work as it is very good, but this is a lot of influence for a single person. 4 legions are a lot, even if you don't have the last word on two of them.

[Sigismund229]

Sigi, just one question: you really think you can do it? You have the lions, are a building force bejind the warriors of peace, are the chief writer of the eagle warriors and now the XXth? That makes 4 legion out of 18 where you have direct influence too. That is a lot. Not going against your work as it is very good, but this is a lot of influence for a single person. 4 legions are a lot, even if you don't have the last word on two of them.

Like you pointed out, for two of them I'm far from the last say. I'm just the writer. I write what I'm wanted to write and then check it with AO108 or sim who then tell me if, yes it's or no rewrite it and here's what I want in it that you didn't put in(while this does sometimes lead to me crying in the corner because I need to junk a bunch of fluff I worked hard on, hey ho that's an occupational hazard)

I believe I can take on a 2nd personal legion without stunting my ability to write for the other three, especially seeing as a lot of the Crimson Lions stuff is done(ah the benefits of insomnia)

Edited August 6, 2016 by Sigismund229

[MikhalLeNoir]

Disclaimer: no insult here

 

Yeah, my concern is only thst too much power in your hands. If for any reason you pull out (burnout, girlfriend or school), we have a big mess. To many threads of destiny run togheter in your hands. Imho that is too much, even if you point out otherwise. Even now you are one of the most important people here and we would emphasize this even more. I am quite vary because of other fan projects who fail utterly or run out because members saw grow out of it.

 

Simison, how long is it possible to pitch something? Some might be on work or on vacation and it might take time.

Edited August 6, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Sigismund229]

Don't worry, no insult taken :)

 

I see your worry Mikhal. However, I did actually take time out from BotL about a month or so ago because of exams and(if I'm honest) a bit of burnout(after all I had just written most of the Iron Bears and Grave Stalkers fluff). In my absence the project just kept grinding steadily forwards.

[bluntblade]

We could use another fluff writer, especially one who's fallen in love with the Void Eagles, Wardens of Light and Warriors of Peace.

[Chief Captain Redd]

When Simison picks out a new Legion I would be more than happy to chip in fleshing out the Legion's concept and culture, I'm not great with war prose, but I would like to think I'm pretty good at developing characters and giving depth and personality.

[AlphariusOmegon108]

I want sigy to not take up another legion. The risk is too big. I would LOVE to see Kelborn do a african oriented legion...

[~Drakzilla~]

Yeah, my concern is only thst too much power in your hands.

 

Too many legions under one person? Almost sounds like the start of a certain Heresy...

 

Anyways, Kelborn has my vote. Don't know if we actually get to vote, but still.

[Sigismund229]

I want sigy to not take up another legion. The risk is too big. I would LOVE to see Kelborn do a african oriented legion...

But...but...what if I get bored out of lack of things to do when I'm trying to fall asleep? :p

[AlphariusOmegon108]

Bluntblade is the perfect candidate. African legion can give us a Baron Samedi primarch (would be sooo rad) and give voodoo marines.. perfect for this setting

[Kelborn]

@ Sigi: Counting sheep?

Edited August 6, 2016 by Kelborn

[Sigismund229]

 

Yeah, my concern is only thst too much power in your hands.

 

Too many legions under one person? Almost sounds like the start of a certain Heresy...

 

Anyways, Kelborn has my vote. Don't know if we actually get to vote, but still.

I will have you know that my loyalty is absoloute and there is no danger of me rebelling against Terra.

 

Yet...

[bluntblade]

Oh, you tempt me with the Baron Samedi thing... but I'd struggle to build a Legion properly, let alone whilst working on fluff and stories for everything else

[AlphariusOmegon108]

Me and Mikhail would LOVE to help you with the base. I am VERY certain you could do the rest, as you have done with other legions. But the base we can help :)

[Sigismund229]

My sons. We set out as a part of this Great Crusade from Terra. There will be a time for peace but that time is not now. For now, put iron in your souls and do away with all sympathy and sentiment. I have no use for it. Paint your gauntlets red with your enemies blood and coat your armour in the ashes of fallen worlds and remember that in war there is only one crime that is failure and weakness! We fight tyrants and zealots. Such foes are fit for only one thing and that is death by any means necessary. We will cast down their temples and palaces, built upon the broken backs of humanity and paint our armour black with their ashes. We will be branded monsters for this, make no mistake. But we will be monsters so that others need not be for we have an unbreakable will and know that their can only be victory or annihilation

Dievas Vils upon his unification with the II^nd legion.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Sigismund229

[bluntblade]

Me and Mikhail would LOVE to help you with the base. I am VERY certain you could do the rest, as you have done with other legions. But the base we can help :)

If I'm given a base to help flesh out, that could work