General Discussion

[AlphariusOmegon108]

I will start tommorow night then. How many you want? I hope 15 eagle warrior veterans should be sufficient? I will keep em clean of heraldy, so with color shades etc they can pass as any legion

[bluntblade]

I'd say make it very clear that they're EW. Whole point is to show off your work in creating the Legion :p I suggest using whatever will make a nice, dramatic shot.

 

Annoying thing is, I am handy with a camera but not in a position to do anything beyond Photoshop.

[Sigismund229]

Been doing a rewrite of the CL's structure and organization. Seeing as Skalpynock said that he found the previous one confusing(and I can see where he was coming from) I wanted to check that this one is comprehensible before getting into the Librarius/Chaplaincy and the Apothecarion. 

 

Organization&Structure of the Crimson Lions

Of all the legions, it is the Crimson Lions who have deviated furthest from what could be considered the standard structure and hierarchy of the legions. Based on the structure of the barbarian tribes of their homeworld, the III^rd legion’s structure is, in its own way, every bit as confusing and hierarchical as that of the Warbringers but with none of the similarities to the usual organization of a legion. In addition to this, a warrior’s rank within the Crimson Lions does not always show how much authority he possesses, for the son of Mycenae respect skill at arms and courage more than rank and have a profound respect for any who have displayed these two qualities.

 

The largest units employed by the Crimson Lions are the Clans. Unlike the more common Grand Company or Chapter, the Clans have no fixed size. Instead, their numbers constantly fluctuate depending upon their leader’s personal charisma and the Clan’s martial success meaning that a Clan’s size can be anywhere between a few thousand to many tens of thousands of legionnaires. In another variation from standard organization, the Clans are not numbered. Instead, each is named after its founder.

 

At the head of each Clan is a Myrvallen. Translating from Mycenaean as “War Leader”, each of the Myrvalli is a warrior and tactician of enormous skill, each being among the finest warriors to be found in all the legions. The process by which a Myrvallen is selected will sometimes vary from Clan to Clan but by and large they are chosen by an election from amongst the warriors of the Clan. Instead of the usual show of hands, this is done by each warrior in the Clan throwing his weapon at the feet of his preferred candidate. This is a symbolic act, signifying that the warrior will help the candidate defend his “right” to the Clan’s leadership with his weapon if he must. If any one candidate has an overwhelmingly large number of swords around him then he is made Myrvallen. However, more frequently several candidates will have an almost equal number of swords and so the matter will then be decided by a series of trials of endurance, strength and courage, with the victor of these trials being made new Myrvallen. On occasion, the loser of these trials will break away from the Clan whose leadership he lost and instead found his own Clan, supported by the warriors of the Clan who supported him rather than the victorious candidate. However, this is rare as the Crimson Lions respect strength and courage above all and in order to be victorious in the trials, the new Myrvallen will have to have demonstrated these qualities in abundance, meaning that Myrvalli who form a Clan in this way need to be charismatic in the extreme.

 

Beneath the Myrvallen is the Clan’s Dryos and the various Rixi of the Clan. The Rixi are the Myrvallen’s subordinates, each one the leader of a brotherhood. The equivalent of a company in another legion, brotherhoods, like clans, have no fixed size and their size is dependent on the Rix’s charisma and success in war. However, unlike the clans, when a Rix dies his successor is chosen by the Clan’s Myrvallen, frequently, although not always, from amongst the former Rix’s chosen warriors. By contrast, the Clan’s Dryos is selected by Hectarion himself. Unlike the Myrvalli and Rixi, who are all leaders of men, the Dryos of a clan commands no warriors. Instead, his duty is to act as an advisor to the Myrvallen, safeguard the traditions of the Clan, oversee the selection of a new Myrvallen upon the death of his predecessor and enforce the laws of the legion within the Clan. Because of these duties, the Dryos is frequently a veteran warrior of proven wisdom and martial skill. While the Dryos of a Clan is not officially superior to the Rixi and is officialy inferior to the Myrvalli, it is not uncommon for a Myrvallen to defer to his Dryos in some matters and the Rixi always treat the Dryos with great respect and obey any order he might give. However, the Dryos will never command men as his place is at the Myrvallen’s side, both in war and peace.

 

In addition to the Dryos, a Myrvallen(and indeed a Rix) will always be accompanied by his chosen warriors, his pezhetari. These warriors are frequently compared to the veterans found in other legions but this comparison is misleading for a warrior is not required to be a veteran to be inducted into this esteemed brotherhood. Instead all he required to do is catch his Rix or Myrvallen’s eye with some feat of arms and it is then up to the Rix or Myrvallen in question whether to take the warrior into his pezhetari. Because of this, it is as for warriors in their lord’s pezhetari to have been chosen from the ranks of young and hot-headed getae as the veteran warriors of the galloglaich. However, while the role of pezhetari is primarily martial it is not solely martial. They also serve their lord as emissaries for diplomatic missions, administrators if their lord rules over a section of the Dominion and commanders of expeditions which their lord is unable to oversee personally.

 

The vast bulk of a Clan or brotherhood’s manpower will be composed of the Trodaiar. These are warriors who have had their youthful belligerence tempered in the fires of war by service in the getae. While the Trodaiar are often found forming the backbone of the Crimson Lion’s battle line in the shield wall, they are equally capable of turning their hands to any task, from wielding the heavy weapons confined the devastator squads in other legions to scouting out their surroundings using the skills they learnt as tribesmen on Mycenae. Leading them are the Kahoier, warriors of a rank roughly equivalent to that of sergeants in another legion. Like all officers of the III^rd the Kahoier wear a torc in addition to or in preference of a crest to signify their rank and they are all warriors of proven skill in war and it is for this reason that they are chosen by their Rix to succeed their predecessor.

 

In addition to the Trodaiar and Kahoier, there are also the getae, sperothai and galloglaich. Of the lowest rank are the getae. The youngest of the Crimson Lions, the getae have yet to have their youthful belligerence tempered by experience. Because of this, they are equipped with jump packs and are ever in the vanguard ahead of the shield wall honing their skill in battle and unleashing their youthful eagerness for battle upon their foes. In this they are led by Sperothai. Like the Trodaiar, the Sperothai have experienced many battles. Unlike the Trodaiar, the Sperothai never grew out of their youthful lust for glory and belligerence and so continue to serve alongside the getae as sergeant figures, directing the getae’s efforts and watching over them even as they themselves revel in the joy of being in the vanguard. At the other end of the spectrum are the galloglaich. Veterans of a hundred battles who have lost many of the brothers with whom they started service, the galloglaich form themselves into squads of “greybeards” and fight at the flanks of their lord’s pezhetari, wielding the fearsome Mycenaean long-axe or falcan blade with their shield slung over their shoulder as they fight to ensure that their tale has a glorious ending and providing an anchor around which the shield wall can form.

 

Outside of this structure are the Sagartaith, Leighi and Cocidii. The simplest of these to explain are the Cocidii. Ordinary warriors, the Cocidii do not pledge themselves to any Clan. Instead, they travel between the Clans as they wish, seeking out the warzones in which they believe there is most glory to be won. Once in the warzone, they seek out the greatest enemy heroes they can find and attempt to slay them. 

 

Is this one understandable? 

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hey ho. I had an Idea: Do you guys know 40K Theories? Well it is a dear youtubechannel to me and they have a few listeners. They have a section where they show fanmade projects. Should we approach him so that he talk about our project? Maybe a short introduxtion and if we have a bool finished more about that, eventually introducing.our legions? And finally to advertise our search for helpful hands like authors and artists?

 

I think we couls use more channel s than simply board requests

[AlphariusOmegon108]

Got one unit of Eagle Warriors very close to done. Also did two tanks. Just needs osl and done

[bluntblade]

You're a machine

[Sigismund229]

Hey ho. I had an Idea: Do you guys know 40K Theories? Well it is a dear youtubechannel to me and they have a few listeners. They have a section where they show fanmade projects. Should we approach him so that he talk about our project? Maybe a short introduxtion and if we have a bool finished more about that, eventually introducing.our legions? And finally to advertise our search for helpful hands like authors and artists?

 

I think we couls use more channel s than simply board requests

I've heard of them. I'd say it couldn't do us any harm

[Raktra]

I'm up for that. More reach is always good.

[AlphariusOmegon108]

You're a machine

you underestimate me xD

[Sigismund229]

So I know I shouldn't be thinking any further than the Insurrection given that we've just started it but I was thinking about Hectarion's death/dissapearance and had this idea.

998M.31-001M.32

A xenos species known only as the Nomads attack the north of the Imperium. For years they rampage across the Imperium's northern border, leaving worlds burning in their wake until finally, the Crimson Lions and Wardens of Light unite with their successors and, led by Hectarion Mycenor, destroy the Nomads upon the world of (). While this ends the Nomads threat, the price payed by the space marines was steep and it also led to the dissapearance/death of the last living loyalist primarch, Hectarion Mycenor. The threat the Nomads had posed prompted the 3rd Founding.

 

I also had 3 ideas for Hectarion's end.

 

I) He dissapears during the battle with the Nomads a la Rogal Dorn. His body is never found and all that the Crimson Lions are able to recover is his shield, helmet and left hand.

 

II) He dies in battle with the Nomads, being killed in the defence of the Imperium. His body is buried on Mycenae but each of the 13 worlds which the Crimson Lions fleet stopped by on its way back to Mycenae has a monument to him built and each becomes a site of pilgrimage in the centuries to come.

 

III) Following the battle he declares that his time in the Imperium is done and that it does not need him anymore. Taking his chosen warriors with him, he vanishes into the north of the galaxy, stating "When the sun of mankind is beginning to set and the wolves howl in the night as they close in for the kill, I shall return and we shall roar and rage against oblivion one final time". The Crimson Lions and their successors believe he went beyond the reach of the Astronomicon in search of the Nomads homeworld, hoping that by finding it and destroying it he could wash out the blood on his hands from the deaths of Daer'dd, Alexandros, Pionius and the Emperor(which he begins to blame himself for in the years and centuries after the Insurrection).

[simison]

Again, I'm going to limit myself to just a couple of posts for now.

 

I like it. I think we should go a step higher and tie this into the fall of the Jade General. While the Imperium is beating back the Nomad assault, the Suzerainty celebrates the creation of a new Primarch, only for things to go horribly wrong a couple of days after its birth. So, while Hectarion is rallying the Imperium against the Nomads, the Suzerainty is desperately trying to contain the 21st Primarch and an army of cloned marines. It'll be the first of the 'galaxy-shaker' events occupying the space between 30k and 40k, knocking out at least two Primarchs. Let's plan for a two-book series, one for the Imperium and one for the Suzerainty. 

 

Now, I don't know if Hectarion is the last living Loyalist at this point. We'll see where the story leads us on this point.

 

For Hectarion's final fate, I'll leave that to you. 

 

Out of the canon 19 Primarchs: 6 are Daemon Princes (7, maybe, if one of the Alpha Twins is corrupted), 4 (or 5, if we count Alpharius) are outright dead, leaving 9 Primarchs indisposed, one way or another. Overall, the End Times can and probably will feature 15 Primarchs returning.

 

Out of BotL Primarchs so far: Alex, Icarion, Daer'dd & K'awil are our dead Primarchs so far. Travier, Raktra, Koschei and Morro are our Daemon Princes. Gwal's the only Loyalist whose Fate has been described (he vanishes into the Webway). 

 

That leaves 9 Primarch fates to determine. 

 

While I can be persuaded otherwise, I'm still planning for this to event to be the death of the Jade General, either as the first casualty of the [clone war] (backstabbed by the 21st Primarch) or the last casualty of the war, where he redeems his greatest failure with his life as he and the False Primarch kill each other in combat. 

 

That's 5 Dead Primarchs, 4 Daemon Princes, and 1 busy in the Webway. Leaving 8.

 

Which means that, as it is currently, we have 5 Primarchs slated to return in time for the End Times (and two secret ones, one dependent on the Emperor's power). 

 

This is all to say, feel free to take your pick, Sig. There's plenty of room for Hectarion to die or to return at the Eleventh Hour. Personally, I have an idea and would like to see Hectarion return to fulfill it.

[bluntblade]

You're a machine

you underestimate me xD

You're a small Forge World.

[Sigismund229]

Again, I'm going to limit myself to just a couple of posts for now.

 

I like it. I think we should go a step higher and tie this into the fall of the Jade General. While the Imperium is beating back the Nomad assault, the Suzerainty celebrates the creation of a new Primarch, only for things to go horribly wrong a couple of days after its birth. So, while Hectarion is rallying the Imperium against the Nomads, the Suzerainty is desperately trying to contain the 21st Primarch and an army of cloned marines. It'll be the first of the 'galaxy-shaker' events occupying the space between 30k and 40k, knocking out at least two Primarchs. Let's plan for a two-book series, one for the Imperium and one for the Suzerainty.

 

Now, I don't know if Hectarion is the last living Loyalist at this point. We'll see where the story leads us on this point.

 

For Hectarion's final fate, I'll leave that to you.

 

Out of the canon 19 Primarchs: 6 are Daemon Princes (7, maybe, if one of the Alpha Twins is corrupted), 4 (or 5, if we count Alpharius) are outright dead, leaving 9 Primarchs indisposed, one way or another. Overall, the End Times can and probably will feature 15 Primarchs returning.

 

Out of BotL Primarchs so far: Alex, Icarion, Daer'dd & K'awil are our dead Primarchs so far. Travier, Raktra, Koschei and Morro are our Daemon Princes. Gwal's the only Loyalist whose Fate has been described (he vanishes into the Webway).

 

That leaves 9 Primarch fates to determine.

 

While I can be persuaded otherwise, I'm still planning for this to event to be the death of the Jade General, either as the first casualty of the [clone war] (backstabbed by the 21st Primarch) or the last casualty of the war, where he redeems his greatest failure with his life as he and the False Primarch kill each other in combat.

 

That's 5 Dead Primarchs, 4 Daemon Princes, and 1 busy in the Webway. Leaving 8.

 

Which means that, as it is currently, we have 5 Primarchs slated to return in time for the End Times (and two secret ones, one dependent on the Emperor's power).

 

This is all to say, feel free to take your pick, Sig. There's plenty of room for Hectarion to die or to return at the Eleventh Hour. Personally, I have an idea and would like to see Hectarion return to fulfill it.

I'm far from decided about Hectarion's fate. While I'd quite like to have him return at the end times I think I'll wait and see how the cards fall first(after all, a heroic last stand in which he dies, heralding an end to the age of the primarchs would be awesome). Atm I leaning towards a combo of 1 and 3 where he dissapears on the battlefield but then appears to the CL's Chief Librarian in a vision to announce the whole "I'll be back for the End Times" shtick.

 

Perhaps we could tie in the Nomads and the 21st primarch further? Perhaps the Jade General knew the technology required wasn't complete but was driven to it in desperation as the Nomads ran rampant through the Suzerainty's north?

[bluntblade]

I suggest we keep it to the Jade General failing because of his inability to understand the importance of the intangible, spiritual aspect of his own creation.

[Chief Captain Redd]

Quick question for my BotL Brethren; do you think I should use more Anishinaabeg terms for my Bear's wargear?

I realize I use iron and blade a lot for things but that's simply because that's what they referred to when translated; I was curious if you ever thought maybe if I started using more native words if it helps break up the monotony and not fall into Wolfie McWolfenstein territory. I am worried as some Odawa words are very long, telephone having almost 50 characters IIRC.

[Kelborn]

Concerning the discussion about End Times and Primarchs:

 

Daemon Primarchs: Fulgrim, Perturabo, Mortarion, Angron, Magnus, Lorgar and Alpharius (maybe) = 6-7

Lost Primarchs (somewhere hanging around): Jaghatai, Leman, Vulkan, Corax, Johnson (official) =5

Primarchs thought dead but who will make a return: Dorn (yes, it was stated that Dorn lives!) & Guilliman = 2

Dead Primarchs: Ferrus, Alpharius (maybe), Sanguinius, Horus, Curze = 4-5

 

Plus the Purged & Forgotten.

 

Think that it was also stated that even the dead ones could possibly return AND that Primarchs might lead other forces than before / change sides.

 

That leaves us with a potential to create weird and crazy ?! producing scenario. ^^

 

Concerning 40ktheories: I'm up for it as well.

 

That leaves us with

 

 

*edit*

 

AAAND concerning possible campaigns. I would be happy to present some of you the frame of a campaign I'd started to work at for my Dominion of Storms project. Can easily be transferred to our 'verse as well.

It includes Knights, Chapters, Chaos cults, Chaos Marines, a whole xenos race falling to chaos and so on. If some of you are interested in it, I can send it to you via mail or upload it here as well. :)

Edited August 10, 2016 by Kelborn

[MikhalLeNoir]

So I know I shouldn't be thinking any further than the Insurrection given that we've just started it but I was thinking about Hectarion's death/dissapearance and had this idea.

998M.31-001M.32

A xenos species known only as the Nomads attack the north of the Imperium. For years they rampage across the Imperium's northern border, leaving worlds burning in their wake until finally, the Crimson Lions and Wardens of Light unite with their successors and, led by Hectarion Mycenor, destroy the Nomads upon the world of (). While this ends the Nomads threat, the price payed by the space marines was steep and it also led to the dissapearance/death of the last living loyalist primarch, Hectarion Mycenor. The threat the Nomads had posed prompted the 3rd Founding.

I also had 3 ideas for Hectarion's end.

I) He dissapears during the battle with the Nomads a la Rogal Dorn. His body is never found and all that the Crimson Lions are able to recover is his shield, helmet and left hand.

II) He dies in battle with the Nomads, being killed in the defence of the Imperium. His body is buried on Mycenae but each of the 13 worlds which the Crimson Lions fleet stopped by on its way back to Mycenae has a monument to him built and each becomes a site of pilgrimage in the centuries to come.

III) Following the battle he declares that his time in the Imperium is done and that it does not need him anymore. Taking his chosen warriors with him, he vanishes into the north of the galaxy, stating "When the sun of mankind is beginning to set and the wolves howl in the night as they close in for the kill, I shall return and we shall roar and rage against oblivion one final time". The Crimson Lions and their successors believe he went beyond the reach of the Astronomicon in search of the Nomads homeworld, hoping that by finding it and destroying it he could wash out the blood on his hands from the deaths of Daer'dd, Alexandros, Pionius and the Emperor(which he begins to blame himself for in the years and centuries after the Insurrection).

I have a 4) option. If hec is the last remaining loyalist primarch then maybe something happens during the nomads campaign. Maybe they announce something horrible during it and hec is not leaving for their homeplanet (well maybe he is to get answers) but he is of tk search for his lost brothers to bring them back ao that they can fight during the endtimes when the chaos tyranorks threaten the empire^^.

 

The wardens successor help gladly. Bit the wardens of light are disbanded, then with rhe death of the emperor, alex and icarion Gwal decides that the light is lost until he finds a way ti revert thinfs that happened or find a remedy. So the auccessor chapters have close ties but the wardens as we know them are not existent after the insurrection. At least that was my plan. A closer unforgiving band of cohorts. Bit i wod call them the "unforgiven"^^. Because they waitet too long. Of course they are united as wardens of light at the end times when gwal returns to destroy the rotting imperium^^

 

The secret ones? Alex and Icarion?

 

And for the false primarch...will he be a complete new invention or do we ask someone elsw to introduxe his lost primarch as the false primarch. If we ask someone from outside, I have the observer with his conquerer in mind. Somehow his whole figure fits to a false primarch who goes out of control.

 

 

And does anybody know how to contact 40k theories?

 

 

And sim, you sure that drak will let jade die? ;)

Edited August 10, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[~Drakzilla~]

Boo! Not on my watch. The Jade General will live on, and fuse with the new primarch to become a SUPER primarch!! And then he will conquer the galaxy and become best friends with the necrons and singlehandedly defeat the Chaos gods!!1!

 

Nah, but in all seriousness, Sim and I have discussed Jade's death. I think it would be rather fitting for the character, almost a Frankenstein moment. And hey, if you love something, you have to set it free. And possibly let it get killed by a genetically engineered posthuman demigod.

Edited August 10, 2016 by drakzilla

[Kelborn]

Oh please name this Uber-Primarch VOLTRON! :D

[MikhalLeNoir]

Ohhhh. I like the superprimarch story more. Dr. Jade and mr Hyde

 

 

Voltron has a nice ring to it. But how about

 

 

MEGATON!!!

 

 

or simply: Radio active mom^^

Edited August 10, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[AlphariusOmegon108]

You're a machine

you underestimate me xD

You're a small Forge World.

All done now :)

[Sigismund229]

Quick question for my BotL Brethren; do you think I should use more Anishinaabeg terms for my Bear's wargear?

I realize I use iron and blade a lot for things but that's simply because that's what they referred to when translated; I was curious if you ever thought maybe if I started using more native words if it helps break up the monotony and not fall into Wolfie McWolfenstein territory. I am worried as some Odawa words are very long, telephone having almost 50 characters IIRC.

Personally I think that would be a good idea(provided the name doesn't then stretch on for 50 characters). That's why I started using so many gaelic and greek terms for various ranks within the CL, to avoid the whole wolfy mcwolfenstein deal. 

[bluntblade]

It's a sensible step

[Nomus Sardauk]

@MikhalLeNoir: Not gonna lie brother, I misread that as Megatron at first.

[MikhalLeNoir]

@MikhalLeNoir: Not gonna lie brother, I misread that as Megatron at first. :lol:

Wouldn't be the worst but I thought they fit better for Necrons. Megatron, Galvatron and finally Unicron.

 

The resurrected Emperor (after Gwal aka HeMan raises his sword and says the magic words stabs him to death [yeah folks that is the remedy he learnt in the black.libary] calls himself then Optimus Prime.

Alex comes back as Bumblebee and Icarion as Silver Samurai (okay different IP's but hey, I am old and not to blame)

Edited August 10, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir