General Discussion

[simison]

So, I have an Apoc game next Sunday. 6 players, at least 3k points per player, two sides: Imperium & Chaos. 

 

And I want to field a 30k army. I want to start getting used to playing a 30k force to give me better insight into the units, the tactics, and strategy. My biggest question is what do I field? I could give the Blood Angel Legion a test run, or the Halcyon Wardens. The problem with the latter is that I feel that their Legion tactics need to be revised. 

 

Regardless, what are some suggested builds? I can reasonably expect Khorne Daemonkin. Probably will see Chaos Daemons or Chaos Marines. Definitely will see at least 1 hell turkey and Maulerfiend. 

[bluntblade]

If they're cool with you taking the Wardens, I'd say take them

[MikhalLeNoir]

Yeah. Field the wardens and afterwards ask your friends for critiqs. Maybe also upfront. So you can best playtest.

[Grifftofer]

I agree. Field the Wardens as they are meant to be

 

As for advice if you can give us an overview of your available units then we can be more useful/focused. But if you have one my first suggestion would be a Deredeo to help out against the hell turkey or any flying bloodthirsters that might come along, it also has enough shots at high enough strength (and wrecker I believe) to be able to deal reasonably well with armoured ground targets too.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Grifftofer

[MikhalLeNoir]

Or as you can field units from friendly legions, take a illuminator landspeeder from the wardens of light^^ choooom

[Grifftofer]

A couple of small issues Mikhal.

1. Only you and I have much idea of what the Illuminator does/look like :P
2. I think the Halcyon Wardens rule only allows for generic Legion units, not for the unique ones of each Legion.

[Sigismund229]

I'd say if they're cool with you using HW, use them. As for recommendations about what to take, deffinitely take a deredeo. Preferrably two or three with a mix of plasma fussilades and their standard weapons. For a unit to hold an objective I've found breachers normally do pretty well and tac squads are a good "standard" troops choice what with how flexible they are if you give them chainblades.

 

And for allies why not just take two breacher squads of CL and a Rix ot Mycenae to spearhead your attack :p

 

@Thørn: In all honesty the skulls on the BA grails was something I never liked about them particularly(hence my preferrance for their grail as depicted on their 5th(?) edition codex). However, I was worrying that by doing "normal" grails of any sort I would be treading too close to BA turf

Edited August 25, 2016 by Sigismund229

[bluntblade]

Having been wondering about posting some of our stories in Fan-Fic, I thought if we did, a blurb might be in order. So I wrote this up:

 

Mighty Heroes Battle to Rule the Galaxy

 

Humanity is ascendant, marching outward from Terra under the leadership of the Emperor of Mankind. From the ashes of the Age of Strife that threatened to destroy them forever, he has forged a mighty and glorious Imperium, and has proclaimed a Great Crusade to secure his people's rule over the stars. Vast armies give battle in His name and for the cause of Unity, that the entire Galaxy might be their domain.

 

The enemies of the Crusade are many, ranging from human tyrants and mutants to aliens of all kinds; the brutal Orks, duplicitous Eldar and the abhorrent Qarith are but the most numerous. Against these foes the armies of Man wield incredible technologies. Vast warships traverse the void and the strange passages of the Warp. On the battlefield the creations of Mars range from powered armour for the Emperor's warriors to the god-machine Titans, which can lay waste to almost any foe.

 

Yet the Emperor's greatest weapons are flesh and blood, enhanced far beyond mortal capabilities by the brilliant mind of the Emperor Himself. They are the Adeptus Astartes, the superhuman Space Marines. Organised into eighteen Legions, each mighty enough to shake the very stars, they are each led by a son of the Emperor - the Primarchs, his generals and champions. Some, such as the Iron Bears and the Wardens of Light, are praised across the Imperium. Others are viewed with simple awe, for the Crimson Lions and Fire Keepers are fierce warriors with little regard for anything except conquest. A few have a much darker reputation, and even the most loyal citizen shudders at the names of the Grave Stalkers and the Berserkers of Uran.

 

Above all others in this mighty brotherhood stand two. Icarion, the First Found and the Emperor's most beloved son, who has led the Lightning Bearers since the first decades of the Crusade, and Alexandros, who is as much a statesman as a general, earning the adoration of the common people both for himself and his Halcyon Wardens. Joined by a bond closer than any other that exists between the Primarchs, they also share the gift of foresight, which has propelled them to victory over impossible odds.

 

But events lie beyond even the sight of such gifted warriors, and the edifice of the Imperium is riddled with tensions. As the flames of war spread, Mankind's champions will be put to the ultimate test.

[MikhalLeNoir]

A couple of small issues Mikhal.

 

• Only you and I have much idea of what the Illuminator does/look like :P
• I think the Halcyon Wardens rule only allows for generic Legion units, not for the unique ones of each Legion.

 

Ohhh. I thought it allowed unique units if they are sworn bros.

 

And i could tell how it looks^^

[Doctor Perils]

However, I was worrying that by doing "normal" grails of any sort I would be treading too close to BA turf

Well... yeah, "normal" grails do tread close to BA turf. Anything that you call "Grail" and has a connection to the apothecarion and the implantation process is going to tread close to BA turf. But if you want to keep the "Grails" in the first place, you might as well fo full hog with your theme, as the holy Drinking Horns of the Apothecarion would seem out of place in the Anglo Saxon themed Legion that are the Crimson Lions.

 

At the very beginning, when you hadn't posted up the full fluff yet, I honestly thought your "Blood Wolves" were supposed to be a mix of Blood Angels and Space Wolves :P

[Sigismund229]

Fair point. However, technically only the grails used by the Cneassai and the Grail of Camulus are connected to the Implantation process :p

 

And yeah, that's understandle. Instead, what you have now is a mix of Blood Angels and Space Wolves with Anglo-Saxon and Norse themes and gaelic names. Ah happy days.

 

The rough fluff for the roles of the two grails and the copies of them carried by the Cneassai and Leighai. It's very Blood Angely, too much so?

 

The Grails of Mycenae

Among the people of Mycenae, each tribe possesses a grail from which its warriors drink before battle. Across the tribes these varied from bronze grails of great beauty to simple pottery vessels. However, the finest of all the grails were those possessed for thousands of years by the priests of Camulus, god of the sky and four winds, creator of the universe and Allfather, and Ankunus, god of death and the wild places of the world. Each of these grails is a work of art without equal on Mycenae and each is thousands of years old, dating back to the days of the High Kings of Mycenae. Each one is a work of art that fully shows the wealth of early Mycenae in precious metals and gems and each was jealously guarded by the priesthoods for many thousands, possibly even tens of thousands, of years. However, upon his uniting of all Mycenae and being declared High King, Hectarion was gifted the two grails by the High Priests of Camulus and Ankunus.

 

When he joined his legion, Hectarion did not only bring thousands of Mycenaean aspirants, he also brought the grails of Camulus and Ankunus which he entrusted to the heads of the newly formed Cneassai and Leighai respectively. In immitation of this, each of the Cneassai and Leighai carry a copy of the grail entrusted to their order. However, each order uses the grails for a different purpose. Among the Cneassai, the grails are used to comduct the Rite of the Blooding that awakens the gene-seed within an aspirant's body and inducts him into the ranks of the Crimson Lions. Among the Leighai, the grails are used for the Rite of the Lost, a rite in which those of the Cursed who are to be unleashed on the enemy one final time drink their primarch's blood from the grail through the blood of the Leighai to give a part of his strength to them so that they might slay as many of the enemy as possible before inevitably succumbing themselves or surviving to meet their fate at the hands of the Leighai themselves.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Sigismund229

[Sigismund229]

Sorry for the double post but I had an idea and wanted to keep it seperate from stuff abiut the grails of Mycenae.

We know that Alex endorses the Lectito Divinatus. However, what if several variants of the Imperial Creed pop up? So like there's Catholic, Protestant, Aryan, Armenian and Orthodox christianity, there could be lots of different interpretations of the Emperor's godhood and the Lectitio which are all(for the first few millenia during which the Imperial Creed is endorsed) vying for power and recognition as the "one true faith" kind of thing.

[Doctor Perils]

Sorry for the double post but I had an idea and wanted to keep it seperate from stuff abiut the grails of Mycenae.

We know that Alex endorses the Lectito Divinatus. However, what if several variants of the Imperial Creed pop up? So like there's Catholic, Protestant, Aryan, Armenian and Orthodox christianity, there could be lots of different interpretations of the Emperor's godhood and the Lectitio which are all(for the first few millenia during which the Imperial Creed is endorsed) vying for power and recognition as the "one true faith" kind of thing.

That could be interesting to follow up on, but would it have its place in the story of the Insurection? perhaps something like that could be developped later, with something along the lines of the Albigensian crusade (sp?)?

[Sigismund229]

Well I believe the seeds of it can be sown during the Insurrection as I imagine Alex's agreeing to the Imperial Creed being legal would trigger much the same effect as the Reformation did, with each inspirational preacher having thir own take on it. Edited August 25, 2016 by Sigismund229

[MikhalLeNoir]

Ansolutely good idea. So seeds may be sown. Maybe a hero of the insurrection in human side claims to have a vision fron the emperor etc.

 

But majority will play out later when there.is this big vacuum of power

[Sigismund229]

Ansolutely good idea. So seeds may be sown. Maybe a hero of the insurrection in human side claims to have a vision fron the emperor etc.

 

But majority will play out later when there.is this big vacuum of power

Exactly. We can have small hints at it but then develop it later.

[simison]

Sorry for the double post but I had an idea and wanted to keep it seperate from stuff abiut the grails of Mycenae.

We know that Alex endorses the Lectito Divinatus. However, what if several variants of the Imperial Creed pop up? So like there's Catholic, Protestant, Aryan, Armenian and Orthodox christianity, there could be lots of different interpretations of the Emperor's godhood and the Lectitio which are all(for the first few millenia during which the Imperial Creed is endorsed) vying for power and recognition as the "one true faith" kind of thing.

 

Alex actually writes the Divinatus and passes off the credit to someone else. (Early on, at least.) 

 

I like the idea of religious discord between different creeds, but I'm not sure how that would work here. In canon, as I understand it, there is plenty of wiggle room between orthodox and heresy, so long as one acknowledges the Emperor as a (the?) deity. Out of the aforementioned Christian sects and heresies, they all agreed that God was the only god. The divisions arose when it came to Christ's position in existence, which books were elevated as canon, and the proper role and power of the priests and saints. In other words, everything but the core teachings. 

 

So, instead of arguments of the Emperor's godhead, you'd be more likely to see conflict break out over, say, the potential divinity of the Primarchs, Alex in particular since he's the one who got the ball rolling. Another potential seed would be what rituals and rites are effective against Chaos, or maybe arguments over particular passages of the Lectito that are considered gray areas. 

Edited August 25, 2016 by simison

[Sigismund229]

Actually it depends. Sometimes it the conflict was over the structure of the church(protestanitism) and in the case of the heresies(lollards, cathar etc.) it was over interpretatiom of scripture and who could. So there's actually quite a lot of potential for conflict.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Revised signature for all you remembrancers, scriveners, and fluffmongers:

@Sigismund: Boop.

I can make a "crazy guy in the corner" banner for Sanguinius, if you want one.

Gorgeous drak, simply gorgeous. And fear not brother, the Auxillia Scriptorus banner shall do just fine for me, I shall wear it proudly as I represent the Brotherhood, you have my gratitude.

Edited August 25, 2016 by SanguiniusReborn

[~Drakzilla~]

Thanks Sanguinius!

 

Also pssst, Sigismund, your Crimson Lions banner is back in the thread somewhere ;)

[Sigismund229]

Thanks Sanguinius!

 

Also pssst, Sigismund, your Crimson Lions banner is back in the thread somewhere ;)

I realise this and I shall change my signature when I can. But for the mo I'm on holiday and using my phone

[~Drakzilla~]

 

Thanks Sanguinius!

Also pssst, Sigismund, your Crimson Lions banner is back in the thread somewhere ;)

I realise this and I shall change my signature when I can. But for the mo I'm on holiday and using my phone

It's all good. I've been on vacation and pretty much just using my phone for the past 40 days! Get on my level :P

[bluntblade]

So according to some map-work by Sim, the Interex are somewhere to the galactic east, which basically means they're on the Insurrectionists' hit list, especially Alexos'. So that could well be a major campaign in Corruption.

[Sigismund229]

So according to some map-work by Sim, the Interex are somewhere to the galactic east, which basically means they're on the Insurrectionists' hit list, especially Alexos'. So that could well be a major campaign in Corruption.

Hmm. Seeing as we have bigger fish to fry in Corruption(the battle of the Forge, Blood Crusade etc.) perhaps just a provenance for the Interex and a special character or two(one interex one kinebrach) and maybe special units and then a red section on the campaign against them. A fully fledged campaign seems a bit much

[MikhalLeNoir]

 

So according to some map-work by Sim, the Interex are somewhere to the galactic east, which basically means they're on the Insurrectionists' hit list, especially Alexos'. So that could well be a major campaign in Corruption.

Hmm. Seeing as we have bigger fish to fry in Corruption(the battle of the Forge, Blood Crusade etc.) perhaps just a provenance for the Interex and a special character or two(one interex one kinebrach) and maybe special units and then a red section on the campaign against them. A fully fledged campaign seems a bit much

 

But we could put them into the 3rd Book. Eliminating the interex would reduce the danger on the east front of the insurrectionists. Maybe their goal is to pacify the east and then head for terra? And the last chapter concludes with the traitors entering the solar system?