[HH1.0] Mechanicum Tactica

[unerde]

Ok, sad but true. Oh dear.

[Charlo]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. It is a typo so they are meant to be the same as 40k.

[LtDan]

Any info to back it up bud?. Cheers

[Withershadow]

 

Aren't the galvanic casters any good?

Incredibly.

 

Its just a different option and cheaper in money (and points in a way) for the carbines!

 

Both are entirely great though.

 

Galvanic casters suck in my opinion, because they are too expensive once you paid to upgrade for the good rounds. The shredding rounds losing a point of strength cost them a lot of efficacy, and the cloud rounds seem gimmicky. I'd rather have carbines than either of those profiles.

[Charlo]

Any info to back it up bud?. Cheers

 

Just a few reports from the weekender.

[SydonianDragoon404]

I know the Secutarii the are new shiny, but I gotta tell you guys, the fearless thrall blob never fails me. I had a game against Word Bearers where Lorgar dropped down in one of six drop pods in my deployment zone, alongside veterans and other nasties. My 20 man blob of fearless tech thralls charged Lorgar after shooting up the veteran squad he joined, and tied him up for three full turns, buying my army time to kill everything else. My deployment zone didn't get wiped because of those thralls. 

[Purge the Daemon]

I know the Secutarii the are new shiny, but I gotta tell you guys, the fearless thrall blob never fails me. I had a game against Word Bearers where Lorgar dropped down in one of six drop pods in my deployment zone, alongside veterans and other nasties. My 20 man blob of fearless tech thralls charged Lorgar after shooting up the veteran squad he joined, and tied him up for three full turns, buying my army time to kill everything else. My deployment zone didn't get wiped because of those thralls.

But Secutarii can be fearless to just need a warhound...

[RedFox]

Anyone else having trouble with the Secutarii Axiarch appearing in Battlescribe? it was there like a week ago, and now it's gone from my list, can't seem to find the entry anymore. Yes I'm using the Taghmata army list...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Let's not overstate the advantages of Matrix of Ruin. Vehicles only score in the enemy deployment zone, and the Myrmidons don't score at all ever. 

 

Also, all arc rifle squads seem like a horrendous waste of points. 3 rifles is enough to kill almost all vehicles in a single volley at rapidness fire range. Remember they are BS5. You could hedge your bets with 4-5 rifles and give the rest rad carbines. That way you get a solid anti-Infantry squad that also murders vehicles. 

 

Matrix of Ruin is still pretty good dude. Scoring tanks is never bad, and Myrmidons usually die so not scoring is irrelevant. 

I suppose that's true, I guess the concern is the arc rifle dudes dying thus neutering the squad, whereas taking all adds redundancy. But it might be better to do like half half, and take rad carbines on the front rank. 

Galvanic casters suck in my opinion, because they are too expensive once you paid to upgrade for the good rounds. The shredding rounds losing a point of strength cost them a lot of efficacy, and the cloud rounds seem gimmicky. I'd rather have carbines than either of those profiles.

 

Yeah S3 Shred is a lot better than S2. I feel like the experimental rules were fine, they kinda downgraded them a bit too far. 

I know the Secutarii the are new shiny, but I gotta tell you guys, the fearless thrall blob never fails me. I had a game against Word Bearers where Lorgar dropped down in one of six drop pods in my deployment zone, alongside veterans and other nasties. My 20 man blob of fearless tech thralls charged Lorgar after shooting up the veteran squad he joined, and tied him up for three full turns, buying my army time to kill everything else. My deployment zone didn't get wiped because of those thralls. 

 

The thing, Primarchs usually roll with a bodyguard for precisely this reason (Lorgar usually rolling with Gal Vorbak, making them 'Invisible'). You'll still tie them up for 1-2 turns, but I feel that's a misplay on his part. It is amusing as hell though. 

Anyone else having trouble with the Secutarii Axiarch appearing in Battlescribe? it was there like a week ago, and now it's gone from my list, can't seem to find the entry anymore. Yes I'm using the Taghmata army list...

 

Yeah doesn't appear for me either. I think they're taking a while to get Inferno working correctly (Talons doesn't have a Lord of War slot yet). 1k Sons aren't out yet either. 

[Withershadow]

Or you could do some basic math and not trust a frequently faulty application!

 

*grumble grumble kids these days grumble*

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Oh I write lists in Notepad all the time. It's just easier on a phone, I hate writing applications on phones. BS is usually handy in that regard, because it also points out any restrictions or mistakes in the list (still need to use some common sense). 

[LtDan]

Hi guys. Is there any way to fit a shadowsword into my reductor force?

[Charlo]

As it is a Baneblade variant without 30k rules, yes I belive you can as LoW choice. Could even give it the servitor upgraded etc

[LtDan]

It's got solar rules tho

[N1SB]

It's got solar rules tho

 

Yeah, that's the current hurdle.  We believe that WILL change in RAW due to something in the new Legion book, but not yet.

 

Here's the list of ADDITIONAL Lords of War available to us right now RAW, but pls see below on how that will change:

 

Imperial Armour Aeronautica

Aquila Lander (page 13)

Vulture Gunship (page 14)

Valkyrie Sky Talon Transport (page 16)

Marauder Destroyer (page 18)

 

Imperial Armour; Apocalypse

Crassus Armoured Assault Transport (page 28)

Praetor Armoured Assault Launcher (page 29)

Macharius Heavy Tank (page 32)

Macharius 'Vulkan' (page 33)

Macharius 'Vanquisher' (page 34)

Macharius 'Omega' (page 35)

Marauder Bomber (page 47)

Marauder Destroyer (page 48)

 

Imperial Armour; Volume 1 - 2nd Edition; Imperial Guard

Dominus Armoured Siege Bombard (page 130)

 

Imperial Armour; Volume 2 - 2nd Edition; War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes

Inquisitorial Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron (page 230, note that Sub-orbital Wings refer to "Flyers", and not "units", so even though a squadron may take up to 3 vehicles, each vehicle counts towards the Wing's limit of vehicles)

 

Imperial Armour; Volume 3 - 2nd Edition; The Taros Campaign

Valkyrie Airborne Carrier (page X)

Valkyrie Sky Talon (page X)

Vulture Gunship Squadron (page X, note that Sub-orbital Wings refer to "Flyers", and not "units", so even though a squadron may take up to 3 vehicles, each vehicle counts towards the Wing's limit of vehicles)

Vendetta Gunship Squadron (page X, note that Sub-orbital Wings refer to "Flyers", and not "units", so even though a squadron may take up to 3 vehicles, each vehicle counts towards the Wing's limit of vehicles)

Lightning (page 12)

 

Imperial Armour; Volume 4 - 2nd Edition; The Anphelion Project

D-99 Valkyrie Airborne Assault Carrier

D-99 Valkyrie Sky Talon

D-99 Vulture Squadron

 

It is very possible that when a new Mechanicum Red Book comes out, we'll get access to the Shadowsword.  The reason is the new Legion Red Book got a glut of new LoW options (with upgrades relevant to Legion Marines, like getting Legion crews), it was a special blurb on the subject:

 

• Stormlord, Stormsword, Banehammer, Shadowsword, Baneblade, Macharius and variants, Crassus and variants, Minotaur, Marauder Bomber & Destroyer, Thunderbolt and Avenger.

 

We don't get that option for the Mechanicum yet, but having read the Legion Red Book, it looks almost like something they'll add to the Mechanicum Red Book in the future.  Thanks to Brother Friday for telling me that when I asked a similar question myself.

 

TL;DR - stay tuned, the rules for Mechanicum Baneblade probably coming in our next Red Book.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Not 1 Step Backwards

[LtDan]

Thanks bud this is the exact answer I needed(but not wanted haha) your a star.

[Charlo]

Ah my bad! I'm not as familiar with SA.

[Guardbuddy]

Has anyone had experience with the Karacnos yet?  It doesn't look like the most competitive thing out there but it looks fun to use in casual play.  

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Has anyone had experience with the Karacnos yet?  It doesn't look like the most competitive thing out there but it looks fun to use in casual play.  

 

 

It's overpriced garbage. FW just do that sometimes to Mechanicum, for no discernible reason. I think the logic went

'Wow phosphex mortars are an abominable plague in 30k, invalidates many viable lists by being insanely cheap and flexible due to shatter shells'

'Hey so we've got the new anti-infantry Mechanicum tank. It's got this sick mortar battery that fires radiation warheads'

'Okay but make it only AP4 and Landraider Phobos price'

'It's four shots'

'Nah, make it three'

 

I was briefly considering it when Battlescribe lied to me and told me it was same price as Triaros. Then I re-read Inferno and realised its 90pts more. 

 

Even the lightning sentinels are garbage, because they're range 18" on a non-Fast vehicle without Machine Spirit. So you'll fire them like once per game normally. And still be fishing for Rends against anything in 3+ armour or with decent AV. So it suffers from Thallax syndrome, where you do nothing about half the time and beat people a small amount of the time. 

 

Wanna know the ultimate salt in the wound? This trainwreck of bad design decisions doesn't even come in squadrons. So Reductor will never field it, despite being Tanks: The Faction. Taghmata will field Destructors with better results (especially because their Triaros/Arvus Lighter adds other utility and you have to kill two units to remove the awesome shooting). Cybernetica have Thanatars, which while mediocre at least still kill whatever they hit normally. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Brother Tyler

[Guardbuddy]

 

Has anyone had experience with the Karacnos yet?  It doesn't look like the most competitive thing out there but it looks fun to use in casual play.  

 

 

It's overpriced garbage. FW just do that sometimes to Mechanicum, for no discernible reason. I think the logic went

'Wow phosphex mortars are an abominable plague in 30k, invalidates many viable lists by being insanely cheap and flexible due to shatter shells'

'Hey so we've got the new anti-infantry Mechanicum tank. It's got this sick mortar battery that fires radiation warheads'

'Okay but make it only AP4 and Landraider Phobos price'

'It's four shots'

'Nah, make it three'

 

I was briefly considering it when Battlescribe lied to me and told me it was same price as Triaros. Then I re-read Inferno and realised its 90pts more. 

 

Even the lightning sentinels are garbage, because they're range 18" on a non-Fast vehicle without Machine Spirit. So you'll fire them like once per game normally. And still be fishing for Rends against anything in 3+ armour or with decent AV. So it suffers from Thallax syndrome, where you do nothing about half the time and beat people a small amount of the time. 

 

Wanna know the ultimate salt in the wound? This trainwreck of bad design decisions doesn't even come in squadrons. So Reductor will never field it, despite being Tanks: The Faction. Taghmata will field Destructors with better results (especially because their Triaros/Arvus Lighter adds other utility and you have to kill two units to remove the awesome shooting). Cybernetica have Thanatars, which while mediocre at least still kill whatever they hit normally. 

 

Dang.  The Karacnos is such an awesome looking model.  Being a fan of how the Triaros looks, I instantly got excited when they started showing the Karacnos in the new Inferno stuff.  That really is a shame though.  I guess one day I can hope for it to get FAQ'd into something better.  

Edited March 21, 2018 by Brother Tyler

[Charlo]

Aye it's certainly lacking. Aside from Vorax or clearing out Solar Aux/ Militia it's not too useful :(

 

Snapshooting Flyers at BS2 with the Lightning Sentinels is nifty, but nothing special.

 

It's still an AV14 Flare Shield 4HP wall your opponent needs to take down - it's just a shame they can more than likely afford to ignore it. That said, fleshbane templates are fun for getting a few easy wounds on things... Just don't point it at the Death Guard...

 

AP3 and it would have been usable in most situations I feel, but with it's relative power level and the fact it takes up a Heavy Support slot will relegate it out of most lists - even the Lightning Cannon Krios is maybe better.

[1ncarnadine]

I saw one in a game on Saturday, mis-priced at 135 off battlescribe, and it didn't matter. It had no impact what-so-ever. Tried to stand off against some Siege Tyrants that couldn't hurt it, but because it couldn't really hurt them either, nothing happened. Hopefully an edition change does it some good because it's such a cool idea and a great model.

 

It doesn't help that Rad-phage is also a god-awful rule and utterly useless against most targets in the Heresy. It really just needs to be rad grenades but in the shooting phase.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

That's my biggest concern with the Karacnos. You give up a valuable Heavy slot and pay nearly the price of a Thanatar to do nothing to vehicles most of the game, and while you wound reliably Marines get their save. Regular Krios is still bad, but it at least smokes Marines if they fail their cover or invul. 

 

I think the intention of Rad-phage is to fight multi-wound targets. A ranged rad-grenade effect would be a bit too powerful, as shooting can be sequential (whereas melee has more risks and charging multiple units into one enemy is harder than shooting one enemy). The main point of rad-phage is to help Legion lists deal with Mechanicum robots and other MC's/Gal Vorbak etc. 

[Purge the Daemon]

That's my biggest concern with the Karacnos. You give up a valuable Heavy slot and pay nearly the price of a Thanatar to do nothing to vehicles most of the game, and while you wound reliably Marines get their save. Regular Krios is still bad, but it at least smokes Marines if they fail their cover or invul.

 

I think the intention of Rad-phage is to fight multi-wound targets. A ranged rad-grenade effect would be a bit too powerful, as shooting can be sequential (whereas melee has more risks and charging multiple units into one enemy is harder than shooting one enemy). The main point of rad-phage is to help Legion lists deal with Mechanicum robots and other MC's/Gal Vorbak etc.

I think even then any mechanicum artillery dank be they a stock krios or the reductor ones bring far more useful firepower even against monstrous creatures than this thing. The only benefit is if you are super crazy lucky you can do multiple wounds to single model units but things like thanatar have 2+ saves so they actually don't care. I think it's got a really cool model but the weapons ap needs to be 3 or it just isn't useful especially in a game where 90% of models have a 3+ save.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah agreed. Inferno is a real mess in general, I'm hoping the FAQ changes a few things.