[HH1.0] Mechanicum Tactica

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'd like to get 10-20 Secutarii in a Triaros. Or some for backfield Haywire Interceptor.

 

Would you guys take Hoplites or Peltasts and why?

 

The Hoplites are more durable and cheaper, but lower range. Peltasts are better range and rapid fire haywire could interceptor, the hoplites assault weapons may not.

 

Can't decide, please help  

 

They're both solid, and require different usage. 

 

Peltasts like a Triaros to prevent artillery deleting them, and getting them into arc rifle rapid-fire range. And yeah, if you get a cyber-occulari within 12" of them, they can blast annoying Flyers out of the sky with sheer Haywire output. 

Hoplites can function very effectively in an Arvus lighter as a suicide squad to bomb your opponents backfield artillery and Superheavies. 

Guys, i have two questions for you...

 

First, what do you think about the Thanatar Calix? 

I don't figure how to play it...His lascanon is cool but only 1 shot, and in combat against vehicules he's a monster but not against everything else....

 

Then, what do you think about the Thanatar Cynis?

He has a short range, but he looks like a real monster at short range.

 

Thanks for your help guys. 

 

To clarify, the Calix only gets Destroyer against buildings and fortifications. Not vehicles. So he's actually worse than you think. 

They're both badly designed units sadly. FW really got scared after all the stupid Legion bitching about regular Thanatars. So we get a Thanatar that cost 2/3rd what a Knight does but outputs 1 railgun shot a turn, and will likely never get into melee with a building (can't Run, so 6" movement a turn at best). And Cynis would be good if he had longer range, 18" is sadly too short on a model that again only moves 6" a turn. Also he can kill himself with 'Gets Hot!' rolls, especially if you 'Rite of Destruction' him (which you probably should, as getting within 18" of most things risks melee). 

Hi everyone, I would like to ask about your opinions here.

Today we had a casual 500pts tournament (lots of new players around so we wanted to play 4 small games with a nice variety of armies, so they could get to know the game and their chosen army). It was a 40k tournament in general, but it was for fun so nobody cared if anyone took a 30k army (and as far as I know, 30k is in disadvantage below 2k).

I decided to take my 30k mechanicum, for the sole reason that I had only played one game with the yet, and more so, it gave me motivation to paint my thallax.

 

500pts not giving much options, I just took 2x 3 Thallax (plasma fusil in both), 1 vorax (bio ammo) and 1 magos dominos (machinator array + abeyant). The list was build in 2 min, because this was WYSIWYG for the models I own and the points didn't allow something else.

 

I didn't count on winning any games, but I actually won all 4 (vs Space Wolves, Death Watch, Eldar and Ultramarines).

The ultramarine player was very new, the sw and eldar play quite often and the Death Watch opponent is a veteran player)

 

Everyone now said it was because I took 30k stuff, but I'm wondering about your opinions, was this army at 500pts over powered? 

Restrictions of the game were: no 2+ armour, max 3 wounds, max 33 armour total per model.

We had to stick to CAD.

I played 'The Relic', 2x 'Capture zones' (like the 30k mission with points for deployment zones and no-mans land) and 'King of the Hill' (5vp for the player with the model closest to the middle of a terrain hill).

 

In the end it doesn't really matter and everyone had fun, but I'd like to know for next events, that may be 750-800 pts. Is mechanicum OP for these types of games? I think the eldar player should have beaten me easily, but he kept at 18-24" range, which was perfect for me. The 40k wulfen came closest to winning.

 

No your list is if anything underpowered, even for 500pts I could write something far nastier. Especially with those restrictions. 40k has way nastier stuff than 30k. They're just scrubs. It happens to most people who first start playing, you lose your first 10 games normally. 

I have an other question.

 

How should i run Inar Satarael?

He seems to be more a support character, so i think i must keep it behind, but where?

Far behind with the Thanatar, or in the middle of a pack of Darkfire Castellax? Or alone, or near the front line?

 

Perhaps it's a stupid question, but voila! 

 

Take cyber-occulari, stick him with a Darkfire Castellax unit. He's fairly durable, his lack of a true invul is annoying but the shield will normally trigger. You should probably keep him back, he'll still die to AP3 melee. He's very good at supporting Thanatars but ideally by using his Line of Sight or his drones, so move him up so you can Barrage without penalty. 

[Karl_von_Krieg]

For the Thanatar, i think that i'll get two of them and one Cynis to double shot what's getting too close (i don't want to spam base thanatar.... it's stupid but ...)

 

And thanks for the advices for Satarael. I'll try that!

Edited March 12, 2017 by Karl_von_Krieg

[Charlo]

The best thing you can do with the Cynis is combo the rules from an Archmagos that give its weapon sunder/ tank Hunter and +1 on the damage table with the addition of the double shooting cyberthurgy.

 

Youll basically guarantee two pens on something, maybe an explodes.

 

Then again, Krios exist.

[Karl_von_Krieg]

I want a full automata list, but your idea of the Cynis+Archmagos seems quiet fun! 

[Brofist]

The problem with a full automata list is that you have no scoring units whatsoever

[MorgothNL]

The problem with a full automata list is that you have no scoring units whatsoever

Neither will the opponent when your are through with them 

[Karl_von_Krieg]

The problem with a full automata list is that you have no scoring units whatsoever

 

The rule of cool is too strong! 

But i'll probably take two or three packs of brainless zombies as scoring troops.

 

 

The problem with a full automata list is that you have no scoring units whatsoever

Neither will the opponent when your are through with them 

 

You are right! :D

[Withershadow]

Some Adsecularis are easy and cheap enough to throw in there so you can at least throw a squad on your home objective. Someone has to polish the robots before very battle.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The best thing you can do with the Cynis is combo the rules from an Archmagos that give its weapon sunder/ tank Hunter and +1 on the damage table with the addition of the double shooting cyberthurgy.

 

Youll basically guarantee two pens on something, maybe an explodes.

 

Then again, Krios exist. 

 

That's the thing, by the time the enemy are within 18" of you, they're probably getting into melee with your Cynis quite soon. And yeah, Mechanicum have better tools for dismantling enemy vehicles at range. Losing Ordnance and Barrage makes it a lot less effective than regular Thanatar too. 

 

Regarding scoring, it's rarely an issue for me because I just murder all the enemy Troops as a priority. Barring mission specific scoring or stuff like Implacable Advance, in general if you focus down enemy Troops you will avoid losing on scenario usually. If its a huge concern, just drop a robot and get a couple of Fearless Tech-Thrall squads. 

[Tiger9gamer]

Thralls are fairly easy to throw in as other people say, and I have been experimenting with thallax as well. They are good on paper, but my opponent keeps assaulting them and making them useless 

 

quick question now that I finally have an artillery battery: three demolisher cannon ordo reductor tanks or two medusa artillery tanks?

[LtDan]

I'd go two medusas. Longer range.barrage and can take phosphex shells too

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Thralls are fairly easy to throw in as other people say, and I have been experimenting with thallax as well. They are good on paper, but my opponent keeps assaulting them and making them useless 

 

I own 18 of them, and they're depressingly mediocre. They have a lot of neat rules and abilities, but its their lackluster damage output and melee weakness that make them so annoying to use. Lightning guns should really be Heavy 2, even with jetpack movement they're a short-range unit that often fails to do meaningful damage. The two best ways I've found are flanking with Destructor and photon thruster (to avoid flare shields), or using them to hunt backfield infantry with plasma fusil and Deepstrike. The Ferrox build is amusing, but they're just too slow to gap close on the turn you want to be in melee, and going at Initiative 2 leaves you vulnerable to a lot of things (same problem Ursarax suffer from). 

 

quick question now that I finally have an artillery battery: three demolisher cannon ordo reductor tanks or two medusa artillery tanks?

 

 

I'd say Demolisher with Machine Spirit actually. Custodian arae shrikes don't get any particular bonus against it that way, and becoming pseudo-Fast (as you can move 12" and still shoot) means you can flank flare shielded targets and Knight ion shields to still hit them with S10 AP2. They're also substantially cheaper than the Medusas. 

[Brofist]

My experience is about the same. Thallax make a good boyfriend squad for a magos, especially if you give them tank hunters. I found x6 bodies is the sweet spot and the sweet spot for running them.

[Withershadow]

I give destructor to all of them, even the fusil one. It will outperform the thruster against anything AV12 or less. I don't find that they are terrible in melee against other basic infantry.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I give destructor to all of them, even the fusil one. It will outperform the thruster against anything AV12 or less. I don't find that they are terrible in melee against other basic infantry. 

 

 

Not a whole lot of AV12 in 30k I find. Flare shielded high AV is a common and consistent issue. Thallax cost too much to just sit out when someone puts a Dracosan or Spartan down. They blow up Rhinos just fine though, but they're usually Outflanking anyway. 

 

That's the other issue with Thallax, they're relatively slow on the turn you wanna charge. You can get into position semi-reliably (the Assault move is on top of Run, but they're all D6 related so you can zoom or waddle). But on the actual turn you want to charge, you're as slow as normal infantry. They should have given Ferrox augment Fleet as well to help gap close. They're fine against like Tac Marines. The more common problem is you'll either get shot to pieces trying to get in, or lose combat to something faster and more capable, then get run down (Stubborn Ld8 helps, but its still a Ld8 test, and with I2 most things will catch you). 

[LtDan]

Guys do cyber occuli count as a unit or as wargear. Ie for working out kill points etc.

[Withershadow]

I see plenty of AV11-12, whether it's the flanks of every non-Raider Marine vehicle, or Javelins, or Dreadclaws, etc. Also helps in melee with S7 axe blades.

[Brofist]

In our group we run them as part of your single HQ entry.

[Withershadow]

Thallax should never really be getting assaulted unless you want them to. 18" range and jet movement means they will forever be out of reach for Infantry. Now if you need to hold a point, sure.

[Bat33.1]

I have some simple questions as I've not found it by searching and it's not in the Taghmata red book which I have. Where are the rules for hoplites and peltasts for 30k? Are they in Inferno? Guessing by the posts here that they can be taken in a mechanicum list but which sub faction for want of a better description are they troops for? Thanks

[Charlo]

They're in Inferno.

 

They're a troops choice but are only compulsory if your army includes a Titan.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I see plenty of AV11-12, whether it's the flanks of every non-Raider Marine vehicle, or Javelins, or Dreadclaws, etc. Also helps in melee with S7 axe blades. 

 

You're only likely to catch side or rear arc if you Deepstrike though, which puts them off-table for at least a turn. Going at I2 is really sucky, I feel like Ursarax are a better option because while they go I1 at least S10 fists kill everything, and jump packs/5+ FNP means you're both faster to engage and slightly tougher. 

Thallax should never really be getting assaulted unless you want them to. 18" range and jet movement means they will forever be out of reach for Infantry. Now if you need to hold a point, sure.

 

Jump Infantry and Bikers exist. I wouldn't say its beyond the realm of possibility. Also jet movement is random, if you roll double 1's you're stranded well within even regular infantry charge range (requires some luck on their part, but its not impossible). You also have to contend with Space Wolves now, who can Run and charge you. 

I have some simple questions as I've not found it by searching and it's not in the Taghmata red book which I have. Where are the rules for hoplites and peltasts for 30k? Are they in Inferno? Guessing by the posts here that they can be taken in a mechanicum list but which sub faction for want of a better description are they troops for? Thanks 

 

You'll need Book 7 Inferno

 

Axiarch is Secutarii HQ choice that currently isn't an Independent Character (needs to be FAQ'd). He grants buffs to Secutarii units. 

Peltasts are shooty Secutarii (Titan Guard) that are non-Compulsory Troops in Taghmata and Ordo Reductor armies.

Hoplites are stabby Secutarii that are non-Compulsory Troops in Taghmata and Ordo Reductor armies.

If you take a Titan as a Lord of War they can be taken as Compulsory Troops. Not a common thing, but kinda cool if you're playing a big game and people are okay fighting a Warhound. 

[Withershadow]

18" + snake eyes on jet = 20".

 

Unless they have a +2 to charge distances or movement, they can never ever reach you.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

18" + snake eyes on jet = 20".

 

Unless they have a +2 to charge distances or movement, they can never ever reach you. 

 

Grey Slayers can Run and Charge. 20" charges are a distinct possibility. Also Jump units and Bikers exist, so outside of Space Wolves, Thallax can still be caught. I don't mind their short range all that much, it is a carbine after all. I just wish it was Heavy 2 so they could output some serious damage before getting tied up in melee. 

 

Speaking of short range, I'm getting some Myrmidon Destructors soon. Gonna be testing out a few different builds with them, swapping them out for my Thanatars (who have been extremely unreliable lately). How do people find the different options? Rad-engine is something I'm especially keen on, as I have to fight Solar Auxilia who abuse Aegis Lines to the max. Ignoring cover is a big plus, just need to deliver them. I've ordered a Triaros, but I'm also considering the Arvus Lighter suicide build I've seen around. Anyone have experience with that? 

[Withershadow]

Cleansers or Imploders in Triaros, or Volkite at range. Photon thrusters are another option, you get two for the price of one Darkfire Castellax. They are a lot less useful vs armor being S6, but do quite a number on elite units with preferred enemy.