[HH1.0] Militia and Cults tactica

[helterskelter]

Didn't say it was perfect but rotor cannons are the only weapon that can consistently put out that much accurate mobile firepower and it's certainly not the be all and end all.

I can't deny the maths, and 121+ dudes are exceptionally useful. I just don't think it's as a complex a challenge and that list tailoring isn't really a requirement to deal with it.

I'll refer to good old terror lists once more (obviously not everyone you face will have one). Terror squads are meant for troop killing of which you will have 3. Most likely all volkite. With preferred enemy infantry. 20 X 3 shots, with rerolls, plus the cheeky deflagerate. Not including what else is in the army behind them. You've got 6 squads of guys charging at them 3 of those squads are definitely going to suffer. Weight of dice will see off the terror squads undoubtedly, but they will make a right bloody mess first. And then there's still each sides respective back field units which could help things one way or t'other.

I can see where you guys are coming from, so don't think I'm being a pain in the butt, am just enjoying healthy tactical debate :)

[Sanct]

 

There are enough weapons in a marines arsenal that could probably see off a horde list pretty sharpish point for point.

No chance of doing it point for point. List tailoring is a lazy way of taking on anything, and even that won't wipe a horde cult point for point. It will make for an interesting challenge though.

 

Force Commander, Cult Horde, Tainted Flesh

6*20 Inducted Levy

360 points

 

6 squads, 121 models, all have: fearless, hatred, rending in combat, fnp(6+).

 

Show us 360 points of marines that can kill all that over 6 turns without getting eaten.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that marines can win against this sort of list in a full game. I just don't think they can kill this horde under point for point restrictions.

 

 

Tactical support squad with volkite calivers.

225pts dealing 11 regular wounds + 9 deflagerate wounds per turn at S6 AP5 which mean you don't get FnP or an armour save

Should kill 120 over 6 turns and you still have 135 points spare.

 

I usually take one but swap the sarge to have an augury scanner instead.

 

But that's the thing... *no one* takes rotor cannons. Plenty of bros take volkites,

 

 

Because a rotor is priced the same as the calivers but don't have S6.  Why spend the same points for similar performance but less flexibility.  

If FW made rotor tactical supports usable as compulsory troops or a free swap then I'd take some.  As is?  No thank you.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Sanct

[Slips]

If only you could give split fire to Medusae. Even then it wouldnt be points efficient.

 

But phosphex shells would certaintly slow them down.

[helterskelter]

 

 

 

There are enough weapons in a marines arsenal that could probably see off a horde list pretty sharpish point for point.

No chance of doing it point for point. List tailoring is a lazy way of taking on anything, and even that won't wipe a horde cult point for point. It will make for an interesting challenge though.

 

Force Commander, Cult Horde, Tainted Flesh

6*20 Inducted Levy

360 points

 

6 squads, 121 models, all have: fearless, hatred, rending in combat, fnp(6+).

 

Show us 360 points of marines that can kill all that over 6 turns without getting eaten.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that marines can win against this sort of list in a full game. I just don't think they can kill this horde under point for point restrictions.

Tactical support squad with volkite calivers.

225pts dealing 11 regular wounds + 9 deflagerate wounds per turn at S6 which mean you don't get FnP.

Should kill 120 over 6 turns and you still have 135 points spare.

 

I usually take one but swap the sarge to have an augury scanner instead.

But that's the thing... *no one* takes rotor cannons. Plenty of bros take volkites,

 

Because a rotor is priced the same as the calivers but don't have S6. Why spend the same points for similar performance but less flexibility.

If FW made rotor tactical supports usable as compulsory troops or a free swap then I'd take some. As is? No thank you.

For the vokite take a barebones mos. Don't let him fire you are hitting on 2s.

 

As per rotor cannons, they are more flexible as you can move and fire, At 30 inches with your regular bs, granted one less shot than standing still. Plus objectives. I assume the whole point of 6 scoring units is to plonk them on something, so generally won't be chasing with all of them either

[Slips]

Another thing to consider is a Reaping Deathguard list putting Culverin Squads into troops.

 

They can score and sit on objectives while pumping out good damage at 45"

 

Use multiple 5 man squads and you should fare ok.

 

But its pretty much list tailoring at that point.

[Sanct]

 As per rotor cannons, they are more flexible as you can move and fire, At 30 inches with your regular bs, granted one less shot than standing still

 

 

salvo weapons move and shoot at half range

[helterskelter]

I appear to have missed that. But still, lots of shots and mobile at full ballistic skill.

I really want to face down a militia army now it sounds like a lot of fun

[Gorgoff]

I one played a game in which I took lots of chaos cultists against a regular SW army. Was a lot of fun. Won. ;)

[Sanct]

For the vokite take a barebones mos. Don't let him fire you are hitting on 2s.

 

 

For the cost of the caliver tactical and MoS i prob prefer to take 2x 7 man astartes calivers.  More bodies, units and damage.

 

I think the benefit of the tainted cult horde isn't the levy themselves but the saturation.  You give them too much for their infantry guns to deal with when combo'd with fire support squads (it would mean mobbing up the levy but who cares?  They're cheap and fearless)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Prefer 5 man squads with heavy chemflamers and Rad nades. The Rad nades are less useful against militia (although Instant Gib T3 enemies when overwatching).

 

180pts for that squad, 4 of them come to 720. Can also take another Shred Heavy Flamer for 15pts per tank.

 

Not many 4+ Saves like running into 5D3 S5 Shred AP4 autohits after taking 5 templates taking out a good 20 already with shooting.

 

2 Breacher Squads for core gives you some Rending Blob defense in melee. Rad Nades, Chem Flamers and combi ChemFlamers comes to 510pts. Volkites are cheaper, though.

 

3 Deredeos, Autocannons Heavy Flamers, Aiolos comes to 660, alternatively Predator Chem Flamestorms with Chem Heavy Flamers and Machine Spirit (or rather, Magnamelta for more less tailored approach) comes to 135per tank. Another option is the Achilles Alpha.

 

A pair of Librarians running Telekinesis gives you a guaranteed Strike down because militia lack Move through Cover.

 

Calas Typhon in a Terminator Squad with Combi ChemFlamers Chem Heavies etc. Plod forward all game. He doesn't care about Fearless enemies unless engaged, he only needs to Get within 3" of an objective. His unit scores and he prevents enemies from scoring.

 

Even a Caestus comes into its own; AV13 Flyer isn't something many legion armies can easily deal with without multiple deredeos, and its Two Havoc Launchers can actually do something.

[defl0]

Anyone else kinda bummed that gorgon's lost open topped? That would have made this army truly interesting.

[Sheesh Mode]

Anyone else kinda bummed that gorgon's lost open topped? That would have made this army truly interesting.

But you could never shoot out of it anyways. It's a benefit, not a disadvantage. 

[Gorgoff]

By the way:

Is there any project which is all about militia?

[God-Potato of Mankind]

By the way:

Is there any project which is all about militia?

 

I have yet to see one. The amount of imagination and creativity would be insane, as would the cost of kitbashing.

 

I think it's just FW trying to get people into 30k without having to buy the hella dank expensive HH stuff. You could get away with any 28mm scale models on this list, or just use an existing Imperial Guard force!

 

All of your worrying about how a Legion force might struggle against hundreds of cultists makes my Solar Auxilia all warm and fuzzy inside. My Stormlord & 40 Veletarii would welcome the cultists with open choom and bolter rounds

 

I'd be very tempted to run a Survivors of the Dark Age and Warrior elite style list, lots of Stormtroopers and tech heavy. Uniformity makes it easier, making a mass of cultists would give me carpal tunnel and rage. Are Advanced Weapons any good - I read they might be not that great? Inquisition but without the Is would play these guys well. Stormtroopers in rhinos!

Edited October 20, 2015 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Gorgoff]

I've started my Militia recentely. Fluffwise I go for an army made of Hive gangers forming the main bulk of the troopers. I use the "imperialized" Chaos Cultist. That means I glued imperial stuff taken from the Cadian and Catachan sprue like eagles, signs, googles, banners etc. In bigger games they gonna get Alchem Jackers as a provinence That fits quiet awesome with all the wires and gas masks. ;)

The Levy Squads will be brutaly inducted prisoners which are pimped with Frenzon.

Gonna use the CCW Cultists for them and paint their clothes orange with numbers on their back or forhead. Hope that it'll look awesome.

[Slips]

I've started my Militia recentely. Fluffwise I go for an army made of Hive gangers forming the main bulk of the troopers. I use the "imperialized" Chaos Cultist. That means I glued imperial stuff taken from the Cadian and Catachan sprue like eagles, signs, googles, banners etc. In bigger games they gonna get Alchem Jackers as a provinence That fits quiet awesome with all the wires and gas masks.

The Levy Squads will be brutaly inducted prisoners which are pimped with Frenzon.

Gonna use the CCW Cultists for them and paint their clothes orange with numbers on their back or forhead. Hope that it'll look awesome.

If you can somehow make the Levies Chain-Gangs thatd add some serious cool points, imo

 

...though they would have to not actually be chained together to avoid headaches.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Gorgoff]

Yes, it'd be cool, but way too hard to handle. ;)

How would you equip a unit of Sentinels, guys?

I think of two Autocannons and one Heavy Flamer for nice outflank action. :)

[Lunar Centurion]

I'm planning on buying Tempest soon, so I don't know too much about Militia, but what provenances do you recommend for a stationary mixed army (Aka not all elite, not all horde), with some Sentinels and a few mortar heavy support squads or a Quad-Mortar or two. I was thinking Survivors for the armor boost and then maybe Warrior Elite for the leadership boost?

[Flint13]

Survivors of the Dark age is indeed nice for the boost to shooting from the Advanced Weapons option as well as the bonus armor. One I'm actually surprised I haven't seen more often with "hunker down and shoot it out" forces though, is Abhuman Helots. 

 

The toughness boost will still serve you well even in heavy cover where the Survivors armor boost may be a moot point. Plus the only negative is a -1 to initiative which doesn't really factor if you're never in combat :D

[Caillum]

Not bad Flint! "Abhuman Helots" and "Survivors of the Dark Age" basically makes Grenadiers into Marines. How's this for points-efficient:

 

20 Grenadiers, 2 plasma guns & bolters. BS4, T4, 3+ save. Whole squad costs only 165 points! :) They're only MEQs, but you can get a lot more than the Legiones Astartes can!

Edited December 31, 2015 by Caillum

[Flint13]

When they're BS4 and T4 with S4 weapons, sitting in heavy cover, the only difference you'll notice between them and Astartes is your decided numerical advantages :D

[Excessus]

I was thinking survivors grenadier squads in LR proteus:es with S5 laslocks. Jump out, blast something to pieces, claim objective!

[Flint13]

The only issue I have there is that LRs (proteus and otherwise) are awesome but so darn expensive for what they do.

 

Not even equivalent points in destroyer rapier batteries far out perform them in at range in an army that doesn't really need an assault transport.

[Brofist]

Our group kicked off our reconquest campaign yesterday. I played x3 750 point militia lists in the first game and then x3 1000 point militia lists in the second. Two used "Abhuman Helots" and "Survivors of the Dark Age", the third used "Ferral Warriors" and "Cult Horde". It was a friendly narrative game so the lists weren't that tough.

 

Not bad Flint! "Abhuman Helots" and "Survivors of the Dark Age" basically makes Grenadiers into Marines. How's this for points-efficient:

20 Grenadiers, 2 plasma guns & bolters. BS4, T4, 4+ save. Whole squad costs only 165 points! They're only MEQs, but you can get a lot more than the Legiones Astartes can!

 

Despite not being fearless, these squads really shined. T4, 3+ save, and 30" range made them hard to shift. In melee they even beat a squad of reavers thanks to my lord commander being attached in the squad. Giving them discipline collars saved their bacon a few times as well. A solid unit.

 

The cult hordes of 30 man levy squads were slow, took up tons of room, slowed the game down, but also kept the enemy bottle necked. In the 3000 point game I had 4 of these and they lasted about 3 turns. They certainly have a purpose, but they die in droves and won't gain any ground for your army. In the mission types where you have to move into your enemy deployment zone these are probably going to hinder you more than they will help. I resisted giving them tainted flesh instead of feral warriors. This would have definitely given them an actual bite in melee, but I don't know if it's worth the sacrifice of having all your other infantry units fire at BS1.

 

I didn't take these options, but I realized there are some scary combos you can do with fire support squads combined with rogue psyker HQs, survivors of the dark age, and the planetary overlord rule. For example: x30 rerollable S6 AP3 heavy bolter shots every turn, or x20 rerollable S8 autocannon shots every turn. Ouch.

[Sheesh Mode]

What are peoples thoughts on using rhinos to transport your Dark Age grenadiers? Useful or not worth their points? I personally came up with an 1850 list that uses abhuman helots, dark age survivors, and 3 malcadors to get the job done.