Leviathan Siege Dread tactics

[Guiltysparc]

I am slightly confused about the pod rules...so when it lands, the doors open but the dread doesn't need to get out. I got that bit.

 

Can the dread be targeted directly or does the pod need to be destroyed first? The talk of ablative wounds via the pod's hull points is what's confusing me. Are we expecting that most people would opt to take out the pod rather than deal with the 3+ cover save from the shrouding?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Think of it as a normal, Open Topped transport. They only force the doors down to not block line of sight.

 

Most people drop their pod down near a target, preferably getting cover from heavy weapons. Assuming everything turned out well, you get to shoot out of your open topped transport, and then your opponent has to deal with the pod in cover with shroud (usually a 2+ save) before they can even targeting the dreadnought. Then the dreadnought gets to charge on your turn as the pod was open topped.

[Runefyre]

Perhaps you could make a dreadnought drop pod talon exempt from the drop assault special rule. you make one roll for all three, but lose the drop assault special rule.

[Runefyre]

No pods for talons is because they must be deployed within 6" of another dread in the talon. How does that work for follow-up pods? Do you aim for the first pod or its occupant? What happens if you don't land within 6 after scatter? Too much rule confusion.

My idea is that the drop pods come in on one dice roll (but lose the drop assault special rule), you place the first pod, scatter it, place the second pod within 6", scatter that one and same for the third one(perhaps they would get to scatter only d6", just an idea). The premise for this rule change is that dreadnought drop pod talons were used by the space wolves on prospero (so I assume other legions would do it as well). Not trying to make anything broken, just trying to be constructive.

[Terminus]

Think of it as a normal, Open Topped transport. They only force the doors down to not block line of sight.

 

Most people drop their pod down near a target, preferably getting cover from heavy weapons. Assuming everything turned out well, you get to shoot out of your open topped transport, and then your opponent has to deal with the pod in cover with shroud (usually a 2+ save) before they can even targeting the dreadnought. Then the dreadnought gets to charge on your turn as the pod was open topped.

The rules are kind of weird. You can stay inside the pod and use it as ablative HPs, or you can step out while keeping a toe on the pod to gain shrouding on the dread (and cover from the pod).

[Fangbanger]

The dreads 4+ is better however it has to get through a sudo void shield before it can hit the dread so pretty damn good idea staying put

[Terminus]

The dreads 4+ is better however it has to get through a sudo void shield before it can hit the dread so pretty damn good idea staying put

Cortus are only 5+.

[Guiltysparc]

Ah I see, I was thinking with the doors down you could shoot the dread for some reason. Makes total sense now that I think about it like any other open top transport.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

The dreads 4+ is better however it has to get through a sudo void shield before it can hit the dread so pretty damn good idea staying put

Cortus are only 5+.

This is the Leviathan dread tactics ;)

[Fangbanger]

^^ this... ;)

[ak1508]

Come to think of it, even if the whole talon of 3 dreads could get a DDP each, that would already make them a bit OP. And we would be getting a lot of the same complains I personally heard of how Eldar are OP and Tau are spamming with Riptides. Initially I kinda thought it would be cool, but after careful consideration - probably its for the best left unchanged afterall. So, no email spamming FW on that part... there will always be other reasons to flood their mail box anyway! 

[Slips]

Only under Orbital Assault can dreads possibly do this trick.

 

And with how much stuff OA is possibly lacking vs non OA lists, I'm kinda ok with this playing out.

[Terminus]

Come to think of it, even if the whole talon of 3 dreads could get a DDP each, that would already make them a bit OP. And we would be getting a lot of the same complains I personally heard of how Eldar are OP and Tau are spamming with Riptides. Initially I kinda thought it would be cool, but after careful consideration - probably its for the best left unchanged afterall. So, no email spamming FW on that part... there will always be other reasons to flood their mail box anyway! 

For whatever it's worth, one of the people at the Weekender said they discussed with Bligh some rules changes that may come in the eventual Crusade Army list update. This is where the non-specific discount on assault marines comes from, as well as the supposed clarification that you have to deploy within 2" of a dreadclaw and don't get a 6" move, and last but not least, that talons could take pods! I guess we'll see by year's end.

[Runefyre]

Only under Orbital Assault can dreads possibly do this trick.

 

And with how much stuff OA is possibly lacking vs non OA lists, I'm kinda ok with this playing out.

It would make sense in an Orbital Assault scenario imo, Leviathans in drop pods add much needed staying power to my lists. It could be a sorta kinda replacement for not having access to sicaran venators/deredeos. And I don't like having to use all my HS slots to field a talon of leviathans in drop pods. But if playtesting proves this idea to be unbalanced, I'm more than willing to put it to rest.

[ak1508]

But Sicaran Venator and a Deredeo both together will probably cost you less than a fully upgraded Levi. Essentially, if you dont upgrade a Venator with lascannons, but only with AC, then Aderedeo with missile launcher and AC, alltogether it will be 450 pts. Which is only 50 points more than having a Levi in a DDP. The main benifit I see with the Levi in DDP is its ability to land in enemy ranks and making full use of its ranged weapons and its CC capabilities, while a Deredeo and Venator obviously are lacking those things.

 

Also, regarding a DDP proxy using a plastic drop pod from GW - I asked in my local store and literally everyone said they would not give three f***s if I did it. Good idea of course to agree in advance, but everybody agreed that the changes it makes compare to how much more you pay for a chunk of resin that has nothign much to it is beyong measure. Just as I thought myself, if an opponent is being cheeky to you about this small matter that probably wont truly affect (or even ruin!) your gaming experience, then you should consider playing a different person. I personally agree and hence worth will be using the plastic DP as a DDP where appropriate. But that's just me :P 

[depthcharge12]

Um a regular leviathan is 270 points with nothing on it, and a drop pod is 65. I mean I'm only switching from a math major to accounting, but last I checked, that totaled to 335 points. Throw volkites and a grav flux on there for 360 points total. Still 90 points less than that total lol.

 

With those 90 points, I could get a loaded up Javelin, another rapier, 2 apothecaries, fill out a squad...and not use up another heavy support slot.

 

The point of Leviathan is to soak up damage and make your enemy freak out to give you some breathing room.

 

It ultimately comes down to what your list needs. If you're running a shooty list, take the Deredeo and Vindicator. Taking an in your face list? Then I'd recommend the Levi.

[Guiltysparc]

what we talked about volkite vs flamer much?  At first i was like, yaaaaa volkite! but since i'll be using these guys in pods i am now thinking maybe the heavy flamer is better...

 

I suppose it depends on what you are fighting.  If fighting a lot of lightly armored vehicals or monstrous creatures the higher strength on the volkite is probably better, but otherwise maybe the flamer is the way to go.

[helterskelter]

4 str6 reroll to hit shots, try and runaway from me will you av12 (for glance) and under (for pen)

Flamers will be good for thinning hordes if you play vs militia or 4+ saves often

[Guiltysparc]

ah, i did not notice that the cavs were twin linked.

[Ishagu]

Am I a crazy man for liking the Melta arm thingy?

[Slips]

NOPE!

 

It can one shot a knight if the dice feel like it having a maximum damage potential of 3+3D3 Hull Points in damage vs Super-Heavies.

 

Couple it with a Drill and if you get the Charge on a Knight after Dropping in and getting to Melta it at least once, said knight should be dead before it goes thanks to I5 on the Charge.

 

If it charges you, its still dead because you have S10 Armorbane Hits, shot it at least once with the Melta Lance and, if you're lucky, got an overwatch hit in.

 

I wrote about it a while back when I first saw its rules and its makes the Storm Cannon even more of a Worthless Weapon than it already was in my eyes.

[caladancid]

Am I a crazy man for liking the Melta arm thingy?

 

If that is wrong, I don't want to be right.

[Ishagu]

I think melta + claw with melta is the way to go.

Dammit GW, if grav wasn't so horrific against vehicles this thing would have a place in 40k... Then again, Marines need grav to compete.

 

In 30k, because Armoured Ceramite exists melta isn't as popular... And because no one is taking Melta, players aren't paying for the AC upgrade on their tanks...

[Ishagu]

Remind me again guys, a Walker can only fire two weapons a turn, is this correct?

[Slips]

Melta + Drill will deal with pretty much any AV and is what I'd run.

 

Grav + Claw + Phosphex is best suited for taking out fleshy stuff with a Toughness Value.

 

And screw the idea of Armored Ceramite stopping this thing. Its an issue with normal, feeble Melta but this thing is S9 Ap1 so it doesnt really care if you have armored ceramite or not it isnt neutered as strongly as its weaker cousin.

 

Remember, 40k Grav only does things to vehicles on a 6. But still has to get through its 4++ and/or the Dreadnought Drop Pod you 100% absolutely bought it because otherwise why take a Leviathan? with its 3 Shrouded Buffer Hull Points.

 

The only real threat to the Leviathan is a Centstar or Skyhammer Grav since they have Amps. Otherwise? Only 1 in 6 Grav Shots that hit will deal any damage.

 

But this is 30k. So leave that thinking at home.

 

I still always take armored ceramite on anything worth it (Av14) even if melta guns might not be present.

Remind me again guys, a Walker can only fire two weapons a turn, is this correct?

Walkers can move and shoot all their weapons.