Black Book - Insurrection (PUBLISHED)

[simison]

A question before we continue. Is there a specific character that I should compare Alexander K. to, Squig? 

 

As for the Leviathan's Chosen.... I think it'd be much stronger if the net was smaller. Right now, it throws big bonuses at Dephstriders, Battle-Automata, and Dreadnoughts. I suggest reducing it to two, or even just one group to focus on. 

 

Also, is there any RoW that has 5 benefits and 6 hindrances?

[Big Bad Squig]

A question before we continue. Is there a specific character that I should compare Alexander K. to, Squig? 

 

 

I don't think so, iirc I just worked using a generic praetor as a base and estimating points costs of special rules from there.

[Slips]

A question before we continue. Is there a specific character that I should compare Alexander K. to, Squig? 

 

As for the Leviathan's Chosen.... I think it'd be much stronger if the net was smaller. Right now, it throws big bonuses at Dephstriders, Battle-Automata, and Dreadnoughts. I suggest reducing it to two, or even just one group to focus on. 

 

Also, is there any RoW that has 5 benefits and 6 hindrances?

The main idea behind the RoW, its that you'd only be using Depthstriders, Automata and Dreadnoughts and pretty much nothing else.

[Chief Captain Redd]

The Bears' Claws RoW is similar in focusing units to use, I think you could make the stipulation that only Dreads and skimmers/flyers could be taken like the phaeton and such so you don't random Vindi spam with the tough as nails troop selection availability.

[Slips]

True Enough. Or, simply, Dreadnoughts (any kind and pods), Depthstriders (and dedicated transports) and Battle-Automata Listed are the only things able to be taken.

[simison]

Alexander Kharkovic

 

Comparison Cost: 100 points, (Praetor)

 

Attributes

• No Change
  

Total: 0 points

 

Wargear

 

• Kryl'ya: 40 points [20 for JP, 10 for Jink, 10 for Thunderous Charge]
  
• Archaeotech Pistol: 20 points
  
• Thunder Hammer: 25 points
  

 

Total: 85 points

 

Special Rules

• Primarchkin: 15 points
  
• Otherworldly Protection (Refractor Field): 10 points
  
• Psychic Void: 20 points
  
• Indomitable Will: 20 points
  

Total: 65 points

 

Total cost: 150 point

 

Unit Suggested Price: 250 Points

 

Notes

• Compared to some of my more recent calculations, this one was relatively straightforward. I appreciate that.
  
• Unfortunately, he's too expensive. He needs to shave off some points, and there's really no one area that has a point sink causing it. I suspect that the Pariah Legions are going to be struggling with the higher pointages, given their nature.
  
• Recommended cuts: Jink from the Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol instead of Archaeotech Pistol, and 9 inch range on Psychic Void. That's 35 points overall, which brings mini-Alex into a much more reasonable range of 215 points.
  

[simison]

 

A question before we continue. Is there a specific character that I should compare Alexander K. to, Squig? 

 

As for the Leviathan's Chosen.... I think it'd be much stronger if the net was smaller. Right now, it throws big bonuses at Dephstriders, Battle-Automata, and Dreadnoughts. I suggest reducing it to two, or even just one group to focus on. 

 

Also, is there any RoW that has 5 benefits and 6 hindrances?

The main idea behind the RoW, its that you'd only be using Depthstriders, Automata and Dreadnoughts and pretty much nothing else.

 

 

I just read a 1d4chan summary on every Legion RoW, and I can't find any that are this 'broad'. There are RoWs that provide benefits to one branch of an army (Ravenwing and bikes/jetbikes) or a single unique unit (IF Stone Gauntlet). None of them spread themselves out between both unique units (Depthstriders) and branches of the army (Dreadnoughts & Automata). 

 

It needs some tweaking.

[simison]

Karl Volkov

 

Comparison Cost: 100 points, (Praetor)

 

Attributes

• +1 WS: 5 points
  
• -1 BS : (-5) points
  
• +1 W: 10 points
  

Total: 10 points

 

Wargear

 

• Terminator Armour: 35 points 
  
• Volkite Charger: 7 points
  
• Lucifer Glaive: 35? points [+1 S - 10 points; Murderous Strike - 15 points; Deflagrate - 10 points; Piercing Blow - ?]
  

 

Total: 77? points

 

Special Rules

• Eternal Warrior: 25 points
  
• Feel No Pain: 15 points
  
• Fearless: 15 points
  
• Furious Charge: 10 points
  

Total: 65 points

 

Total cost: 152 point

 

Unit Suggested Price: 252 Points

 

Notes

• Too expensive.
  
• What is Piercing Blow?
  
• Why does he have Eternal Warrior?
  

[Grifftofer]

I think I need to call you on Murderous Strike costing 15pts, I think that is too much for what it is.

 

To compare: (Power Axe & Paragon Blade)

 

The paragon blade costs +10 pts, loses Unwieldy, and gains Specialist Weapon and Murderous Strike. So even if we were assuming that Unwieldy and Specialist Weapon are equivalent*, then Murderous Strike would be worth at most 10pts.

 

 

*I don't agree with this assertion. I believe the permanent setting of Initiative to 1 is a significantly worse penalty than the loss of the attack for two weapons. Especially when that penalty can be gotten around by picking a second Specialist Weapon.

[simison]

 

To compare: (Power Axe & Paragon Blade)

 

The paragon blade costs +10 pts, loses Unwieldy, and gains Specialist Weapon and Murderous Strike. So even if we were assuming that Unwieldy and Specialist Weapon are equivalent*, then Murderous Strike would be worth at most 10pts.

 

 

Hm, I can't argue against that logic. Though, I'm beginning to wonder if there should be a kind of 'class' restriction. Basically, certain advantages shouldn't be widely available, like Eternal Warrior. 

 

Although, next time, post it in the Calculator thread please.

 

And did anybody else take Murderous Strike that's been through the ropes?

[bluntblade]

Antonidas and possibly Odyssalas have it. Also Slips and I settled on Paragon of Glory for Odyssalas (the plan is that each of their name/rule-given leaders will have a different Warlord Trait)

[Chief Captain Redd]

For Death of the Bear are we going with Sigismund's account? If we are I had a couple edits I'd like to see, nothing huge but…

 

-I think we could go with less disorganization and more of the death happening from Bears trying to safeguard Titan and Knight bearing ships retreating.

 

-Also the Bears primary support of Daughters and Ogryns would be kinda hell even for Astartes but that's something we focus on in a later story.

 

-Daer'dd wouldn't use the Maul, he's got to kill two of his brothers he would use what he's most comfortable with.

 

-More Brutality…face bitting included, Bears augment their canines and nails to be more like their namesake and the legion even has a saying of "The enemy prays to their false gods are weapons t

Do not fail for then they'd have to fight a Bear tooth and claw".

 

Also I'm comfortable with 117,000 Bears dying during this battle.

 

Alright those are my too late night notes lol.

[simison]

Antonidas and possibly Odyssalas have it. Also Slips and I settled on Paragon of Glory for Odyssalas (the plan is that each of their name/rule-given leaders will have a different Warlord Trait)

 

Neither of which have been given a rules-check yet, so they're safe. I know none of the Grave Stalker characters have Eternal Warrior. Redd has it, but he's been greenlighted it awhile ago for it. Aandeg doesn't have it. And the Godslayers just reached this point. 

 

So, the real question is do the Godslayers warrant access to Eternal Warrior outside of the Primarch? I'm not sure because it doesn't seem like that the deity-specific legions get it, instead, they'll get all of the daemonic boosts when the time comes. 

 

Thus far, the Iron Bears have access through Redd. That leaves at least two more slots open for other legions. 

 

 

EDIT: Also, need to come up with a similar level of familiarity for Primarch vehicles. So far, I'm not aware of any of our Primarchs requesting one.

[Demus Ragnok]

Sim in regards to Eternal Warrior my plan for the FK was allow generic paetors to buy it (Adamantine Mantle) but have no characters with it. Also FK have no 3++, so not Salamander level beat stickery.

[MikhalLeNoir]

At the moment no warden has it. But i thought if giving it to scorpion as i will have only 2 character slots used.

 

I could also see it fitting to the legion Relict "agony", Arngrims axe. So preators and champions able to wield it are worthy to get the eternal warrior.

[simison]

Fire Keepers wish to claim one slot. As do the Wardens of Light.

 

Thinking on it, no psyker legion can lay claim to the Eternal Warrior buff, since they could theoretically get it through Endurance. That removes the Harbingers and the Halcyon Wardens from the running. The Iron Bears already get access, so that reduces the potential number of candidates to 15. I'm still debating barring the daemon legions from it, that would rule out the Drowned, the Godslayers, the Grave Stalkers, and the Berserkers of Uran. That leaves 11 candidates. 

 

Should any of the Pariah legions have access since they'll already get a unique tree to help stand them out?

 

Following up on the Primarch-transport topic, thus far, only Dorn and Perturabo have one. Neither of them have jump packs, so any of our jump pack or jet pack Primarchs will be out of the running. 

[MikhalLeNoir]

But pariah legions are compared to normal legions more expensive and are only really useful against psyker and daemon armies.

 

And from a fluff standpoint: Raiden Athrawes should have it.

[simison]

But pariah legions are compared to normal legions more expensive and are only really useful against psyker and daemon armies.

 

And from a fluff standpoint: Raiden Athrawes should have it.

 

Which is another reasons to remove them from the list. They're already going to be expensive without throwing in Eternal Warrior.

 

Why Athrawes? Abbadon doesn't have Eternal Warrior.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Abbadon has no arms, how can he be an eternal warrior?

 

Hmmm that is a point but then you have to consider legions specific rules as well because some give you a fnp reroll, some ignore fnp etc.

[Kelborn]

What exactly does the Eternal Warrior mean?

That someone can't die?

 

What does someone need to become an Eternal Warrior? Could fit one of my chiefs, Thoruk, who was the Legion master before Andezo and turns against his Primarch after Terra in order to stay loyal. (see timeline)

[simison]

It's an immunity to Instant Death. No more, no less. 

 

Usually, fluff-wise, it has to be a warrior of either tremendous skill or prestige. Again, the 40k examples are Dante, Calgar, and Grimnar. 30k examples would be Rhy'tan and Sigismund. 

[Big Bad Squig]

 

 

Notes

• Too expensive.
• What is Piercing Blow?
• Why does he have Eternal Warrior?

 

 

 

Ahh, Piercing Blow is the old 5+ Rending, I thought I'd edited that out all the profiles but I must have missed him.  Normal Rending would be the equivalent now.

 

In regards to Eternal Warrior, a couple of Godslayers characters had it previously (from a fluff standpoint because of their durability as a Legion, from a crunch standpoint because their Primarch was at the time lackluster in combat) and he was the only one that survived the initial cut.  He was essentially the Legion's fighting character, more so than Koschei, but after Koschei's update on Grifft's advice I'd be happy to remove the rule from Volkov.

[bluntblade]

Abbadon has no arms, how can he be an eternal warrior?

 

Hmmm that is a point but then you have to consider legions specific rules as well because some give you a fnp reroll, some ignore fnp etc.

ADB will throttle you if you carry on like that

[Chief Captain Redd]

Redd doesn't have eternal warrior anymore Hesh thought it made him too survivable.

[Slips]

Actually, Antonidas doesn't have EW, Inna does and thats because he's a special snowflake more than anything :p