[HH1.0] Thousand Sons tactica

[Sulemain]

To clarify, do you need to take a Legion Praevian or Forgelord with Cortex Controller to take Castellax-Achea?

[1ncarnadine]

Nope. They are controlled by having a psyker with LA(TSons) within 24". They're not really automata, they're golem puppets.

[TemujinZero]

No, no requirements. They're just a regular heavy support choice.

[Withershadow]

So power claws = power fists, do they have 2 power claws? Are they 3 attacks base? Or since it just says "power claws" you use their given profile?

[Withershadow]

 

The power is not useless even if you're rerolling ones, because getting shred on sniper rifles that are always wounding on 4+ is pretty good. Plus, I'm half convinced they will be better as a forward nuncio vox and backup melee/anti-tank unit rather than snipers sitting on an objective. They don't score unlike Recon squads, so no point just parking them in one place.

But they have sniper rifles and scout armor, parking them is what they're designed for. Sure they can take a meltabomb and two meltaguns, but then you're paying for primary equipment you're not using. Sure, you don't always use the kit you have like bolt pistols, frags, etc but those are base-level standard equipment just about everyone outside termis get landed with. You're paying for the added sniper rifles. With the short range of meltas, and even shorter for using a meltabomb, their range is wasted. If only they could take shotguns or even bolters. That would increase their value tremendously. I'm also not saying Mind Killer is bad, just that most of the time a third of it won't be needed. Perhaps its more for meltaguns or plasmaguns in the unit, but again, sniper rifles.

 

Eh, whether you pay for them or not, sniper rifles are crap. It's like frag grenades on your heavy support squads.  Somewhere in their basic cost you paid for that equipment.  The sniper rifles are a back-up weapon when you have nothing better to do or are camped on a point (again if they could score, I would consider a static unit a lot more).  A bolt pistol shot, followed by hammer of wrath, and 3 attacks per member re-rolling to hit and to wound seems more useful. 10 guys inflict 30 wounds against other Astartes.

 

I would have to see how they work as a bodyguard for Ben Kingsley.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Withershadow

[Caillum]

So power claws = power fists, do they have 2 power claws? Are they 3 attacks base? Or since it just says "power claws" you use their given profile?

Good question. They specifically mention having 2 power claws, so that's 5 S6 AP2 attacks on the charge (being Monstrous Creatures). If they're meant to be power fists, wow. Auto-include. I'd say they not though.

[Nusquam]

Let's breakdown the scouts, because it's not just what they can do, it's also at what price they do it at and outside the vacuum..

 

235 For 20 psyscouts. 23.5 ppm. An assault squad is 175 base. You get power armor and a jump pack, but lose mind killer. For another 30 points you could get 3 power weapons on the AMs too. If you also time your attacks well enough you could give them two hammer of wrath attacks with pyrae.

 

10 psyscouts under mind killer would kill 6 marines on the charge. 10 AMs with 3 power swords will kill about 4. That is assuming no casualties taken, in a vacuum, without anyone hitting them back. If you attack a 10 man tac unit you have a good chance to make them fall back and sweep with either unit so it doesnt matter which you took at that point, but if you get stuck in the AMs are going to survive longer and end up killing more.

 

The scouts only have a 4+, they have stealth and MtC too so you could potentially infiltrate 18" and sneak about closer. But the odds of them not getting shot are very low if you don't have other bigger threats up in your opponents face. The odds of AMs getting into CC at full strength are low too, but they have power armor so they're less dependent on cover and therefore less likely to get screwed over by terrain/deployment. Then quad mortars exist and you could dump frag shells on them and kill just as many for less.

 

You could taken two plasma and double tap 2+/2+/AP2 with ignores cover to kill 4 marines immediately and just harass the line with plasmaguns. They have defensive grenades and if they're in cover your opponent would get a -2 to charge and you'd have twinlinked snapshots with shred still. Or skirt the line and take two meltaguns to fry 2 marines and then charge. That would edge them out assuming they don't get panic-killed by being deployed too aggressively. There's a lot of factors involved with that you can't account for if you don't know the kind of terrain you'll be on.

 

They do have built in savings too(which I admittedly forgot to look at first like I normally do with every unit), for only 10 points over Recons in scout armor with sniper rifles, without camo, they get BS5, ML1/Mind Killer, stealth, infiltrate(weird considering they have scout armor already), shroud bombs, and a CCW. Which is more a lot more savings than I thought they would have. I'm not used to even considering Recons as RG so I forgot they dont start with a lot of kit already ha. With that taken into consideration I think they would make for a good denial unit. Harrow enemy scoring on an hard to reach, for you, objective. Kite them, and when you can, stand and fire sniper rifles too. Now, there's still better ways to do that; quad mortars for example will just kill the enemy unit. But it makes them a little wider in their niche. I know I'm going to make a unit eventually for rule of cool anyway, so I'll be testing them at some point so we'll see. If not for sneaky desert nomads, I want ignores cover orbitals ha.

[Excessus]

Don't forget when the psyscouts don't charge, they have shroud bombs and is likely to be in terrain.

[Nusquam]

I think you missed my second to last paragraph

[Excessus]

I think you missed my second to last paragraph

 

Heh, for some reason I did. It must be the fumes of my brand new Mephiston Red spraycan messing with my head...

 

BUT, a valid reason to use the newest addition to the smiley family!  :facepalm:

[Frater Cornelius]

Wow, the combo potential within the army is insane and Magnus is better left untouched. Not sure how to feel about it as a whole, but it is a damn interesting army nonetheless.

[Mango Polo]

 

So power claws = power fists, do they have 2 power claws? Are they 3 attacks base? Or since it just says "power claws" you use their given profile?

Good question. They specifically mention having 2 power claws, so that's 5 S6 AP2 attacks on the charge (being Monstrous Creatures). If they're meant to be power fists, wow. Auto-include. I'd say they not though.

 

I asked the question to Alan, power claws are power fists.

[Zeratil]

What do people think of the Achea? Gorgeous model and it's certainly a little different than the baseline castellax although the lack of frag grenades is a big strike against them I feel, even with their better defences.

[Nusquam]

Pure gold. A bunch of S10 AP2 at I4, IWND, only need a psyker nearby(easy for TS), doesn't need a cortex controller to unlock but still has all the normal buffs like firing three weapons, psychic relay, flat 5++, and asphyx rounds for only 30 points more. They will destroy in Zone Mortalis. Sure they don't have frags but with the grenade nerf you'd only have to worry about dedicated CC units really hitting them, and most of the time they'll be at I1 too anyway. They'll also ID W2 termis thanks to S10.

[Charlo]

Yeah, the Psychic Golems are everything I ever wanted. The plasma cannons are money too, so cool. Plus you don't need to use a HQ slot on a forge lord! Perfect.

 

A big, expensive unit of them is a really nice heavy support slot.

 

Its a shame the AEther cannons are kinda useless anywhere else in the list - certainly wouldn't take a heavy squad of them.

[Mango Polo]

As a stand-alone, the Castellax-Achea compares really well to its generic cousin. This one strikes at S10 naturally, the other needs to pay 20 points for a Siege Wrecker. You lose Concussive from the Shock Chargers, but gain Shred on all bolt weapons. Totally worth it IMO.

 

On the other hand, a Praevian can give a group of Castellax LA: TS and the Raptora Arcana. Castellax and Vorax with 4++ are deliciously resilient.

 

Both have their place in the army!

[Zeratil]

Yeah, my plan is to just use the Achea minis when the come out for both them and a normal castellax unit as the model looks so good and some magnets can be used for weapon swapping.

[Charlo]

As a stand-alone, the Castellax-Achea compares really well to its generic cousin. This one strikes at S10 naturally, the other needs to pay 20 points for a Siege Wrecker. You lose Concussive from the Shock Chargers, but gain Shred on all bolt weapons. Totally worth it IMO.

 

On the other hand, a Praevian can give a group of Castellax LA: TS and the Raptora Arcana. Castellax and Vorax with 4++ are deliciously resilient.

 

Both have their place in the army!

 

Oh god don't tell me that!

 

SHIELDS TO FULL CAPTAIN.

[Charlo]

Random question:

 

Magnus taking Sanctic Daemonology.... Normally you perils on any double as per the BRB.

 

BUT Magnus only perils on a triple 6, and as this is an "advanced rule" it overrides the BRB... Correct?

[Runefyre]

Probably Magnus perils on any triple would be my guess.

After reading through your guys rules, I'm very happy for Tsons players. You guys have an insane amount of variety (for more than the Wolves), and everything is POWERFUL.

 

Magnus is the BIG mess up.

[Mango Polo]

Delegatus

Rite of War: Zone Mortalis Strike Force

Raptora, Divination

AA, Refractor, weapon of choice

 

Breachers

Raptora

AA, Breaching Charge, weapon of choice

 

Apothecarion Detachment

Whatever

AA, Augury Scanner

 

 

That's a blob of 4++ (shooting)/ 3++ (cc) marines with FNP. Immune to Cold Void.

Still points left over for other additions; can even drop the Apoth to make space for a Castellax-Achea or a Praevian + buddy.

Every Divination power except one will serve this core extremely well.

 

While I'm a bit sad about our named characters, our generic options are a joy to build armies with. TS should scale amazingly well.

[Charlo]

I think that is my favorite thing about the sons, they make the generic units interesting. Much moreso than any other legion almost.

 

Also, I don't think Magnus is a big mess. He's strong - sure, but if he was much weaker, he wouldn't be living up to his name of the most powerful Psyker bar Big E would he?

[Frater Cornelius]

Following fluff to a point makes for bad game balance though ;)

[Halandaar]

Also, I don't think Magnus is a big mess. He's strong - sure, but if he was much weaker, he wouldn't be living up to his name of the most powerful Psyker bar Big E would he?

 

I think that's fair; I mean, he has to be powerful to live up to his lore reputation. That's not so say there aren't a couple of things which will make him about as popular on the gaming table as an Eldar Scatterbike army.

[Black Cohort]

 

 

Also, I don't think Magnus is a big mess. He's strong - sure, but if he was much weaker, he wouldn't be living up to his name of the most powerful Psyker bar Big E would he?

I think that's fair; I mean, he has to be powerful to live up to his lore reputation. That's not so say there aren't a couple of things which will make him about as popular on the gaming table as an Eldar Scatterbike army.

He would be fine if priced properly, but putting him at a price that he can fit in 2k games means he should have abilities worth that price not a bunch of other ones as well for fluff reasons.

 

Perhaps he should have had two profiles? A weaker one that fits in at 2k and an unfettered version that you can only take at 3k or more.