[HH1.0] Thousand Sons tactica

[Purge the Daemon]

We have several nice melee options, whether it's durable and sweeping terminators or blade Cult, so I'm gravitating towards buffing units. Herald is interesting.

 

Herald with artificer armor, boarding shield, power fist, ML1, Pavoni - 150

12" bubble of +1" run/charge, re-roll 1s in melee, unit he joins has defensive grenades, +1 to sweeps, biomancy on 3+

 

Forgelord with force axe, rad grenades, familiar, refractor field, MBs, ML1, Raptora - 155

-1T to enemies (for all those force axes), 3++ save (could also go fist/shield), Telepathy

 

Primus Medicae - several examples already posted, great for Sekhmet squads specifically, Raptora Cataphracts or Pavoni Tartaros

 

Speaking of Sekhmet, are we making a mistake with all these force axes? For the vast majority of opponents, a powerfist insta-kills and denies FNP to anything that doesn't have eternal warrior, with an easier to-wound roll and no need to spend warp charges.

 

If you really want to use force to kill Mechanicum robots, you'll struggle to wound many of them at S5, and there are always Blade Cult who has more volume of attacks, our own better automatagolems, our better shredding veterans, or traditional Legion guns.

 

The squad does get expensive at 61 per model for the first 5 but additional ones are quite economical. ~400 points of Raptora Cataphracts flying around should make anyone nervous.

 

Maybe a mix? 300 points even for chainfist, 2 fists, 2 axes.

While fists are good you'd lose the force active which can be just as good vs multi wound models especially mech. The only issue is anti armour.

[Nusquam]

It's rerolls of 1 when you charge, it's a slightly worse Hatred. Plus the Herald is worth two VPs, one for his rules, and one for being the WL. The Eye banner is the better of the banners, but he's still a huge target.

 

As for the Sekhmets and axes vs fists they do start to get expensive. One advantage they have of being a more recently created unit is that they seem to have a better cost formula applied to them. They're in between Phoenix Termis(extremely over-priced) and Deathshroud(Under-priced). They're a good value, but aren't necessarily cheap. I'd limit to a few fists and keep them in the back so if they get shot/punched then axes would die first. Save those points for buying more models. Force Staves would look amazing visually and destroy militia/solar aux or any other non-marine.

[defl0]

I wrote a tactics article on 30KSons in my blog. 

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2017/02/thousand-sons-30k-tactics-know-your.html

 

LMK if I got anything wrong. 

[Mango Polo]

I wrote a tactics article on 30KSons in my blog. 

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2017/02/thousand-sons-30k-tactics-know-your.html

 

LMK if I got anything wrong. 

I'm pretty sure it's only the Twin-Linked rule that allows flamers to re-roll wounds, not re-roll to hit.

e. Yep. Blasts benefit from re-roll to hit, templates do not.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Mango Polo

[Withershadow]

I wrote a tactics article on 30KSons in my blog. 

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2017/02/thousand-sons-30k-tactics-know-your.html

 

LMK if I got anything wrong. 

Asphyx rounds cannot be given to heavy bolters, may want to be more specific than "bolt weapons". A recent list in this thread already made that mistake, so it's bound to happen again.

 

Disagree that Pyrae's Hammer of Wrath and Pyromancy don't really have synergy.  Look no further than Sekhmet Tartaros Terminators, who can do a real number on large units.  PIck Fiery Form as one of your powers, and now you have sweeping 2+/4++ W2 terminators with hammer of wrath and soul blaze. Take Sunburst as the second power and you can re-roll the wounds on it due to Fiery Form. A Pavoni Biomancer Primus Medicae (we have the best titles, don't we?) adds +1 to sweeping rolls, FNP and biomancy buffs.

 

I suspect the biggest balancing factor to all our psychic infantry will be all the perils of the warp we'll be rolling. :D

[Learn2Eel]

I wrote a tactics article on 30KSons in my blog. 

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2017/02/thousand-sons-30k-tactics-know-your.html

 

LMK if I got anything wrong. 

I'm not sure if a power cast by a Brotherhood of Psykers would affect an attached Independent Character, at least a power that says "targets the Psyker" like Iron Arm does. Not a big deal though, I'll let others hash that one out. 

 

I'd argue Magnus gets the most out of rolling all but one of his powers on Pyromancy and then fishing either for a good Biomancy power or just grabbing Smite. Pyromancy gives you four separate Witchfire powers, whereas Biomancy only has two. Biomancy also doesn't have a Nova which is the most abusive type of power to combine with Magnus. Of course, the Pyromancy powers lack AP2-AP3 so that is a consideration depending on what you face; however, for getting the most Destroyer attacks possible out of your Psychic phase, Pyromancy + Smite is the way to go. Rolling everything on Biomancy would still work wonders though of course. If you really want Invisibility, have another unit roll for it - like Amon. You've also got Magnus listed as a HQ There's some errors on the warp charge costs of the powers you listed in his entry. 

 

Sekhmet can't take Biomancy, they are restricted to Pyromancy and Telekinesis. However, per the strict wording of the rules they get to pick their powers from those two disciplines rather than randomly determine them! 

 

A 10-strong Khenetai unit would be Weapon Skill 6, the buff gives them +1 Weapon Skill and +2 Attacks at the full unit size. Something to note with the Rapiers, whether joined by a Psyker or not just make them Corvidae and upgrade the guns to have Shatter Shells; congratulations, your anti-tank game is even crazier than other Legions' for no additional cost! With regards to Rotor Cannon Support Squads, the main thing they have over Veterans is the range advantage; getting Veterans into rapid fire range is really easy with Thousand Sons thanks to Ahriman and Amon but it's still an important consideration. 

 

The big thing with the Ammitara and their power potentially affecting attached characters is a Master of Signal's Orbital Bombardment, it's downright brutal! Giving them Corvidae also isn't a terrible idea if you can't get their power off for whatever reason. The Castellax-Achea have 5 attacks each on the charge, not 6; Rage replaces the normal charge bonus rather than stacking with it. The Power Claws are also Power Fists as confirmed by Alan Bligh so they are actually Strength 10 AP2! 

 

Your article seems to be implying that the Cult chosen for a unit dictates what powers they must use. Thankfully, this isn't actually the case; having a particular Cult just means that psykers cast the powers of their Cult on a 3+ rather than 4+, so you could take Ahriman as your Warlord for his awesome Warlord Trait and still give - for example - compulsory Terminator Troops the Biomancy powers.

 

I would also say that Thousand Sons do anti-tank no worse than any other particular Legion as they still get access to all the same options. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, Rapier Quad Guns with Shatter Shells and Corvidae are even better anti-tank compared to the other Legions' Rapiers. Sekhmet are also nice anti-tank as they can simply pick Objuration Mechanicum to throw out Haywire hits on nearby vehicles. Also, Magnus with any Nova power will ruin a mechanized list the moment he gets that Nova off and doesn't fluff his rolls! 

 

You wrote a nice article! Those are the only issues I could find, there's not too much to fix up

Edited February 8, 2017 by Learn2Eel

[Learn2Eel]

Actually guys, I just checked the 40K FAQs. 

"How does a power that targets ‘the Psyker’ but not his unit work on a unit with Brotherhood of Psykers? If, for example, a Wyrdvane Psyker squad casts Iron Arm, does one model nominated as ‘the caster’ receive the benefits? A: The power applies to all ‘Brotherhood of Psykers’ models in the unit."

Does Brotherhood of Psykers confer on any attached Independent Characters? As special rules tend to explicitly state if they do or don't, I'd say the answer is no. In any case, it seems like a safe bet that a Khenetai unit casting Iron Arm would not then confer Iron Arm to an attached Praetor. However, I'm unclear as to whether the Ammitari power would work on attached Independent Characters as it says "psyker unit". Note that powers like Iron Arm say "psyker" not "psyker unit". 

EDIT: Oops, sorry for the double post, I thought I hit edit on the big one :(

Edited February 8, 2017 by Learn2Eel

[dansupvi]

can somebody explain how the cult arcana rule works? which units get it? every unit with legiones astartes (TS)?

[Excessus]

Yes, it's part of the LA:TS rule

[Mango Polo]

I wrote a tactics article on 30KSons in my blog. 

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2017/02/thousand-sons-30k-tactics-know-your.html

 

LMK if I got anything wrong. 

One more thing: Ahriman's Cabal Command Squad is forced into Corvidae + Divination, so no Biomancy. It does, on the other hand, mean a 1/3 chance of getting Precognition for re-rolling hits/wounds/saves.

[defl0]

can somebody explain how the cult arcana rule works? which units get it? every unit with legiones astartes (TS)?

 

I thought this was really unclear as well... but I'm pretty sure it's part of kson astartes rule. 

[defl0]

Thank you all for the feedback! 

 

Updating the article. 

[Angmarred]

Posted my 2nd attempt at a Pride list in the Army List forum. Please take a look and comment :)

[1ncarnadine]

The Sekhmet "may choose powers from Pyromancy and Telepathy" (not must). Could they still be able to generate from other disciplines? Seems like Prosperine Lore leaves them open to generate powers from elsewhere but they'd have to roll randomly on those.

[Charlo]

The Sekhmet "may choose powers from Pyromancy and Telepathy" (not must). Could they still be able to generate from other disciplines? Seems like Prosperine Lore leaves them open to generate powers from elsewhere but they'd have to roll randomly on those.

 

Hmm... Maybe that is to do with the certain cults being in power at this time? A good spot indeed.

 

Though, considering you can take Psychic Maelstrom & Levitation to just fly around ending people - harnessing on a 3++ with Kine Shields... YEAH.

 

"My Terminators move 18" a turn and can drop a S10 AP1 Large Blast that doesn't need LoS then shoot S4 Shredding bolters/ Combis at something else. What can your's do?" 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Charlo

[Gawain Veteris]

In the case of Sekhmet Cabals I feel the wording on how they select their powers is tricky.

 

It does seem clear that the wording is intended to restrict these units to a specific set of Psychic Powers (though with Cult Arcana, not necessarily Pyrae and Raptorae). I feel that the Cult Arcana is aimed at giving units a theme as much as the army. Sekhmet Cabals can choose a cult that doesn't correspond to their specific Psychic power set but Cult Arcana encourages it.

 

The thing I'm struggling with is the 'choose' rather than 'select' or 'roll' for example. There are one or two interpretations here (but admittedly maybe wishful thinking).

 

A. 'They may choose their powers...': Limitation: They can only use powers from Tel. and Pyro. Pro: They can choose them rather than rolling?

B. 'They may choose their powers...': They still need to roll but they can only use powers from only Pyro. & Tel.?

C. 'They may choose their powers...' Pro: They can 'choose' their powers from Pyro. and Tel. but must roll for any other disciplines?

 

Also, I'm not sure if it has been covered yet, but Sekhmet Cabals will straight up murder ICs anyway but with Force their Force Weapons gain the Instant Death. Shamelessly love this unit...

Edited February 8, 2017 by Gawain Veteris

[Charlo]

Zardu Ly-whatever from Word Bearers is the same wording, and confirmed by FW to be able to individually chose powers IIRC.

[Frater Cornelius]

Levitation it is :D

[Angmarred]

I like levitation and the haywire

[Gawain Veteris]

Zardu Ly-whatever from Word Bearers is the same wording, and confirmed by FW to be able to individually chose powers IIRC.

 

Thanks for that.

 

So it follows that, as Prosperine Lore allows Thousand Sons Psykers to generate their powers from all disciplines except Malefic Daemonology, A Sekhmet Terminator Cabal could choose any power from Pyro. or Tel. and then roll for other disciplines, but why would you if you could choose... Such Psychic Maelstrom and Levitation... Then of course you get Primaris: Assail from Telekinesis from Psychic Focus and Force for your Force Weapons to Insta.Death your enemies. I'm gonna need more terminators... 

[Withershadow]

 

I'd argue Magnus gets the most out of rolling all but one of his powers on Pyromancy and then fishing either for a good Biomancy power or just grabbing Smite. Pyromancy gives you four separate Witchfire powers, whereas Biomancy only has two. Biomancy also doesn't have a Nova which is the most abusive type of power to combine with Magnus. Of course, the Pyromancy powers lack AP2-AP3 so that is a consideration depending on what you face; however, for getting the most Destroyer attacks possible out of your Psychic phase, Pyromancy + Smite is the way to go.

 

I think that's part of the point, anyone actually using Magnus to his full ridiculous capability is playing the wrong game and should probably be cast adrift. :P

 

I can't wait until he is FAQ'd.

 

 

 

Posted my 2nd attempt at a Pride list in the Army List forum. Please take a look and comment

I like it, pretty solid amount of boots on the ground for such an expensive army.  I've noticed that most of my lists end up being both small in bodies and short on the usual Legion toys.  I don't mind, since it does make a for a drastically different playstyle from my other armies.  This is my current Pride list:

 

Ahriman - 225

Primus Medicae - Raptora, Biomancer, Cataphractii, thunder hammer, ML1 - 160

Primus Medicae - Pavoni, Biomancer, Tartaros, force staff, ML1 - 155

Troops: 9x Veterans - ML1, telepathy, asphyx, marksmen, 1x plasmagun, sgt with AA/axe - 233

Rhino+Dozer=40

Troops: 10x Veterans - ML1, telepathy, asphyx, marksmen, 2x plasmaguns, sgt with AA/axe - 260

Rhino+Dozer=40

Troops: 9x Raptora Cataphractii Sekhmet - ML2, TK, 6x combi-plasmas, 3x chainfists - 455

Troops: 9x Pyrae Tartaros Sekhmet - ML2, Pyromancy, 6x combi-meltas, 3x chainfists - 455

Heavy Support: Fire Raptor - 240

Heavy Support: Kharybdis - 235

2498

 

First turn opens with a Kharybdis dropping from the sky with the Pyrae inside. Ahriman goes with the Veterans and gives both Vet units and the Raptora Sekhmet Scout for a bit more board pressure right off the bat. He buffs nearby units with Divination, while Vets roll on Telepathy for shriek + whatever. Raptora get Levitate to be able to move around, and another ability of my choice (nova or haywire or even telekine bubble to protect the veteran squads).  Pyrae get Fiery Form and either Molten Beam or Sunburst depending on whether I'm facing heavy/elites or lots of infantry.  12 warpcharges base. Fire Raptor there as just the most cost-efficient and all-in-one flyer and transport handler.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Withershadow

[Mango Polo]

Reading some more. Guard of the Crimson King means Magnus no longer carries the Price of Failure penalty, unlike Primarch's Chosen.

 

Honestly the more I read, the more poorly designed this seems.

[Charlo]

But that's because it's a different RoW?

[Mango Polo]

You don't say :P

 

I'm talking about strength/value/drawbacks/yada yada.

[Icarus1138]

A bit of clarification: If I take an Osiron Dreadnought as my sole HQ, am I making my army immune to the "if you lose all IC's your men are -1Ld" penalty?