[HH1.0] Thousand Sons tactica

[exsanguis]

Hey guys,

 

How the do the new 40k Thousand Sons kits (Rubrics and Scarab Occult) look when used for 30k? From what I can tell with a red paint job they would almost look the part for Vets and Skhmet in Tartaros armour. I haven't seen the kits in the flesh yet, is there much in the way of "Tzeentchian" bling on them that the pics on GW's site doesn't show?

[Excessus]

Almost no tzeentch of chaos bling on them.

[hhhdan]

Sekhmet are scoring in Pride lists, seeing as they are Elites.

 

yeah they can be taken as troops there too, i forgot

Hey guys,

 

How the do the new 40k Thousand Sons kits (Rubrics and Scarab Occult) look when used for 30k? From what I can tell with a red paint job they would almost look the part for Vets and Skhmet in Tartaros armour. I haven't seen the kits in the flesh yet, is there much in the way of "Tzeentchian" bling on them that the pics on GW's site doesn't show?

 

they have very little obvious tzeentch symbols. I'm using the scarab occult as tartaros Sekhmet and thousand sons as the artificer armour sergeants, as all of my infantry are in MK4 with achean upgrades.

[hhhdan]

 

 

I am quite scared of the Crimson King RoW that lets you run Sekhmet squads as troops. While their stats are not as high as Firedrakes, for 45 points less and in cataphractii armor they get a 2+/3++ rerolling 1's when they deepstrike (which is insane that they don't have to pay for DS and get rerolls) not to mention they get a pocket demolisher cannon from their psychic discipline, asphyx shells, stubborn, 2W, and force weapons all for the low low cost of 255 points.

 

Toss in a PM and get a FNP on that and victory points back (5+) if your opponent somehow destroys the Sekhmet. I'd say charge them with dreadnoughts...but you can take chainfist son on the units too!

 

One last thing to mention about them being in cat armor, is that they do not suffer pinning checks from the TS rule as cataphractii armor prevents you from going to ground. Units that cannot go to ground automatically pass pinning checks.

 

I hate to poop in anyone's cereal, but I think they are massively undercosted. They should at least be in the realm of 300 points per squad of 5 like firedrakes. Even Justaerin can't reliably deal with Sekhmet because of their insane ++. At best, any special terminators will trade with the Sekhmet, at worst, your terminators or assault units will get obliterated from the psychic demolisher cannon, asphyx rounds, and force weapons to negate any 2 W.

 

I hope this doesn't come across whiny, it's more of like, what the hell was FW smoking?

I agree that they are undercosted and should be about 40 pts per model and around 275-280 base.

 

There are a few things that Firedrakes are better at over them, firstly they are WS5 and all are Ld9 and Sergeant has 3 Attacks, plus they are all immune to fear as they are salamanders and re-roll one D6 for morale checks, also concussive thunder hammers are better than power fists. Plus they can score in any rite of war, Sekhmet can score only in guard of the Crimson King or if you take Magnus. And if you want 3++ for them in guard of the Crimson King, you have to take Raptora praetor or Magnus.

 

However the flexibility they have with choosing powers and having 3++ by just choosing Raptora and not sacrificing shooting for it overshadows their drawbacks ... (not great shooting but still, combi weapons are quite good)

 

Oh, also you can get 3++ in Tartaros Armour even, if you really want to. Just choose raptora cult and fiery form power. When you cast it the whole unit gets 4++ invul, which is improved to 3++ from raptora...

While thunder hammers may beat fists force weapons destroy custodes and mech on a whole new level. Sekhmet trade 1 to 1 with the best of the custodes never mind the ability to take combi weapons with a 3++ is amazing and unique to them.

 

Salamanders also have a charge penalty of -1 and I can't really see needing magnus to score as a downside...

 

Also the cost compared to stock terminators for additional models is insane. For those who don't know it's a melta bomb more for +1w, unit has mastery level 2, asphyx shells and force weapons for free, cheaper combi weapon than legion terminators, gain stubborn and pick their psychic powers. This is on top of the 3++ the get for being raptora cataphracti.

 

 

As i said, i agree that they should be more expensive overall.

 

Thunder hammers are better against eternal warriors stuff, like primarchs, special characters and even custodes HQs, force weapons are great, but you can't take a whole squad of just them, as then you are useless against vehicles, so you need a couple of chainfists in there... 

 

having +1W, force weapons and asphyx shells for a small increase like that is too good and i think they should have been 40 each. 

 

But while picking powers is great, i think they could have been better if they generated them normally, but had access to all powers...

 

Oh one last thing i forgot that firedrakes are better at is having an Eternal warrior praetor that can tank any incoming instant killing shots.

[Withershadow]

They do have access to all the powers.

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

My understanding is that Sekhemet can choose any discipline (minus Malefic) but if they are taking powers from Pyromancy or Telekinesis they can choose which powers they want.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Legionaire of the VIIth

[Nusquam]

Yeah they "may choose" powers from TK an PM, otherwise you follow the normal rules for psykers which is generating from what's available. I thought it limited them at first, but it doesn't. Every biomancy power is great for them if you don't need them for AT.

 

When fighting drakes it's important to get the drop on them for model placement. Even if they have an EW Praetor tanking their attacks are still instant death if they try to LoS! to spread them, which will help kill the other drakes. And should they spread/tank the wounds or fail LoS! at least they can't take FnP saves. Enfeeble, iron arm, and/or endurance will prevent the Sekhmet from getting gibbed by fists/hammers.

[NemoVonUtopia]

I am wondering if it is worth taking regular legion terminators instead of the sekhmet other than to save points since they have access to things like auto cannons, grenade harness, or thunder hammers. 

 

Also, I am planning to get an Osiron Dreadnaught because it looks awsome and am trying to decide what other arm would best be able to take advantage of psychic powers. 

[Withershadow]

None of things are something I bother taking anyway. Ever.

 

5 with fists and combi-weapons are 45 points cheaper than 5 Sekhmet with force blades and combi-weapons, so that's something.

 

For Osiron, I'm thinking another arm with chainfist.

[Nusquam]

It's a tough comparison with Sekhmet vs Legion. Sekhmet have two wounds and a lot of discounts. But if you keep legion termis cheap enough you can get multiple units. That way they split up enemy fire and can cover more objectives. I'd say if you want psychic termis outside the Crimson RoW you need to ask yourself if you need a rock or a pair of scissors in your list.

[Purge the Daemon]

I am wondering if it is worth taking regular legion terminators instead of the sekhmet other than to save points since they have access to things like auto cannons, grenade harness, or thunder hammers.

 

Also, I am planning to get an Osiron Dreadnaught because it looks awsome and am trying to decide what other arm would best be able to take advantage of psychic powers.

 

Honestly I've never had the desire for autocannons especially a solo one. Thunder hammers are okay when free but I wouldn't waste points on them otherwise, only really useful vs primarchs. And you don't care for a grenade harnesses if you are unwieldy anyways so that points moot. Honestly Sekhmet gain so much for the cost I'd always take them over stock terminators.

 

Realistically any other arm is fine the force weapon is there to kill anything mechanicum can toss your way. A chain fist might be nice for a bonus Attack and multi purpose. Otherwise go to gun is normally a kheres.

[Marshal Loss]

What do people actually think of the Osiron? Is it any good?

[Athrawes]

What do people actually think of the Osiron? Is it any good?

 

I've had a chance to use it twice now at 3000 points and I can't help but feel that it's nice but unimpressive.

 

I've been running it with Telepathy, rolling there to fish for invisibilty to make her a buff unit, but I happily settle for psychic shriek.

 

I imagine Osiron Contemptors would be much more useful if you regularly face mechanicum so that its str 10 Force weapon could help carve through toughness 6+ robots.

 

For the most part what you're paying for is 50 points for 1 ML, which you can find cheaper else where. By no means is it bad, but I'm not sure that I'll include it regularly in place of a standard contemptor unless I have 50 points spare to give myself and extra ML for generating warp charges.

[Withershadow]

It's pretty expensive, especially if you also add a transport.

 

My plan is to try running it with Amon, who can give it outflank and thus save some points on the transport.  It could be rough though if you end up on an abandoned flank. 

 

The model is just too pretty not to break out at least occasionally.

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

What do people actually think of the Osiron? Is it any good?

I've had a chance to use it twice now at 3000 points and I can't help but feel that it's nice but unimpressive.

 

I've been running it with Telepathy, rolling there to fish for invisibilty to make her a buff unit, but I happily settle for psychic shriek.

 

I imagine Osiron Contemptors would be much more useful if you regularly face mechanicum so that its str 10 Force weapon could help carve through toughness 6+ robots.

 

For the most part what you're paying for is 50 points for 1 ML, which you can find cheaper else where. By no means is it bad, but I'm not sure that I'll include it regularly in place of a standard contemptor unless I have 50 points spare to give myself and extra ML for generating warp charges.

They look dope but really there biggest use is vs mechanicum and custodes otherwise they are kind of lacklustre. But that's truly the nature of a force weapon dreadnought it's supposed to just instant kill things which sucks vs 10 point models but is amazing vs 300 point ones. An extra warp charge is always good is it the most efficient one no but is it one yes. If I was going to take a Contemptor Id use it if I wouldn't have taken a Contemptor before I wouldn't field it.

[dansupvi]

dumb question, can u run and use psychic powers in the same turn? 

[Excessus]

Yes

[BrotherLeonidas]

Do units that have Brotherhood of Psykers get Psychic Focus? So if I roll on pyromancy I would get the result and the primaris?

 

Also do psychic shooting attacks benefit from Sniper on Veterans?

[Mango Polo]

Psychic Focus: Yes.

Sniper: Yes.

[Ishagu]

It's very strange to see a 30k army far, far stronger than it's 40k counterpart.

[Charlo]

It's very strange to see a 30k army far, far stronger than it's 40k counterpart.

I suppose, but you can literally run an army of Magnus and all wizards on discs in 40k, which is pretty insane in itself.

[depthcharge12]

It's very strange to see a 30k army far, far stronger than it's 40k counterpart.

Well that's because in 40k they don't have the same numbers as the legion, there's only about....

 

B)

 

...a thousand of them.

 

 

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!

[Halandaar]

It's very strange to see a 30k army far, far stronger than it's 40k counterpart.

 

Well to be honest the 40k rules aren't exactly top drawer (discounting Magnus, obviously)

[dansupvi]

what do people think of a list like this? i like the idea of deep striking terminators, wud like to make a list thats strong and wont auto lsoe, but preferably not one people wont like playing against either

 

only things im super set on are the sekhmet + praetor and the robots. i love robots. also thought that a corvidae siege breaker + lascannons would be a reroll to hit and reroll to pen squad, what do people think of that? avoiding tanks wherever possible 

 

HQ

Praetor, level 3, force axe, terminator armour, litanies, digital lasers

Total: 240

Siege Breaker, level 1 psyker, force weapon artificer armour refractor field 

Total: 150

Damocles Command Rhino

Total: 100

 

Elites

Khenetai Occult Blade Cabal x10, melta bombs artificer armour

Total: 325

 

Fast Attack

Dreadclaw (115)

Total: 115

 

Troops

Sehkmet Terminator Cult x7, 2x chainfist, 2x power fist

Total: 355

Sehkmet Terminator Cult x7, 2x chainfist, 2x power fist

Total: 355

 

Heavy Support

Castellax-Achea (135) x3

Total: 405

10x Heavy Support marines with Lascannons, augury scanner, artificer armour

Total: 440

Total: 2485

[hhhdan]

It's very strange to see a 30k army far, far stronger than it's 40k counterpart.

 

I'd say that it is definitely possible to create a stronger 40k army with formations and allied daemons, plus magnus flying around and summoning a burning chariot each turn + the D beams and also having a 2++ re-rollable save from grimoire of true names and other stuff like that,

 

But 30k list is definitely much more varied, interesting and on average stronger (thousand sons veterans squad vs thousand sons rubric marines squad. and Sekhmet squad vs scarab occult rubric terminators squad.) if not using crazy formations.