[HH1.0] Thousand Sons tactica

[Jarkaira]

I am not saying you guys would outright lie but during an audience with fans in a busy environment the author could misunderstood the question or say something he didn't meant to. I know I have said something I didn't actually intend to my customers in exhibitions due the sheer amount of stress it will bring anyone organizing it.

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

 

Depends on who you ask it. Some say that it is a power fist because of hearsay from author.

If the question had been for some underpowered or non-TS unit people would lap up the answer with glee.

 

I also asked Alan and he was very specific, it's a power fist. People can houserule it otherwise if they think it's too much, but that's what Alan designed for the unit.

 

 

Cheers for that Mango. You have spoken to Alan and that's enough for me. In all fairness to Jarkaira, there does seem to be a difference of opinion though as I tried reading some online 'Legion Rule Reviews' before asking here and they were very much split between Fist and CCW.

Sorry if it has been asked before, I did look but had no luck (had I known about the search within a topic function it certainly would have helped though), but I do appreciate your positivity in replying nonetheless :)

[Mango Polo]

No worries! And I was mostly ranting about... other people. I've had a few conversations elsewhere go:

"What are the rules clarifications people asked at the event? Okay so A = X, B = Y..."

"Power fists."

"Yeah but nuh-huh."

 

Sigh.

[Withershadow]

We need to compile and sticky the questions from confirmed Weekender people next time or something. I'm willing to take a picture with the staff if that's what it takes.

Seriously, why hasn't his happened already?!?

 

@slipstreams make it happen! :P

[Jarkaira]

^ Best way would be to push them do a FAQ next time :) That would help out all the players.

[Runefyre]

^ Best way would be to push them do a FAQ next time That would help out all the players.

Or, you know, get this insanely expensive book correctly written from the start

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

^ Best way would be to push them do a FAQ next time That would help out all the players.

Or, you know, get this insanely expensive book correctly written from the start

I wholeheartedly agree it's the most expensive book they are selling in the series, took them ages to produce. They could have just written the rules section with a proof reader.

[Jarkaira]

^ Or that :)

[Withershadow]

Can someone with the book check the Age of Darkness victory conditions? Null deploy still auto lose?

[Supe robot gangster #1]

Can someone with the book check the Age of Darkness victory conditions? Null deploy still auto lose?

Correct

 

Edited for dodgey phone spelling

Edited February 24, 2017 by Supe robot gangster #1

[Nusquam]

Auto lose from no models at any point is a condition for the 30k specific missions, not the expansion as a whole, yes there is a differenceand it's important. I'd quote my previous part in this thread about it but im on my phone.

 

Something something search

[Withershadow]

Auto lose from no models at any point is a condition for the 30k specific missions, not the expansion as a whole, yes there is a differenceand it's important. I'd quote my previous part in this thread about it but im on my phone.

 

Something something search

How relevant is that distinction?  I would assume most people are playing the core Age of Darkness missions, thus the rule applies.

 

If you play the Shadow Wars missions from Book VI, you use the 40K rule of at end of Game Turn.

 

If you play any of the alternate game types from Book IV, whether it's Conquest Campaign, Strategic Raids, or City Fights, there is no "auto-lose" rule at all, so even if they clean the table, you can continue playing if there is something in reserve (and if you don't make your reserve rolls, you basically just skip your turn).

 

The Legendary Missions from Book V are also completely devoid of any "no models = you lose" stipulations.

 

 

But to be frank, I've never actually seen any of thoses missions played, locally or online. Maelstrom happens but usually only if playing vs. other 40K players to make the transition less painful for them. It's actually a shame, the Book IV campaign and missions are particularly awesome.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Withershadow

[BrotherLeonidas]

So what psychic powers would people lean towards choosing for Sekmet coming out of a Land Raider/Spartan?

 

I'm planning to run a few chainfists in Tartaros armor. My original thought was to go Raptora, and use the 4++ and plan for Maelstrom and Levitation (for when I need to zip around late game).

 

But lately Ive been considering Pyrae (I know I could cross arcana with discipline, but the 3+ warp charge has been very helpful in my test games) with Pyromancy for maybe Fiery Form (giving me at least the 4++) and a witch fire to combine with hammer of wrath while charging out of an assault vehicle.

 

Has anyone tested the unit?

[NemoVonUtopia]

Molten beam would be useful since you will probably be in close. I am a big fan of objuration Mechanicus to help soften up tanks.

[Withershadow]

My plan: Tartaros in Kharybdis, Pyrae for hammer of wrath and 3+ manifesting Fiery Form. Cataphractii on foot, Raptora for 3++ and 3+ manifesting Levitate.

 

Molten Beam or Sunburst are a solid second Pyrae power. The TK powers are not particularly exciting, so I may just roll on Biomancy for their second power.

[BrotherLeonidas]

Is Molten Beam enough for engaging vehicles? Or is it taken more as a back up plan? Can nova powers hit flyers?

[Learn2Eel]

Novas can indeed hit both Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures, hence why Magnus is...well, you know. 
Molten Beam is nice against vehicles but it's not amazing, it's more the nice mix of quantity and quality of hits you get from a Strength 8 AP1 beam with an 18" range that makes it a great power. 

[Nusquam]

 

Auto lose from no models at any point is a condition for the 30k specific missions, not the expansion as a whole, yes there is a differenceand it's important. I'd quote my previous part in this thread about it but im on my phone.

 

Something something search

How relevant is that distinction?  I would assume most people are playing the core Age of Darkness missions, thus the rule applies.

 

If you play the Shadow Wars missions from Book VI, you use the 40K rule of at end of Game Turn.

 

If you play any of the alternate game types from Book IV, whether it's Conquest Campaign, Strategic Raids, or City Fights, there is no "auto-lose" rule at all, so even if they clean the table, you can continue playing if there is something in reserve (and if you don't make your reserve rolls, you basically just skip your turn).

 

The Legendary Missions from Book V are also completely devoid of any "no models = you lose" stipulations.

 

 

But to be frank, I've never actually seen any of thoses missions played, locally or online. Maelstrom happens but usually only if playing vs. other 40K players to make the transition less painful for them. It's actually a shame, the Book IV campaign and missions are particularly awesome.

 

 

You answered your first question, ha. If you do core BRB missions for example, then only the normal "Sudden Death" applies. Just like you have to prepare for Attrition and Last Man Standing; you have to prepare for the instant version of Sudden Death.

 

As for the others, do they specifically say something to the effect "you don't lose if you have no models on the table so long as you have some in reserves"? Or is it just simply lacking the 30k specific missions "instant sudden death"? If it's the latter then the BRB Sudden Death Still applies.

[Withershadow]

I think I'm reversing my position on the Sekhmet having access to all the disciplines. If that was the case, the Blade Cabal wouldn't need an asterisk saying they can generate powers from any discipline, so I think it's best to treat those asterisk rules in italics as restrictive.

 

It should be a decent compromise point too. Choosing powers is already very strong, the unit is already undercosted for additional guys and for combi-weapons; getting to select one power like Levitate or Fiery Form and then also roll on Biomancy is just too much. I got iron arm in a proxy game on my 9-strong Raptora Cataphract unit. They killed everything and ignored anything thrown at them.

[sturguard]

Withershadow- the way I read it was those were the only two psychic decks they can generate powers from period. So you don't even get to "chose" which powers you get, but rather generate from Telekinesis and Pyromancy. Some may say that both those decks are weak but on the other hand, you are essentially getting your warp charges and brotherhood for free when you look at the cost of the terminators (along with the special abilities of hit and run, or +1 for the invul and lets not forget the ability to deep strike). With all the typos and language issues in the book, I would guess it was the intent that you still roll, otherwise lets face it, folks are going to take the same few powers over and over.

[Spiral]

Withershadow- the way I read it was those were the only two psychic decks they can generate powers from period. So you don't even get to "chose" which powers you get, but rather generate from Telekinesis and Pyromancy. Some may say that both those decks are weak but on the other hand, you are essentially getting your warp charges and brotherhood for free when you look at the cost of the terminators (along with the special abilities of hit and run, or +1 for the invul and lets not forget the ability to deep strike). With all the typos and language issues in the book, I would guess it was the intent that you still roll, otherwise lets face it, folks are going to take the same few powers over and over.

But then why does it say that they "Choose" their powers, when EVERY other instance in the book of Psychic powers says "Generate"? 

[sturguard]

Why is it that many other references are different? I mean GW gets this stuff wrong all the time. I would think because there is more than one fellow involved in creating the rules, and they dont all use the same terminology and certainly the book seems to be lacking much if any proof reading at all.

 

It could simply be a syntax thing. For example I can say, you can choose between Pyromancy and Telekensis for your powers. I am not saying you choose the power specifically, I am saying you can only choose those two powers out of the rest.

 

If it becomes a random power from pyromancy and telekensis the terminators actually become just good for their points instead of extremely too good for their points.

 

Put it this way, in the Imperial Fists thread Alan answered a question about whether their termies in Tartaros armor could take storm shields. The answer was no, they want Tartaros termies to be mobile but yet less resilient and he felt otherwise this would break the game. Given this answer, do we really think that Alan wants 1K Sons termies to all have levitation on them (rather than rolling and only getting it 1/3rd of the time) and essentially be more mobile than Tartaros termies and have the increased invul save to essentially storm shield levels? If you compare the scenarios, I would vote no.

Edited March 1, 2017 by sturguard

[Baluc]

@sturguard while it might be "fairer" I doubt you would get more than one or two people who play the army to agree to that. Which is why we have a 3rd party write the rules of the game.

 

I don't think FW has a clear vision of how they actually want the game to play and how points affect that vision. If they did we wouldn't have 115 point Whirlwind Scorpius tanks, and 15 point veterans in a world of 125 point tactical squads.

 

The only real problem with 1ksons is GotCK, the rest just makes them a top tier strong legion. Which is fortunate if you like 1Ksons and irritating if you like good gaming. 

[BrotherLeonidas]

Magnus is a problem too. Here's hoping the psychic phase/powers get toned down or evened out with the supposed edition change.

[Baluc]

Magnus is a problem too. Here's hoping the psychic phase/powers get toned down or evened out with the supposed edition change.

 

As a LoW he's on the high end of the power curve mostly because he has such a profound affect on the game outside of close combat where most Primarchs do their work. As an HQ choice thanks to GotCK he is a much larger issue. But, again that means GotCK is the real problem. He is mechanically basically a more durable, and killy Fellblade... that makes 2W, level 2 psyker, terminators troops. In exchange for an additional to hit mechanic. 

 

A much more fair and balanced mechanic would have been for LA:1kS to give master lvl 0, 1 pre-determine power based off of a cult chart, then left veterans, terminators, legion units and Hqs the ability to buy levels. Increasing the number of powers in the list but putting some more controls on the number and locations of warp charges and powers available. But this is what we got, so this is what it is. 

 

I've been working on a mirror list to go with my wolves. That I can use as an allied loyalist force and a traitor force if needs must.

 

I'm liking the jetbike Praetor w/ biomancy a lot. Anyone have any experience?