[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Nova_chron]

Ehh just have to find a good balance

 

I'm thinking that I will use my grey slayers without a character initially but that is mostly due to my transport limitations I only have 2 land Raiders and one rhino

Edited February 10, 2017 by Nova_chron

[Runefyre]

I've been brainstorming non-stop trying to stumble upon a good combo. So what do guys think of this list? I'm going off the assumption that Red-blade counts as my mandatory praetor (it makes perfect sense, and if someone tells me that Red-blade isn't a jarl, well then....)

 

2000 points

 

HQ

 

Red-blade

 

Speaker of the Dead

 

Legion command squad (tartaros terminator armour, 3x chainfists, plasma blaster, phobos DT)

 

Troops

 

(2x) Grey Slayer squad (20 dudes, 2x combi-weapons, aa, powerfist)

 

elites

 

Deathsworn (phobos DT)

 

Lords of War

 

Cerberus heavy tank-destroyer

Edited February 10, 2017 by Runefyre

[A/O]

Has anyone actually played any games with the rules or is all the gnashing of teeth based on theory?

[Leman Russ SW]

I would drop the Cerberus from your list, it is only really any good in and Iron Hands army.  You would be better with a Typhon, a couple of Venators or a Vindi Laser destroyer unit.   I think that attaching a character to Grey Slayers won't be a problems just give them a pistol, I will mostly be using the warrior mettle rule to rapid-fire then charge and having a character doesn't stop this as long at they only fire their pistol.

[Purge the Daemon]

I would drop the Cerberus from your list, it is only really any good in and Iron Hands army. You would be better with a Typhon, a couple of Venators or a Vindi Laser destroyer unit. I think that attaching a character to Grey Slayers won't be a problems just give them a pistol, I will mostly be using the warrior mettle rule to rapid-fire then charge and having a character doesn't stop this as long at they only fire their pistol.

It does prevent running and charging though which is big especially when attempting howl of the death wolf first turn charges and sometimes even second turn. Especially when making use of double death Woot howls you want to try use.

[Leman Russ SW]

How are you charging 1st turn?

[Nova_chron]

6 inch move d6+1 inch run 2d6-1 inch charge makes 24 inch charges a possibility for grey slayers admittedly very long odds but hey sometimes you get lucky

[Purge the Daemon]

6 inch move d6+1 inch run 2d6-1 inch charge makes 24 inch charges a possibility for grey slayers admittedly very long odds but hey sometimes you get lucky

But if you go second and you use howl of the death wolf giving reroll to run and charge it's a very real possibility.

[Lord Howling]

I have been tinkering with some lists as well, and I have to say it's really hard. (Sorry I think i will sound slightly ranty...but I guess I can't help it)

 

My main problem seems to be that basically all our units are tooled for attack, yet they all come in unit sizes that prevent them from entering a transport together with all the HQ Units we have to take.

 

Sure I'd love to take a Varagyr Unit for the style...but I can't even put them in a Land Raider Phobos with my Wolflord or Priest cause they are a min squad size of 5. So if I want to put a Character together with this bodyguard unit, it's Spartan or something like Stormeagle?

 

Use small squads of Grey Slayers in Rhinos to save points and keep them mobile? Sure, but they'll be on their own, can't put a character with them in the Rhino either, and neither in a Landraider Phobos!

 

The only unit that can actually go in a transport together with a HQ are the Deathsworn, but guess what, they can only go with a Speaker of the Dead, so another restriction there.

 

 

Now I REALLY want to build a list with Leman Russ in it, I painted the model nicely, and he's just brutal, but he doesn't even count as one of our mandatory HQ units if I take him, so at 2,5k or 3k point games I have to run him, and 3 other HQ choices just to even have a viable list. And this now combined with the above problem of transportation!

 

Most of our character models are melee murder machines or melee support machines, so they want to get to the frontline quickly, but the only way for them to do so is putting them in a frigging Spartan or some other sort of 250+ point transport option....and I simply can't afford them in the list.

 

So what do I usually end up if I pair this with my love for the Deathsworn Unit that I'd also like to use?

A 2500 Points list like this:

 

Leman Russ    

                                                                                                               

Speaker of the Dead                                                                                                  

Artificer Armour  Exchange Power Maul for Great Frost Blade

Wolf Lord                                                                                                                        

Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Aether Rune Armour,, Digital Lasers

17 Grey Slayer                                                                                                               

2 Powerweapons, 1 Great Frost Blade, Artificer Armour, Melta bombs,  Legion  vexilla

Spartan                                                                                                                             

Flare Shields, Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Auxiliary Drive

 

Speaker of the Dead                                                                                                  

Artificer Armour  Exchange Power Maul for Great Frost Blade

9 Deathsworn                                                                                                                

1 Great Frost Blade, Rad Grenades, Meltabombs

Land Raider Phobos                                                                                                    

Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade

 

10 Grey Slayer                                                                                                               

1 Great Frost Blade, Artificer Armour, 9  Bolter

Rhino

 

10 Grey Slayer                                                                                                               

1 Great Frost Blade, Artificer Armour, 9 Bolter

 

What is it? A festering pile of ineffectiveness is what it is. I can BARELY fulfill the minimum requirements I have to take (the Lord already has to ride with Leman Russ, cause no more room anywhere else..) , and add 1 other cool unit to the mix, but then I'm done, and my list runs around with no artillery, no anti tank, no psychic powers, and somehow looking kind of bland even though it has Leman Russ and some Deathsworn. Sure if a miracle occurs and my Spartan and Land Raider actually reach the enemy lines they will rip appart anything they touch, but then they'll most likely get shot to pieces by the fastly superior firepower my opponent will have, and that'll be that.

 

Oh well....maybe if I replace my Wolf Lord with some ultra cheap Centurion as pure tax, I can somehow get a Scorpion or Contemptor in there and make it a tiny bit more viable?

 

Maybe the Space Wolves way is to completely ignore transports of any sort and just footslog the board with hundreds of marines? Have Leman Russ walk in the open field with his Wolfkin and a unit of Grey Slayers as protection? ;-P

 

 

Wait....I think I have found the perfect way to play Space Wolves, totally fluffy and definitely the way they intended us to play:

 

Leman Russ       

                                                                                                             

Wolfkin of Russ         

                                                                                                   

Speaker of the Dead      

                                                                                            

Artificer Armour  Exchange Power Maul for Great Frost Blade

 

5 Varagyr                                                                                                                         

5 additional Frost Claws, Exchange 3 Frost Weapon for Powerfist, Exchange 2 Frost Weapons for Chainfists

 

Spartan                                                                                                                             

Flare Shields, Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Auxiliary Drive

 

 

Speaker of the Dead                                                                                                  

Artificer Armour  Exchange Power Maul for Great Frost Blade

 

9 Deathsworn                                                                                                                

1 Great Frost Blade, Rad Grenades, Meltabombs

 

Spartan                                                                                                                             

Flare Shields, Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Auxiliary Drive

 

Wolf Lord                                                                                                                        

Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Aether Rune Armour,, Digital Lasers

 

5 Varagyr                                                                                                                         

5 additional Frost Claws, Exchange 3 Frost Weapon for Powerfist, Exchange 2 Frost Weapons for Chainfists

 

Spartan                                                                                                                             

Flare Shields, Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Auxiliary Drive

 

Cause who cares about enemy flyers, artillery, strategy or anything, when you can have 3 Spartans and all the Elite Wolves you want on the field? ;-P

Edited February 10, 2017 by Lord Howling

[Frater Cornelius]

What I am wondering is how to best incorporate the Red-Blade. I usually want to avoid Spartans as I picture the Wolves are a meduim-heavy army with more hitting power and speed as opposed to to being bulky. My emphasis would either be on Rhino GS or two 15-ish GS blobs (both scouting) with Cortus support, Deathsworn and the heaviest transport I want to include is either an Eagle or a Rhobos.

 

Here is the issue though. Hvarl can not enter a Rhino to ride with a smaller squad, he can not join Deathsworn and he shouldn't join Grey Slayers because they would lose Warrior's Mettle. What else is there? Especially at 2000pts, which is rather common here (2500 at most).

 

Command Squad maybe? Fairly cheap and fit into a Phobos with him.

[Charlo]

It's all about reliability - I think all legions would have really loved the spartan - it's made to literally just plow through anything and deliver your best troops into the enemy (the only thing better is the Mastodon!)

 

You can use a Phobos, but you'll miss that flare shield - plus if you are lacking in anti-tank, the spartan brings a nice set of quad lascannons to deal with that too.

[Frater Cornelius]

But I'll save around 150pts, still keep TLLC and save loads of cash. Besides, using a Spartan at 2000pts leaves less points elsewhere and I prefer the boys over toys approach at lower point levels to begin with.

[Nova_chron]

Your varagyr need one more body in the unit to take spartan transport

[Robzilla]

I've got to echo some of the views aired already - that its really difficult to naturally fit in our HQ's in to other units.

I've been tinkering around with lists for a while now, and whilst I've found solutions, they arent always the best, in terms of synergy...  I thought I'd air my ideas and see what people make of them:

 

1)  Footslogging.  Not horrendous, especially if scouting via Redblade, BUT does eliminate the bonus of warriors mettle from grey slayers, which is where I imagine the majority of HQ units would be.

 

2)  With Vets:  Whilst I don't think that vets are an auto-include by any stretch of the imagination, they can be quite killy, and can number squad sizes of less than 10 men.  They also have access to outflank, to allow the HQ to get up-field fast, or they can opt for the +1 weapon skill (Ws 6 on the charge!) and go elite unit hunting, especially if the IC has a Great frost blade.  
Popped in a dreadclaw (if allowed), rhino, Land raider, or footslog (if outflanking, but still hardly optimal)

 

3) With outriders.  Suitable for a seige breaker, forge lord, or Centurion/champion.  Could work!  The Scout move from the outriders allows for outflank, and helps the IC to get upfield fast if just used as the standard 12" move.  Plus outriders are Really underrated in terms of a fast-hitting CC unit.  (Not great for enemy elites, but will murder other expensive choices with the IC present too, like heavy weapon squads, Vet squads, artillery etc).  works well for combi-charging, if you use Pale hunter, and the furious charge is nice in bloodied claw.

 

4)  With Jetbikes, or the Heavy Support version.  Again, a fast moving firebase - probably best suited to a seige breaker, but allowing for a lot of mobility, pressure early in the game, and a resiliant (if expensive) platform for a HQ.  I've been toying with the idea of using the Heavy support Jetbikes, with a Seige breaker for tank hunter on the go.

 

5)  With Assault Marines.  Granted they aren't compulsory units... but running angels wrath, they get a nice benefit.  They are fast, cheaper than they were before, and keeps up the theme of a fast moving army, applying pressure across the board.  Also, a Vigilator paired with that unit, would be awesome for a VERY fast attacking force (12" scout move from assault marines).

 

6)  Caestus.  I always feel this is overlooked in favour of things like a spartan... Its a very tough platform, an assault vehicle, Strength 10 ramming... whats not to love?  Really only suitable for terminator units though, and this does compound the "death star" problem.  Plus a turn 3 charge minimum isnt ideal... but could work by forcing your opponent to commit to a position in the battle line with his elite units.  The Caestus would have an advantage then of being able to counter-charge with your elite unit, quite effectively.

 

7)  Command squads.  Hardly (in my opinion) ideal, as they are brittle, and expensive, and not too numerous, but could work in a pinch to get access to a dedicated transport.

 

 

I'm sure there are more, but truth be told I think the above are some of the better options (Rite of war dependant, of course).  I think the key will be to ensuring the most synergy in the force possible, in terms of applying pressure fast, and in a unified way.

[TheWolfLord]

 

6 inch move d6+1 inch run 2d6-1 inch charge makes 24 inch charges a possibility for grey slayers admittedly very long odds but hey sometimes you get lucky

But if you go second and you use howl of the death wolf giving reroll to run and charge it's a very real possibility.

If you take them in an assault vehicle they get an additional 6" disembark which makes it very likely

[TheWolfLord]

I just want to clarify for those that don't realise it.

 

If you join an IC to a unit of Grey Slayers you cannot run and charge but the unit can still Rapid Fire their Bolters and charge providing the IC doesn't fire Rapid Fire or Heavy Weapons.

 

The new FAQ, Warriors Mettle and the Rapid Fire makes it possible 100% RAW and RAI

Edited February 10, 2017 by TheWolfLord

[Robzilla]

I just want to clarify for those that don't realise it.

 

If you join an IC to a unit of Grey Slayers you cannot run and charge but the unit can still Rapid Fire their Bolters and charge providing the IC doesn't fire Rapid Fire or Heavy Weapons.

 

The new FAQ, Warriors Mettle and the Rapid Fire makes it possible 100% RAW and RAI

 

True (and a very good observation!)

However, I cant help but feel that the running bonus is going to be the better of the two options, 9/10.  

When rapid firing, the majority of the squad will just have bolters. and even if you did throw a few combi weapons in there, you don't want to be too far out of charge range after killing a few enemies that you fail the charge...

 

It works very nicely when paired with an assault transport, but that brings us back to the fact that IC's can only ride with Grey slayers in Eagles, or Spartans...

[Lord Howling]

Your varagyr need one more body in the unit to take spartan transport

 

Who cares about dedicated transports? ;-P 3 Heavy Support Slots, 3 Spartans! ;-)

 

What do you guys say, does "The Wolfkin of Russ" count for one of the HQ slots per 1k points we need? Their Entry seems to indicate as much.

[quinnwolf]

Do any of the new rules make any difference to Zone Mortalis setting?

 

Need to put together a 1500 point ZM list from the following assembled models:

 

Praetor - Tartaros, (modelled to cover iron halo, digital weapons, paragon blade & combi melta)

Rune Priest - cataphracti armour

2 Units of 20 Tacticals (now need to be run as grey slayers for now) equipped with bolters and extra ccw. Could model a few more to incorporate power weapons and fists, could also make more leaders to run 4 squads of 10. how many is worthwhile?)

5 Cataphract Termis / Varagyr 3* paired claws, 1 with hvy flamer and chainfist, 1 with combi melta and thunder hammer.

10 Assault marines

1 Contemptor , kheres and fist

EDIT: I also have an apothecary and a techmarine both of which could fill the 2nd HQ as a wolf priest/Iron priest as a cheaper option.

 

Could potentially build one more unit before next game, support squad with flamers perhaps? another contemptor?

 

Any advice would, as always, be appreciated. It's going to only be my second game of 30K, but the start of a campaign by the end of which i hope to be a little more proficient. IN the mean time you guys can be my secret weapon.

Edited February 10, 2017 by quinnwolf

[Baluc]

Unfortunetly Space wolves ended up were I feared the most. Mediocre. They have a lot of structural issues, that either require allies to fix (which they have outright disallowed in terms of legions, and have really poor allegiance levels with everyone else), or playing the army in only one fashion.

 

Spamming Grey Slayer units might be fun for 3 or 4 months. What do we do when our friends start taking Double Kheres, or Leviathans, or better yet realize counter attack is a weak counter when compared to generating favourable match ups by choosing to charge the enemy from transports.

 

Red-Blade is mandatory, we get tragically limited use out of our LA:SW rules since it seems to only affect Space wolves Power Armour infantry models. I don't know why Tartarus getting +1 run would have been game breaking or unfluffy. The Frost Weapons are pretty poorly worked, why does the sword and Axe need to have additional downsides I'm paying to take them... It just means I would never take either, except on a paragon blade character, which I never take because I need Red-Blade to make my army function.

 

Rune Priests are hot garbage, not that I can afford to take one anyway

 

Don't get me wrong there are a lot of cool, fluffy and "strong" things that have come with it. The night fight portion is interesting and a good meta rule, but I feel like it could have been extended to allow wolves to roll night fight in any mission would have gone a long way to making foot slogging more appealing. Its nice that Red-Blade and Greigor have an extra wound for their character level. Russ is very strong in combat.

 

I guess it just comes down to that Space Wolves would be a really strong Age of Sigmar army, but kind of fall flat in the 40k ruleset. A shooting game. Ironically custodies have a ton of items and rules that make them resistant to the sorts of things that would make the army really weak in 40k. So its not like FW can't do it, they just chose not to.

[Runefyre]

Unfortunetly Space wolves ended up were I feared the most. Mediocre. They have a lot of structural issues, that either require allies to fix (which they have outright disallowed in terms of legions, and have really poor allegiance levels with everyone else), or playing the army in only one fashion.

 

Spamming Grey Slayer units might be fun for 3 or 4 months. What do we do when our friends start taking Double Kheres, or Leviathans, or better yet realize counter attack is a weak counter when compared to generating favourable match ups by choosing to charge the enemy from transports.

 

Red-Blade is mandatory, we get tragically limited use out of our LA:SW rules since it seems to only affect Space wolves Power Armour infantry models. I don't know why Tartarus getting +1 run would have been game breaking or unfluffy. The Frost Weapons are pretty poorly worked, why does the sword and Axe need to have additional downsides I'm paying to take them... It just means I would never take either, except on a paragon blade character, which I never take because I need Red-Blade to make my army function.

 

Rune Priests are hot garbage, not that I can afford to take one anyway

 

Don't get me wrong there are a lot of cool, fluffy and "strong" things that have come with it. The night fight portion is interesting and a good meta rule, but I feel like it could have been extended to allow wolves to roll night fight in any mission would have gone a long way to making foot slogging more appealing. Its nice that Red-Blade and Greigor have an extra wound for their character level. Russ is very strong in combat.

 

I guess it just comes down to that Space Wolves would be a really strong Age of Sigmar army, but kind of fall flat in the 40k ruleset. A shooting game. Ironically custodies have a ton of items and rules that make them resistant to the sorts of things that would make the army really weak in 40k. So its not like FW can't do it, they just chose not to.

Eh. I've gotten over my pessimism and decided I'm not gonna complain again until I've actually platested. We still have quite a bit of variety and useful tricks. no-one can do flyers better than us now (ironically enough).

 

But basically I'm gonna run my Wolves because they're awesome, and run Custodes if I absolutely need to win.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Runefyre

[LukeTheButcher]

Yep, disapointed too.

 

Synergy. We just don't have it. Not that I can see.

 

So, for the only army shaping rule (and why does Russ, leader of the biggest warrior 'brother-hood' not do anything for his men?), you need Red-Blade. But he doesn't work with our Elite Terminators owing to differing armour marks.

 

Our Elite Terminators can pack in more heavy weapons than most, but are tailored for Melee and fighting 'champions'.

 

We have special Frost weapons, that are in some ways inferior to basic power weapons (why take a Frost Axe over a Power Axe? I'm going 2nd hand on what the rules say here so have I missed something?)

 

We are forced to have more HQ's than anyone, but they don't synergies with the compulsory troops, as we lose rules.

 

We are geared towards getting into melee, but don't synegise with half the options of getting there (ie, our 'assult-centric' Grey Slayers can't get a LR - the Assault transport..? // One of our RoW doesn't let us take drop pods...?? )

 

It seems we have some inherent inhibitors into what I would have expected (and hoped) to be one of the more versitlie and flexible armies out there.  Russ was tactically diverse wasn't he? I thought he was the original 'as long as it works' kinda guy...

 

So ,as I see it, Space Wolves are designed to run across the board as one large uncordinated horde. And hope that is enought to get through Quad Mortar spam and template support weapons.

 

I am waiting for soemone to tell me i'm wrong and I would truely welcome it, along with some guidance on how the Wolves can gel properly and not be a World Eater lite army (but not as effective. At least the World Eaters synegise!)

 

 

Stil llooking for options...

[Purge the Daemon]

Yep, disapointed too.

 

Synergy. We just don't have it. Not that I can see.

 

So, for the only army shaping rule (and why does Russ, leader of the biggest warrior 'brother-hood' not do anything for his men?), you need Red-Blade. But he doesn't work with our Elite Terminators owing to differing armour marks.

 

Our Elite Terminators can pack in more heavy weapons than most, but are tailored for Melee and fighting 'champions'.

 

We have special Frost weapons, that are in some ways inferior to basic power weapons (why take a Frost Axe over a Power Axe? I'm going 2nd hand on what the rules say here so have I missed something?)

 

We are forced to have more HQ's than anyone, but they don't synergies with the compulsory troops, as we lose rules.

 

We are geared towards getting into melee, but don't synegise with half the options of getting there (ie, our 'assult-centric' Grey Slayers can't get a LR - the Assault transport..? // One of our RoW doesn't let us take drop pods...?? )

 

It seems we have some inherent inhibitors into what I would have expected (and hoped) to be one of the more versitlie and flexible armies out there. Russ was tactically diverse wasn't he? I thought he was the original 'as long as it works' kinda guy...

 

So ,as I see it, Space Wolves are designed to run across the board as one large uncordinated horde. And hope that is enought to get through Quad Mortar spam and template support weapons.

 

I am waiting for soemone to tell me i'm wrong and I would truely welcome it, along with some guidance on how the Wolves can gel properly and not be a World Eater lite army (but not as effective. At least the World Eaters synegise!)

 

 

Stil llooking for options...

You kinda of hit the nail on the head our legion rules and rights don't synergies with our special units at all. Yet our special units are compulsory. Red Blade is mandatory and we have to invest so many points in HQs we just lose out on firepower.

[Runefyre]

Our legion rules synergize very well with out special units. It's just that only one of our special units is truly "good". Deathsworn are actually quite nasty, I think I'll be pleasantly surprised when I field them. For the same price as a terminator squad you get just as many dudes who can do the same, probably more damage to whatever they hit.

 

Grey Slayers actually take advantage of the astartes stat-line, unlike regular tacticals. Face it, space marines were made for brutal close range fighting and grey slayers actually have rules that tailor to those qualities. I've always hated paying for an astartes statline only to have the unit hang back and shoot very mediocre guns.

 

Varagyr would very good if Frost weapons weren't such turds and their special rules so asinine. Imo crushing charge should be automatic HoW with one of their weapons and Lordsbane should grant preferred enemy (restricted to JUST the challenger) in challenges as well as allow them to be taken as a command squad. Plus add an additional wound.

[Ranwulf]

There will be many movement shananigans to make sure some of our HQ can follow the Grey Slayers. As long as they stay in coherence, and don't run while the rest of the unit does so, they can assault just the same...this means one thing: THERE WILL BE A CONGA LINE OF DEATH! 

 

Now, for our secondary and terciary HQs I might even think using some Vigilators just to get even more "in your face" with the enemy. With this you can maybe get 5 units Infiltrating with your forces (using our special HQ obviously). 

 

Ran