[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Dantay VI]

Insread of spreading characters around could uou not load them all up together and make a deathstar like unit with them? (Einherjar?)

 

Taking your opponents attention away from the squishier oarts and allow them to move a bit more freely.

[Frater Cornelius]

Grey Slayers are bad in the same sense as spoon is bad at cutting because it lacks sharp edges or a racing car is bad at scaling uneven terrain. They lack certain elements to be effective at it. But a spoon is great at holding low density material and a racing car is great for developing speed on an even road.

 

To put into more Wolf-y terms. I do not think that GS are great at slogging and blob wars, because they lack meaningful support from characters, but they should be great at Pod and Mechanized warfare.

[Hfran Morkai]

Definitely a solid choice. I don't see myself not wanting a couple of packs in any list anyway.

 

The one thing I wish and it's not even a Wolf specific issue is that you could infiltrate a couple of Recon squads in an Orbital Assault list, but it's manageable and our troops are cool. Sure it does make it a little more challenging as to where to put your characters in mech/drop lists but there are options for this (vets, seekers etc).

 

I like the list in general, will be easier for us to come up with stuff when we have the actual books/BS updated (I'm struggling with all the cross referencing on a PC).

[TheWolfLord]

I don't really understand this argument that our troops are bad because they cannot be supported by IC as well as other Legions can support theirs.

 

Throughout this thread complaints regarding the HQ tax has been raised again and again with people who say they usually only take a single HQ choice or 2 max.

 

The simple fact is unless you are playing very small games no Legion will have enough HQs to support all of their units. If you play 2k+ games the majority of the infantry will be left unsupported so Grey Slayers are no worse off than other Legions infantry.

 

In my opinion they are much better off, they can be armed in such a way that they can reliably deal with any other unit they encounter. The same cannot be said for the vast majority of other Legions units.

 

Dantay has the right idea, your opponent will throw everything they have at a Deathstar like unit to slow it down which leaves the rest of your forces less exposed by default.

[Runefyre]

I don't really understand this argument that our troops are bad because they cannot be supported by IC as well as other Legions can support theirs.

 

Throughout this thread complaints regarding the HQ tax has been raised again and again with people who say they usually only take a single HQ choice or 2 max.

 

The simple fact is unless you are playing very small games no Legion will have enough HQs to support all of their units. If you play 2k+ games the majority of the infantry will be left unsupported so Grey Slayers are no worse off than other Legions infantry.

 

In my opinion they are much better off, they can be armed in such a way that they can reliably deal with any other unit they encounter. The same cannot be said for the vast majority of other Legions units.

 

Dantay has the right idea, your opponent will throw everything they have at a Deathstar like unit to slow it down which leaves the rest of your forces less exposed by default.

aye, I've struggled to find places for my HQ's in my Ultramarine's army. When I play logos lectora I essentially have the same restriction as the wolves (2 HQ @ 2000 points).

 

Here's an interesting list I came up with yesterday:

Again, it's assuming Red-blade fulfills our praetor requirement.

 

HQ

 

Red-blade (Pale Hunters Rite of War)

 

Speaker of the Dead

 

Command squad (tataros terminator armour, chainfists, phobos DT)

 

troops

 

(2x)Grey Slayer squad (2x combi-weapons, 2x power weapons, huscarl: aa, great frost sword)

 

Elites

 

(2x) deathsworn (stock)

 

fast attack

 

(2x) storm eagles (stock)

 

Heavy Support

 

Basilisk

 

 

 

Since Pale Hunters let's us utilize reserves, I've really wanted to use fliers. They're super tactical in real life and I love the aesthetic. The SotD goes with Red-Blade in the phobos, conferring hit and run. So pretty much everything can hit and run out an unfavourable combat, or to rinse and repeat with +1WS. I wish I had the points to give the storm eagles las-cannons, that would make them incredible support vehicles able to target infantry and vehicles.

[Frater Cornelius]

I tried running Hvarl with Tartaros Command and a Wolf Priest in a Phobos. They underperformed against Scars and got doubled out by S8+. Maybe they fare better against slower armies though.

[Runefyre]

I tried running Hvarl with Tartaros Command and a Wolf Priest in a Phobos. They underperformed against Scars and got doubled out by S8+. Maybe they fare better against slower armies though.

I rarely play against bikes in 40k, let alone our subset of 30k players. So at least I don't have to worry about that. What do you think are the best counters for bikes?

 

What i do face is leman russ gunlines, and for those chainfists are invaluable. It's also why I love being able to bring a basilisk for out of LoS-shooting that can stun a Russ.

[Frater Cornelius]

 

 

I tried running Hvarl with Tartaros Command and a Wolf Priest in a Phobos. They underperformed against Scars and got doubled out by S8+. Maybe they fare better against slower armies though.

I rarely play against bikes in 40k, let alone our subset of 30k players. So at least I don't have to worry about that. What do you think are the best counters for bikes?

 

What i do face is leman russ gunlines, and for those chainfists are invaluable. It's also why I love being able to bring a basilisk for out of LoS-shooting that can stun a Russ.

Wouldn't a Venator do a better job at killing them? Either way, if they make it there, Hvarl and the CF are indeed solid.

 

As for bikes, primarily dakka. Something that kills them right away by ignoring cover and armour, piles loads of armour saves or at least forces them to Jink, making them far less of a threat. Usually, I would suggest Sicarans, Scorpius (with potentially ignores cover), Volkite for piling wounds on Outriders, or Plasma (or equivalent) to make Jetbikes jink. However, SW have limited options in their HS slots with their own rites. With generic ones or without any this is all fair game.

 

Or just ally in mechanicum. They don't a damn about cover saves :D

[GraemePaul]

A Volkite Caliver squad is quite efficient on pints and with an additional CCW more flexible too when combined with our legion rules.

 

I also think Volkite chargers may shine in our legion due to counter attack making the unit less vulnerable to charges.

[depthcharge12]

Where is your second HQ?

 

I am going for 3k points Armoured Spearhead list. I think this could work.

Command squad is the second choice.

 

RAW it is totally qualified as the book says an HQ UNIT not an HQ SLOT.

[Baluc]

There is a difference between bad, and structural issues. Headhunters are bad, predator squadrons had structural issues in the old red book.

 

Wolves are less Headhunters more old predator squadrons.

 

Runefyre what's the transport situation in that list who is on foot? The problem with more than one flyer is that the stuff on the ground is the only viable target for 2 turns. Storm Eagles should be 30% cheaper, if you aren't doing pale hunter you should consider dreadclaws instead especially since you don't have lascannons.

 

I'm moving on from Red-blade based lists too difficult to get him a transport.

 

The Cmd Sqd issue is an interesting one that I hadn't considered. But without an faq on Red-blade or Greigor it would just mean taking a cmd sqd instead of a consul. Nor am I sure it best represents the general idea of the rule.

[Coptimas]

Has anyone looked into Heavy Chainswords on Grey Slayers? Linked with Bloodied Claw furious charge and an attached Forge Lord with rad grenades leads to effective S8 attacks on the charge against toughness. FNP and multi-wound MEQ or even TEQ units look out as on a twenty strong unit thats 40 attacks at WS5 coming from a troops choice.

 

I think that Grey Slayers ability to threaten so many different types of enemy units really is a very strong point. First turn charges if done right mech or otherwise, hidden fist, Huscarl great for the challenge, power weapons, combis, invulnerable saves even.

 

Added to the fact that we have some stonking deployment options, night fight nearly 50% of the time in our favor, an we dont need to fall into the whole "we must assault" trap. We are restricted with our RoW's to losing just one unit type, Artillery. An even the weapons choices on one of those are perfectly available on  Vindicators or Achilles other than tarantulas.

 

Three out of every six games are objective based, two out of the other three rely on deployment zones for points. Any "takes all comers" list will struggle against the spam armies certain folk keep stating will ruin our day, any. The bike list mentioned earlier in the thread, fast, hard hitting, good melee, based around the strengths of its legion rules, with anti armor available, thats surely not an easy first game to play out your new army rules against.

 

Really what the Wolves have to consider is whats the most points effect and cost efficient way of dealing with armor, anit air, and particularly fast armies? An those units are available to any legion. I don't see us as a poor mans WE, we have far more tactical flexibility, better units, and can really cause pain when applied properly.

 

We are still a Legion, we still need Sicarans, Lightnings, Contemptors, Medusas etc etc. We can still really put the heat up with Seekers, Recon and Specialist units that don't fear the charge as much. 

 

As a finishing note we need to think outside the box alittle compared to some other legions, but generally as a takes all comers list, I think we are near to the absolute top in what we can achieve.

[TheWolfLord]

 

Where is your second HQ?

I am going for 3k points Armoured Spearhead list. I think this could work.

Command squad is the second choice.

RAW it is totally qualified as the book says an HQ UNIT not an HQ SLOT.

I take it you are counting the Praetor and his Command Squad squad as 2 rather than taking a Command Squad on its own?

[Runefyre]

@baluc I totally forgot to put the rhinos in there for the grey sleyrs, but they're paid for. So everything is mounted. I'm already revamping the list to only include 1 storm eagle, they're a huge point sink.

[Baluc]

@baluc I totally forgot to put the rhinos in there for the grey sleyrs, but they're paid for. So everything is mounted. I'm already revamping the list to only include 1 storm eagle, they're a huge point sink.

And, a horror show to build.

 

As I sour on Red-Blade my view point on Pale Hunter sours as well. Without multiple scouting units the +1 is pretty uninspiring, maybe if the RoW grey slayers Operate behind enemy lines or even just outflank. I suppose if I want to include 30-40 Space marines I could use outflanking vets but that seems pretty meh. Cool but lacking on over effectiveness.

 

The RoW search continues.

 

Whoever brought up scoring was right. We need our grey slayers to hold objectives getting them in dicy combats is a good way to lose a game. The problem is that ignoring dominion (which is actually a great mission for wolves) where they may actually do nothing all game but defend a position. They will usually have to take those objectives first and then defend them. I could be wrong but I'm not convinced without character support that they have what it takes to do that.

 

At this point I'm looking at Bloodied claw, and getting dedicated assault units that shoot.

[Runefyre]

I'm determined to make Pale Hunters work, I just love the whole aesthetic it brings to my mind.

[depthcharge12]

As mentioned above, Armored breakthrough might be cheesy. Get 2-3 Grey Slayers outfitted for cc, 2-3 land raiders, and whatever else you want.

 

Move 6", disembark 6", run d6+1", assault 2d6-1" or if you have howl of the death wolf, rerolls. Bam. First turn charge...12" movement + 4.5" run + 6" assault = 22.5" average threat range. Considering you're deploying 18-24" away from your opponent, or they move closer, it's well within your ability to assault first turn.

[Baluc]

I'm determined to make Pale Hunters work, I just love the whole aesthetic it brings to my mind.

I have a list. It just doesn't really work for well objective games or at all against armies better in assault than I am... like the domitar army that won LVO. Which I admit is as extreme example but really any cybernetica army would give it grief.

 

Anyone else incredibly underwhelmed by deathsworn? I keep trying to build a unit but then I end up thinking well at best I'm just going to trade with powerfist terminators, and at worst fight targets grey slayers could handle anyway.

[Runefyre]

Here's a revamp of my previous list. I think it has a little more shooting and more focus.

 

Red-Blade

 

Command squad (chainfists, phobos DT)

 

Praevian (2x castellax, darkfire cannons)

 

(2x) Grey Slayer squads (power fist, aa, power fist, rhino)

 

Deathsworn squad (10 dudes, rad grenades, go in the storm eagle)

 

Storm eagle (las-cannons)

 

Basilisk

[Robzilla]

As mentioned above, Armored breakthrough might be cheesy. Get 2-3 Grey Slayers outfitted for cc, 2-3 land raiders, and whatever else you want.

 

Move 6", disembark 6", run d6+1", assault 2d6-1" or if you have howl of the death wolf, rerolls. Bam. First turn charge...12" movement + 4.5" run + 6" assault = 22.5" average threat range. Considering you're deploying 18-24" away from your opponent, or they move closer, it's well within your ability to assault first turn.

Even better with Redblade as Hq. Suddenly the land raiders start 12 inches closer after their scout move.

Assuming the command squad is a legit choice for HQ, that's a bit of a saving grace for the wolves.

[Runefyre]

Here's a pretty mean breakthrough list.

 

Red-blade

 

Command squad (chainfists, Phobos dt)

 

(2x) Gs squad (power fist, aa, power fist)

 

(3x) preds with heavy bolters

 

(2x) land raider Phobos

 

Typhon

[depthcharge12]

 

As mentioned above, Armored breakthrough might be cheesy. Get 2-3 Grey Slayers outfitted for cc, 2-3 land raiders, and whatever else you want.

 

Move 6", disembark 6", run d6+1", assault 2d6-1" or if you have howl of the death wolf, rerolls. Bam. First turn charge...12" movement + 4.5" run + 6" assault = 22.5" average threat range. Considering you're deploying 18-24" away from your opponent, or they move closer, it's well within your ability to assault first turn.

Even better with Redblade as Hq. Suddenly the land raiders start 12 inches closer after their scout move.

Assuming the command squad is a legit choice for HQ, that's a bit of a saving grace for the wolves.

Only issue is no assault after scout, but you can spend that turn just sitting there and firing ALL THE LAZORS.

 

Hell you can still run a bloodied claws list and just take the land raiders in a squadron...isn't that an easy thing to forget? Lol

 

Now Depthcharge you say, doesn't that mean I'll waste all my land raiders firing at the same target? To that I say nah man, you still have power of the machine spirit. Though knowing some lists, you're likely to be firing at the same targets anyway.

 

Nice thing about armored breakthrough is that that only infantry have to be mounted, so you can still take dreads, bikes, and artillery.

 

Or you could have fun and take a Mastodon with 50 of your best friends...

[Runefyre]

The meat thing about the two lists I've proposed is they both only require one bop worth of infantry. It's all tank purchases after that

[Dantay VI]

Looks like i need to get some more Preds and some Land Raiders.

Gonna run the Mastodon flanked by 2 Spartans and the Raiders

 

Back it up with Sicarans & predators

 

My other list requires some work. Got to get some use from 2 fire raptors a storm eagle and a caestus.

Edited February 11, 2017 by dantay_xv

[Robzilla]

Just a thought, but whilst one of pale hunters big downsides is only one heavy support...

We can still take a Lord of war right?

Assuming you don't want Russ, Typhon is fair game right? Or other tank busting superheavies.

 

Speaking of... Malcador squadron in heavy support isn't too unappealing either.