[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Baluc]

How is three Malcdors wolfy ?

 

I am liking the combat shields for Slayers and everyone runs their command squads with them. Better to keep them alive to make combat.

what does that even mean?

[defl0]

You guys are insane... Space Wolves are very strong.

 

Most legions struggle to have there troops be useful beyond objective squatters. Grey slayers can be run several ways effectively.

 

And you are all nuts if you think pale hunter is weak. Hit and run is by far the best rule in the game. It's game breaking good. Yes you have to actually be a competant general to make it work... But as a ROW, pale hunter is awesome.

 

All that said, armoured spearhead is kinda of in a sweet spot for wolves. Scouting slayers in land raiders is just plain nasty

[Purge the Daemon]

You guys are insane... Space Wolves are very strong.

 

Most legions struggle to have there troops be useful beyond objective squatters. Grey slayers can be run several ways effectively.

 

And you are all nuts if you think pale hunter is weak. Hit and run is by far the best rule in the game. It's game breaking good. Yes you have to actually be a competant general to make it work... But as a ROW, pale hunter is awesome.

 

All that said, armoured spearhead is kinda of in a sweet spot for wolves. Scouting slayers in land raiders is just plain nasty

Okay first things first.

 

Grey Slayers cost the same as marines and we trade out boltguns for ccw so we are essentially despoilers and that's great if you wanted that. But as your only Troops they are incredibly restrictive.

 

Pale Hunters gives hit and run to only your power armoured Troops it's also not even hit and run. It's 2d6 unlike the white scars 3d6 one, and since wolves actually don't have go specialist units that benefit from it it's not exactly super useful. Hit and run is really strong on deathstars in fact it's broken as hell there but our deathstars have no access to it. And being barred from the best units available to legions doesn't seem like a strong rite of war.

 

Like space wolves look tons of good until you realise that everything is loaded with restrictions that make trying to.combine rules or use synergy next to worthless. There is no generalship that makes the difference here.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[Nova_chron]

I guess some people are so used to having vets as troops but I never used pride much pre inferno so in some ways ignorance is bliss but I feel like slayers are good for the simple fact they are very adaptable core troops I don't expect amazing things from them but if you build with a purpose in mind they are a solid choice. Maybe because I never grew to like pride spam it's not as much of a gut shot for me

[Guest Drekkan]

We all play in different metas, therefore different load out are needed.

 

There no need to be ridiculously absolute, specially in a game where we are supposed to play narratively compare to 40k.

 

I'll rather lose games than friends.

 

Still, I enjoy reading about superheavies, even if I'll play one in apocalypse only.

[Charlo]

How is Hit and Run bad when you get bonuses for charging....?

 

You could shoot some bolters, charge with bonuses, last a round, detach in your opponents turn and repeat :D

[Runefyre]

The Command Squad counting is still something being debated????

 

Their Retinue rule pretty much spells out that they do not take up an HQ slot, that they are paired with the character they are purchased with. 

 

Retinue

A Legion Command Squad may only be chosen as a retinue

for a Legion Praetor or Legion special character with the

Warlord special rule, and may not be taken as part of an army

on their own. They take up a single Force Organisation chart

choice with that Praetor, but do not have to be deployed with

them and are treated as a separate unit during the game.

The wording of the HQ restriction says "HQ unit", not selection or choice or slot. A command squad is definitely an HQ unit, so it qualifies RaW.

[Charlo]

 

The Command Squad counting is still something being debated????

 

Their Retinue rule pretty much spells out that they do not take up an HQ slot, that they are paired with the character they are purchased with. 

 

Retinue

A Legion Command Squad may only be chosen as a retinue

for a Legion Praetor or Legion special character with the

Warlord special rule, and may not be taken as part of an army

on their own. They take up a single Force Organisation chart

choice with that Praetor, but do not have to be deployed with

them and are treated as a separate unit during the game.

The wording of the HQ restriction says "HQ unit", not selection or choice or slot. A command squad is definitely an HQ unit, so it qualifies RaW.

 

Good catch!

[Jackalwolf]

If the following is not a deathstar with Hit and Run I don't know what is:

 

• Leman Russ
• Wolf Kin 
• Rune Caster with biomancy
• Speaker of the Dead
• Command squad of 3/any other small unit just to confer the Hit and Run to all the rest

 

I agree that our rules are pretty good. I think most of the problem people find is they're so new we still haven't had time to optimize or find out what works, but when that happens, the Pale Hunter is a hell of a rite.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Grieux

[Runefyre]

So long as you ignore our COMPLETELY useless frost weapons.

 

And over-costed Varagyr.

[Baluc]

Kurze

15 Assault Marines

Primus

Forge lord

Praetor

 

That is a deathstar with hit and run, where individual rules overlap to stengthen the whole.

[Baluc]

You guys are insane... Space Wolves are very strong.

 

Most legions struggle to have there troops be useful beyond objective squatters. Grey slayers can be run several ways effectively.

 

And you are all nuts if you think pale hunter is weak. Hit and run is by far the best rule in the game. It's game breaking good. Yes you have to actually be a competant general to make it work... But as a ROW, pale hunter is awesome.

 

All that said, armoured spearhead is kinda of in a sweet spot for wolves. Scouting slayers in land raiders is just plain nasty

 

This is patently incorrect, the new red book opened up many previously overcosted troops to choose from based on LA rules. Most people just don't have the imagination or collection to use them. Only one legion needs to uses tactical squads WE, IW can get good utility out of Tacs in Ironfire but everyone else is perfectly fine and often better choosing between Breachers and Assault squads, or without signicantly better RoW going with Pride or Chosen Duty, a Special Character or Primarch.

 

The list of special characters that unlock everything from Vets, Legion Terminators to Legion elite units as troops is long.

 

Alpha Legion for example have no reason to not do Skorr/Chosen duty or Dynat/Coils with Breachers since Pride is so prohibitive for them, and headhunter is unplayable.

 

RG for example should be taking Breachers there is no reason not to besides real world dollars, they do everything an infiltrating Tac squad would do, but bring their own anti-armour weapons, and have significantly higher defense in combat, and against blast damage like quad mortars.

 

So the argument that they are better than tacticals doesn't hold water since nobody needs to bring Tacs, its not a must and frequently its just people being stingy with points and dollars. The fact that we must bring this "uber" tac unit at all times is not just tactically limiting, its an a cap on how people are allowed to play and construct their​ army for no trade off.

 

I'm sure at Adepticon we will see many SW armies, some will invest in Grey Slayers others like myself will not. Its a very easy way to get some determination of credibility.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Baluc

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

 

The Command Squad counting is still something being debated????

 

Their Retinue rule pretty much spells out that they do not take up an HQ slot, that they are paired with the character they are purchased with.

 

Retinue

A Legion Command Squad may only be chosen as a retinue

for a Legion Praetor or Legion special character with the

Warlord special rule, and may not be taken as part of an army

on their own. They take up a single Force Organisation chart

choice with that Praetor, but do not have to be deployed with

them and are treated as a separate unit during the game.

The wording of the HQ restriction says "HQ unit", not selection or choice or slot. A command squad is definitely an HQ unit, so it qualifies RaW.

I personally think your abusing the wording (such as the Furious Assault granted by Bloodied Claws RoW despite such a rule not existing), but ain't my opponent so ain't my problem.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Wolf Lord Kieran

[Runefyre]

 

 

The Command Squad counting is still something being debated????

 

Their Retinue rule pretty much spells out that they do not take up an HQ slot, that they are paired with the character they are purchased with.

 

Retinue

A Legion Command Squad may only be chosen as a retinue

for a Legion Praetor or Legion special character with the

Warlord special rule, and may not be taken as part of an army

on their own. They take up a single Force Organisation chart

choice with that Praetor, but do not have to be deployed with

them and are treated as a separate unit during the game.

The wording of the HQ restriction says "HQ unit", not selection or choice or slot. A command squad is definitely an HQ unit, so it qualifies RaW.

I personally think your abusing the wording (such as the Furious Assault granted by Bloodied Claws RoW despite such a rule not existing), but ain't my opponent so ain't my problem.

 

To each his own

 

I think it makes sense both RaW and fluff-wise.

[sturguard]

If the following is not a deathstar with Hit and Run I don't know what is:

 

• Leman Russ
• Wolf Kin 
• Rune Caster with biomancy
• Speaker of the Dead
• Command squad of 3/any other small unit just to confer the Hit and Run to all the rest

 

I agree that our rules are pretty good. I think most of the problem people find is they're so new we still haven't had time to optimize or find out what works, but when that happens, the Pale Hunter is a hell of a rite.

 

Wolfkin cant be in a deathstar once deployed they are considered their own unit which can't join other units. Russ can LoS on them if they were within 6 inches of him, but other than that, they wouldnt be affected by the other units abilities.

[sturguard]

I really never got any sort of response with my 2500 Orbital Assault list. I'd appreciated some comment. I might be off in points since I am going off memory but you get the gist.

 

Russ

Wolfkin

Anvillus Drop Pod

670 

 

2x Dreadnought Drop Pods 

200

2xContemptor Dreads or regular Box Dreads- I was thinking dual fists with dual grav (so they are an immediate threat to armor)

300ish

 

2xDrop Pod with cheap Grey Slayers- they are just there to grab objectives 

400

 

So now I have roughly 900 pts left

2x5 Cataphractii Termies (deep strike in) with some plasma.

400 pts

 

Lightning w/Kraken- 225

 

Centurion on jetbike w/ squad of Multimelta jetbikes (outflank)

 

The biggest problem I see in this list is with the high cost of taking Russ and 2 other HQs, you are also paying 400 pts in drop pods which other than delivering your troops do nothing. 

[Nova_chron]

Depending on the opponent your list is solid but I could see some problems against mech with interceptor and possibly solar auxilia... you also only have 4 scoring units at 2500 I know of an ironfire list that will erase them quite quickly... maybe dump the jet bikes in favor of more scoring if you don't feel the need for the multi melta squad.

[Jackalwolf]

 

If the following is not a deathstar with Hit and Run I don't know what is:

 

• Leman Russ
• Wolf Kin 
• Rune Caster with biomancy
• Speaker of the Dead
• Command squad of 3/any other small unit just to confer the Hit and Run to all the rest

 

I agree that our rules are pretty good. I think most of the problem people find is they're so new we still haven't had time to optimize or find out what works, but when that happens, the Pale Hunter is a hell of a rite.

 

Wolfkin cant be in a deathstar once deployed they are considered their own unit which can't join other units. Russ can LoS on them if they were within 6 inches of him, but other than that, they wouldnt be affected by the other units abilities.

 

 

Wolfkin are just there to provide 8 extra wounds to Russ with a 5+ feel no pain and later in game detach and deny an objective if they survive.

 

In addition, if you're wise, since we're speaking about the Pale Spear, you'll send the two wolves to charge, then charge forth with the Death Star and benefit from the Fury of the Pack extra rule and grant all 1 attack more. It's super synergistic and makes a hell of a beatstick deathstar.

 

So overall:

 

Hit and Run

Feel no Pain 5+

+1 WS when charging

Scout

Re-roll run and charge in one turn

+1 to reserve rolls

+1 Attack to all in the deathstar if you make the Wolf Kin charge first (which you should if you're competent)

Counterattack

Preferred enemy: Infantry

Fearless

Re-roll Deny the Witch

20 attacks on the Charge or when charged at AP2 initiative or Initiative -1

15 attacks on the Charge or when charged at AP2 initiative 1 or AP3 initiative

Psychic buff with biomancy / Divination

 

Feel free to swap rune priest for forge lord with breacher shield for rad grenades and defensive grenades.

That's pretty dope.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Grieux

[Jackalwolf]

I really never got any sort of response with my 2500 Orbital Assault list. I'd appreciated some comment. I might be off in points since I am going off memory but you get the gist.

 

Russ

Wolfkin

Anvillus Drop Pod

670 

 

2x Dreadnought Drop Pods 

200

2xContemptor Dreads or regular Box Dreads- I was thinking dual fists with dual grav (so they are an immediate threat to armor)

300ish

 

2xDrop Pod with cheap Grey Slayers- they are just there to grab objectives 

400

 

So now I have roughly 900 pts left

2x5 Cataphractii Termies (deep strike in) with some plasma.

400 pts

 

Lightning w/Kraken- 225

 

Centurion on jetbike w/ squad of Multimelta jetbikes (outflank)

 

The biggest problem I see in this list is with the high cost of taking Russ and 2 other HQs, you are also paying 400 pts in drop pods which other than delivering your troops do nothing. 

 

I'd add 7x bolters and 3x combat shields to each of your grey slayers, their main strength is taking equipment on the cheap and that way you can fire from objectives and tank with a front line of 3 combat shields to increase survivability.

 

On the Dreads, I'd do one box one contemptor for variety sake :)

 

I'd change Russ from the anvilus to a Kharybdis and add 5 varagyr and a speaker of the dead. Same cost of 2 dreadclaws but Kharybdis is surprisingly good to thrown down enemy fliers.

 

And definitely yes in the jetbikes so you have something you can use if someone is annoying enough to say you'd loose in turn one if you have nothing on the table.

[sturguard]

Depending on the opponent your list is solid but I could see some problems against mech with interceptor and possibly solar auxilia... you also only have 4 scoring units at 2500 I know of an ironfire list that will erase them quite quickly... maybe dump the jet bikes in favor of more scoring if you don't feel the need for the multi melta squad.

 

Russ would have to weather a round of shooting from Alek's Ironfire list, but then alot of it would melt. The question is how many wounds would Russ take. Remember all those templates arent as damaging to him solo, they can only do 1 wound max each. I have found those templates are only damaging when you can move them and get 4-5 hits on each one, then you find yourself rolling some absurd number of saves. After the initial round of fire Russ can protect himself in melee more or less, especially against a shooting list.

[sturguard]

 

I really never got any sort of response with my 2500 Orbital Assault list. I'd appreciated some comment. I might be off in points since I am going off memory but you get the gist.

 

Russ

Wolfkin

Anvillus Drop Pod

670 

 

2x Dreadnought Drop Pods 

200

2xContemptor Dreads or regular Box Dreads- I was thinking dual fists with dual grav (so they are an immediate threat to armor)

300ish

 

2xDrop Pod with cheap Grey Slayers- they are just there to grab objectives 

400

 

So now I have roughly 900 pts left

2x5 Cataphractii Termies (deep strike in) with some plasma.

400 pts

 

Lightning w/Kraken- 225

 

Centurion on jetbike w/ squad of Multimelta jetbikes (outflank)

 

The biggest problem I see in this list is with the high cost of taking Russ and 2 other HQs, you are also paying 400 pts in drop pods which other than delivering your troops do nothing. 

 

I'd add 7x bolters and 3x combat shields to each of your grey slayers, their main strength is taking equipment on the cheap and that way you can fire from objectives and tank with a front line of 3 combat shields to increase survivability.

 

On the Dreads, I'd do one box one contemptor for variety sake

 

I'd change Russ from the anvilus to a Kharybdis and add 5 varagyr and a speaker of the dead. Same cost of 2 dreadclaws but Kharybdis is surprisingly good to thrown down enemy fliers.

 

And definitely yes in the jetbikes so you have something you can use if someone is annoying enough to say you'd loose in turn one if you have nothing on the table.

 

But then you compound the problem further. Now I need to find another 125 pts for the Kharybdis and added a 4th hq which is another 120 or so (as well as adding another 40-50 pts on the GS)- you won't end up with anything on the table.

 

Its my opinion it is best to run Russ solo, especially if he is coming down in a pod, for several reasons.

First, he is toughness 6. You add bodies to him, now he is toughness 4 vs shooting so more shots are going to wound.

Next, templates are going to hurt alot more. Let's face it, quad mortars are very good. Lots of people use them, and they erase infantry units for a reason, a round of 3 quad mortars can do potentially 30 wounds or more against a large unit, especially with the crawling first rule (or whatever it is called). Large blast templates do more damage. Having a large unit in effect means artillery gets more accurate as it can deviate and still hit.

Finally it makes an already expensive unit almost detrimentally so. When you are playing 2500 pts and one unit is 1000 pts you dont have enough units to take objectives or shoot.

 

If you drop Russ in a pod, more than likely you can do so in a way that only a fraction of your opponents army can shoot him. With the wolves within 6 inches, they arent close enough that templates are going to get more than a hit but he can still pass off 8 wounds. Russ is strong enough in CC that your opponent is going to have to try and deal with him, hopefully you end up in a situation where your opponent uses most of his shooting to try and kill Russ and in the end all he succeeds in doing is killing the wolves and the pod. The following turn you have reinforcements coming- whether it be Grey Slayers, Vets or Termies, at that point on turn 3 if Russ has alot of wounds peeled off him, you have him join a squad, but by that point you should have reduced your opponents greatest threats. Not only that, but you are hoping to keep your opponent pinned in his deployment so your cheap GS can take objectives.

 

Now, I dont know if it will work, but I think it can, I just need to find the right supporting elements for him, whether that be dreadnoughts, Leviathan, massed vets.

 

I dont think Russ scouting will work, especially if you setup first, your opponent can either keep his vulnerable units away from Russ or put everything in shooting range of him and you just cant count on scouting on foot, especially if you go the long board edge, Russ will never make it.

 

The only other means is scouting LR's, but again, if you go the long board edge they still have turns to go before Russ is going to get into combat. The drop pod is the only sure way of potentially getting Russ into combat on turn 2 and really that is all Russ does. He doesnt really buff our troops. He just kills things in close combat.

 

Of course, maybe I am wrong.

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

 

 

If the following is not a deathstar with Hit and Run I don't know what is:

 

• Leman Russ
• Wolf Kin
• Rune Caster with biomancy
• Speaker of the Dead
• Command squad of 3/any other small unit just to confer the Hit and Run to all the rest

I agree that our rules are pretty good. I think most of the problem people find is they're so new we still haven't had time to optimize or find out what works, but when that happens, the Pale Hunter is a hell of a rite.

Wolfkin cant be in a deathstar once deployed they are considered their own unit which can't join other units. Russ can LoS on them if they were within 6 inches of him, but other than that, they wouldnt be affected by the other units abilities.

Wolfkin are just there to provide 8 extra wounds to Russ with a 5+ feel no pain and later in game detach and deny an objective if they survive.

 

In addition, if you're wise, since we're speaking about the Pale Spear, you'll send the two wolves to charge, then charge forth with the Death Star and benefit from the Fury of the Pack extra rule and grant all 1 attack more. It's super synergistic and makes a hell of a beatstick deathstar.

 

So overall:

 

Hit and Run

Feel no Pain 5+

+1 WS when charging

Scout

Re-roll run and charge in one turn

+1 to reserve rolls

+1 Attack to all in the deathstar if you make the Wolf Kin charge first (which you should if you're competent)

Counterattack

Preferred enemy: Infantry

Fearless

Re-roll Deny the Witch

20 attacks on the Charge or when charged at AP2 initiative or Initiative -1

15 attacks on the Charge or when charged at AP2 initiative 1 or AP3 initiative

Psychic buff with biomancy / Divination

 

Feel free to swap rune priest for forge lord with breacher shield for rad grenades and defensive grenades.

That's pretty dope.

Few things your attack count seems to be off in terms of ap2 unless you spent 25 points on a gfb for the Caster. Russ is also not part of the Detachment as he is a low so won't benefit from the +1A. Priests are also only i4 so they strike slower than all other characters and with gfb slower than some ap2 units.

 

You still would need a Praetor / stock Centurion as an HQ choice in this list.

 

To transport such a unit you only have 2 options Spartan which means you get no firepower from your Heavy Support. The other is a storm eagle which is super risky and you may only see combat by turn 3 at the earliest.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[WolvesinSpace]

Here is a thought for 2500 pt Orbital Assault

 

HQ

 

Praetor - AA/DigLasers/IH/bombs.PB -170

Speaker - bombs/Aether Armor - 140

Wolfkin - 100

 

Elites

 

Varagyr - 1x Chain Fist/Frost Claw 4x Heavy Flamer/Frost Claw - 320

 

Troops

 

Grey Slayer - 5x shield 2 x Paxe 2x Psword Huscarl  AA/GFB/Bombs Legion Drop Pod -225

Grey Slayer - 5x shield 2 x Paxe 2x Psword Huscarl  AA/GFB/Bombs Legion Drop Pod -225

Grey Slayer - 5x shield 2 x Paxe 2x Psword Huscarl  AA/GFB/Bombs - 190

 

Heavy 

 

1x Kharybdis

1 xLeviathan GravBombard/Storm Cannon Armored Ceramite/Phosphex Dread Drop Pod -435

 

LOW - Russ -455

[Purge the Daemon]

Here is a thought for 2500 pt Orbital Assault

 

HQ

 

Praetor - AA/DigLasers/IH/bombs.PB -170

Speaker - bombs/Aether Armor - 140

Wolfkin - 100

 

Elites

 

Varagyr - 1x Chain Fist/Frost Claw 4x Heavy Flamer/Frost Claw - 320

 

Troops

 

Grey Slayer - 5x shield 2 x Paxe 2x Psword Huscarl AA/GFB/Bombs Legion Drop Pod -225

Grey Slayer - 5x shield 2 x Paxe 2x Psword Huscarl AA/GFB/Bombs Legion Drop Pod -225

Grey Slayer - 5x shield 2 x Paxe 2x Psword Huscarl AA/GFB/Bombs - 190

 

Heavy

 

1x Kharybdis

1 xLeviathan GravBombard/Storm Cannon Armored Ceramite/Phosphex Dread Drop Pod -435

 

LOW - Russ -455

How are you planning to kill vehicles if your opponent is simply running an armoured wall or Interceptor gun line you can't so anything to it.

[sturguard]

I initially thought of a Leviathan as well just because that is such a high priority target, but after using one last game and having it blown up on the first lascannon shot, I decided 2 contemptors or dreads are better. I also think the Varagyr are too expensive, given you have so many pts invested in characters, regular terminators will do the job well enough.

 

Id also save points on the shields and power axes on the Slayers and instead put a fist in each squad. 5 6+ invul saves arent going to do much, whereas a pfist allows you to tackle some anti armor