[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[SkimaskMohawk]

Interesting note of probably little value, but slayers can take a rhino regardless of unit size

[Baluc]

Bloodied Claw/Pale Hunters list @ 3K Pts

 

HQ

Wolf Lord 185

AEther Rune Armour, Great Frost Blade, digi lasers Iron Halo

Caster of Runes 135

Mastery 2 (Divination), Artificer Armour, Refactor Field,

Caster of Runes 135

Mastery 2 (Divination), Artificer Armour, Refactor Field,

Total HQ 455

 

ELITES

Varagyr Wolf Guard Terminator Squad (6) 372

6x Plasma, 6x Chain Fists

Spartan Assault Tank 370

Dedicated Transport, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

 

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought 165

Two Twin Linked Autocannon Extra Armour

Total Elites 907

 

TROOPS

 

Grey Slayers (10) 200

Huscarl: Artificer Armour, power Fist / Unit: 2x Combi Melta, 2x Power Fists 5x Combat Shields, Legion

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

 

Grey Slayers (10) 200

Huscarl: Artificer Armour, power Fist / Unit: 2x Combi Melta, 2x Power Fists 5x Combat Shields, Legion

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

 

Grey Slayers (10) 200

Huscarl: Artificer Armour, power Fist / Unit: 2x Combi Melta, 2x Power Fists 5x Combat Shields, Legion

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

 

Legion Support Squad (6) 235

Sergeant: Artificer Armour Power Weapon Plasma Gun, Unit: 6 Plasma Guns, 6 Close Combat Weapons

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

 

Legion Support Squad (6) 235

Sergeant: Artificer Armour Power Weapon Plasma Gun, Unit: 5 Plasma Guns, 5 Close Combat Weapons

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

Total Troops 1245

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron (3) 390

3 Laser Destroyer Arrays

Total Heavy Support 390

 

I see the army more like 5th Edition wolves where we take and hold the mid field while daring our opponents to come to us.

 

The Vindicators and the Spartan between them should crack any med armour and maybe get lucky with a spartan.

 

Massed transports mitigates phosphex spam.

 

Divination on 2 mastery level 2 psykers will make sure the Combi weapons shots hit when it counts plus acts as a buff to the grey slayers. Support squads are intended to stay just behind the main line and vape any heavy infantry/ robots.

 

Army is a bit vulnerable to fliers.

Powerfists and combi weapons are both 1 per 5 sadly so you can't have 2 combi and 2 fists. I think the best load out for Huscarls is AA, and Great Frost Blade and combat, lets you go before other Ap2 weapons and if you pile in well you will even gain an attack bumping you up to 4 attacks in the first turn of combat.

 

You probably won't need 6 chainfists, consider dropping the combi-weapons and going pure assault on the Varagyr, Frost sword and powerfists is probably the best loadout, with a speaker of the dead or Redblade.

 

Autocannons seem neither here nor there, 70 points buys you a Lightning with Kraken Penetrators much better investment.

 

I would consider dropping the plasmaguns for meltaguns. 1 they are still good at melting terminators and have the added benefit of instant killing 2 w variations and wound Castallex. But, more important they are assault which means you can shoot them and charge to support the grey slayer units and proc the +1 attack bonus you get from pale hunter.

 

Also lets not forget that 5th edition wolves have the benefit of 18 krak missiles a shooting phase lol

Edited February 6, 2017 by Baluc

[depthcharge12]

 

 

You could always use Red Blade (sorry he's used again) to use scout on your Gray Slayers and outflank to get close. Not guaranteed, but having acute senses helps to influence that.

 

So OUTFLANK THREE UNITS OF GREY SLAYERS TO JUNK PUNCH SOME TRAITORS!

So you ARE starting to see what I was saying! Red-Blade already starting to be locked in.

 

More seriously Assault out of outflank would have been a decent rule to add the Pale Hunter to combat the no drop pod limitation.

 

I always figure something out. You lot will be the first to know, I just wish more of our legion rules worked on models with the LA:SW rule.

It's kind of the same for AL unfortunately.

 

Nothing stopping you from running two Spartans chock full of Gray Slayers too haha. Find an effective transport for launching Gray Slayers, or just make them just two min squads of 125 points each (kind of a waste/tax) and the rest of the list is gravy.

 

I honestly focus the list towards point efficient tank destroyers since the rest of the army can kill marines so well.

[1ncarnadine]

 

You could always use Red Blade (sorry he's used again) to use scout on your Gray Slayers and outflank to get close. Not guaranteed, but having acute senses helps to influence that.

 

So OUTFLANK THREE UNITS OF GREY SLAYERS TO JUNK PUNCH SOME TRAITORS!

 

So you ARE starting to see what I was saying! Red-Blade already starting to be locked in.

 

Yeah, honestly tough to build lists without Red-Blade. He just does so much that you want all in one package.

 

But this isn't unique to the Wolves by any stretch. Think Reaping with Death Guard, Terror Assault with Night Lords, Gahlan Surlak with World Eaters, 3rd Company Elite for Traitor Emperor's Children, Maloghurst with Sons of Horus... the list goes on. Some models, rites & units just do exactly what you want and it's hard to look elsewhere.

[grouj]

You probably won't need 6 chainfists, consider dropping the combi-weapons and going pure assault on the Varagyr, Frost sword and powerfists is probably the best loadout, with a speaker of the dead

 

Also lets not forget that 5th edition wolves have the benefit of 18 krak missiles a shooting phase lol

I would disagree on these points. I would say claw and fist are the best load out. Both are specialist if I remember correctly, but the claw gives you everything the sword does and shred. So you get +1 attack and shred for no extra cost. I also would not discount the chainfist in the squad. I group of 6 of our termis with claw and chainfist can pump out 3-4 attacks (4-5) on the charge. If I did my math right, that means that roughly 15 hits on the charge at strength 8 2d6 is no laughing matter when it comes to penetrating even armor 14.

 

Also, we can still spam out missiles, but then again so can every legion lol

[GraemePaul]

I've re-jigged the list based on suggestions.

 

Pale Hunters list @ 3K Pts

 

HQ

Hvarl Red Blade 210

Tartaros Terminator Armour, Iron Halo, Heavy Bolter, Grenade Harness, Hearth Splitter

Caster of Runes 135

Mastery 2 (Divination), Artificer Armour, Refactor Field,

Caster of Runes 135

Mastery 2 (Divination), Artificer Armour, Refactor Field,

Total HQ 480

 

ELITES

Varagyr Wolf Guard Terminator Squad (6) 372

6x fost claws, 6x Chain Fists

Spartan Assault Tank 370

Dedicated Transport, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

Total Elites 742

 

TROOPS

 

Grey Slayers (10) 196

Huscarl: Artificer Armour, power Fist / Unit: 2x Power Fists 5x Combat Shields, 2 heavy chain blades, Legion vexilla

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

 

Grey Slayers (10) 196

Huscarl: Artificer Armour, power Fist / Unit: 2x Power Fists 5x Combat Shields, 2 heavy chain blades, Legion vexilla

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

 

Grey Slayers (10) 196

Huscarl: Artificer Armour, power Fist / Unit: 2x Power Fists 5x Combat Shields, 2 heavy chain blades, Legion vexilla

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

 

Legion Support Squad (5) 205

Sergeant: Artificer Armour Power Weapon Plasma Gun, Unit: 5 Plasma Guns, 5 Close Combat Weapons

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

 

Legion Support Squad (5) 205

Sergeant: Artificer Armour Power Weapon Plasma Gun, Unit: 5 Plasma Guns, 5 Close Combat Weapons

Rhino 35

Dedicated Transport

Total Troops 1173

 

FAST ATTACK

Primaries Lighting Strike Fighter 215

Ground tracking Auguries, 4 Kraken penetrator missiles

Total Fast Attack 215

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron (3) 390

3 Laser Destroyer Arrays

Total Heavy Support 390

 

Plenty of anti armour to crack open transports. the infantry should ruin most units in close combat. The re rolls to hit with Prescience are an all round help to the army.

 

I see the support squads, and casters of runes as flexible slots and you could use other options here

[Baluc]

 

You probably won't need 6 chainfists, consider dropping the combi-weapons and going pure assault on the Varagyr, Frost sword and powerfists is probably the best loadout, with a speaker of the dead

 

Also lets not forget that 5th edition wolves have the benefit of 18 krak missiles a shooting phase lol

I would disagree on these points. I would say claw and fist are the best load out. Both are specialist if I remember correctly, but the claw gives you everything the sword does and shred. So you get +1 attack and shred for no extra cost. I also would not discount the chainfist in the squad. I group of 6 of our termis with claw and chainfist can pump out 3-4 attacks (4-5) on the charge. If I did my math right, that means that roughly 15 hits on the charge at strength 8 2d6 is no laughing matter when it comes to penetrating even armor 14.

 

Also, we can still spam out missiles, but then again so can every legion lol

 

Would you believe me if I said I didn't see that there was brackets after the 2nd frost blade. Claw/fist does look less cool though IMO, I might use the Justaerin Axe-thingys and just say they have claws looks much better.

 

It was a much different time. A time before hull points... anyway.

 

The chainfist was more about the number of chainfists at the cost and opportunity to use them. 2 is usually a good number I've found, especially since they would have 4 chainfist attacks each on the charge.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Baluc

[Baluc]

 

 

You probably won't need 6 chainfists, consider dropping the combi-weapons and going pure assault on the Varagyr, Frost sword and powerfists is probably the best loadout, with a speaker of the dead

 

Also lets not forget that 5th edition wolves have the benefit of 18 krak missiles a shooting phase lol

I would disagree on these points. I would say claw and fist are the best load out. Both are specialist if I remember correctly, but the claw gives you everything the sword does and shred. So you get +1 attack and shred for no extra cost. I also would not discount the chainfist in the squad. I group of 6 of our termis with claw and chainfist can pump out 3-4 attacks (4-5) on the charge. If I did my math right, that means that roughly 15 hits on the charge at strength 8 2d6 is no laughing matter when it comes to penetrating even armor 14.

 

Also, we can still spam out missiles, but then again so can every legion lol

 

Would you believe me if I said I didn't see that there was brackets after the 2nd frost blade. Claw/fist does look less cool though IMO.

 

It was a much different time. A time before hull points... anyway.

 

The chainfist was more about the number of chainfists at the cost and opportunity to use them. 2 is usually a good number I've found, especially since they would have 4 chainfist attacks each on the charge.

 

 

 

I would consider bumping the priests to beefier characters since Red-Blade gives preferred enemy anyway.

[Learn2Eel]

I think you guys made it out pretty well with the Legion rules. I certainly wouldn't say Wolves are top tier but, outside of tournaments, who really cares? Here are some of my thoughts on them if you guy's don't mind an outsider interjecting; 

1) Grey Slayers are a great unit, but having them be compulsory Troops unless you take Russ (per what Alan Bligh reportedly said) does mean the (strong) core of your army won't change much. You really need to get the customisation of this unit right as you're going to be using them pretty much all the time. I'm liking the idea of the melee horde with Red-Blade as you're unit leaders should punk other Tactical Sergeants fairly easily (2+ armour and Great Frost Blade), that and the hidden Power Fists is a big plus. Alternatively, keeping them cheap with bolters isn't a bad idea either as you're still pound-for-pound better than most other Legions' marines in combat. 

2) Varagyr are a bit more complex, I wouldn't recommend giving them all Reaper Autocannons as they'll just end up being notably weaker and more expensive Siege Tyrants - I say this as an Iron Warriors player! I'd say stick to what they are good at which is melee, Frost Weapons that can be exchanged for free/discounted fists are no joke and the mix of Weapon Skill 5 and Fear gives them a big leg-up on most other Terminators. Also, don't underestimate the Strength 5 Hammer of Wrath, in 30K games you want every advantage you can get and there's worse rules to have than free Strength 5 automatic hits. 

3) Deathsworn absolutely belong in some type of Drop Pod if you can get it, but beware the lack of Fearless outside of combat and Leadership 8. I'm thinking a Speaker of the Dead might be mandatory for them for this reason, but a Land Raider/Spartan is a good alternative to consider. I'm thinking either Power Fists or Meltabombs are a necessity on this unit so that they don't get the embarrassing fate of being bogged down by a Contemptor. Keep in mind also that per their The Dreams of the Death Wolf special rule you don't have to worry about model placement in assault, if I'm ready it correctly all of them are assumed to be in range to attack. These are going to be brutal against armies that lack ranged AP2. 

4) Both Rites of War are aimed at melee hordes, which definitely feels like it will be the default way to play the army. This might be a turn-off for some but I think it's fluffy, just keep in mind that a lot of generic Rites of War aren't available to the Wolves. On that note, I think the 1 HQ per 1000 points (whether full or partial) isn't too bad of a limitation as most Heresy lists I see tend to run at least two even in smaller games, however the problem seems to be that the army is capped at 3000 points! Surely this is a mistake? In any case, the safe bet seems to be taking a cheap Centurion to fill your Compulsory then using the other two slots to taste. 

5) I want to give a bit of credit to Geigor here. He has Warrior's Mettle so he can join Grey Slayers without penalizing them, he's cheap and he's actually not a bad character killer all things considered. What amounts to a 5++ re-rollable in challenges might not fully stand up to a Praetor but Geigor is also much cheaper than your average Praetor and should mulch through anything less. If you want a cheap HQ to fill a slot, he's not a bad choice. Try to tag-team him with a kitted out Huscarl and he should do just fine. 

6) Red-Blade is awesome, no question; he looks like the Kyr Vhalen of the Wolves to me (a super valuable choice that's kitted out pretty much as you would hope). -1 LD for +1 W is a trade anyone would make. He has a 4+ invulnerable save but can still Sweep, he takes names in combat too - he's odds on to lose against a kitted out Praetor but he'll whallop pretty much anything else, including Walkers which is a BIG deal. Blowing up a Contemptor before it can carve through your Varagyr could be crucial. Works best with big units of Grey Slayers and Terminators (of any type), whether in transports or on foot. 

7) You need to be very careful with your Priests, they aren't going to really help out your Jump pack and Bike/Jetbike units but for everything else they're too good to ignore. Preferred Enemy (Infantry) and Feel No Pain 5+ for a unit are awesome for just over a hundred points, it's hard to get a good invulnerable save for him though so keep that in mind. I think the Speaker of the Dead is the obvious winner here, the Caster of Runes seems like a bit of an afterthought but that might just be me. 

8) The trick with Leman Russ is to keep him away from large units that can feasibly hit him hard, i.e. a big blob of Cataphractii Terminators with Power Fists, kitted-out Firedrakes, etc. Only models in base contact suffer the to-hit malus so a smart player can simply lock Russ in a challenge with a tank-character (not that they would last long) and then spill over wounds with the rest of the unit. Against anything else though, bid them good luck as Russ will carve through almost anything pretty damn easily. He's above average for a Primarch against vehicles but still needs to be careful against something like a Leviathan, though of course that's what bodyguards are for! He's also surprisingly resistant to shooting thanks to his conditional 3+ invulnerable save so keep that in mind if you want to send him out solo. When splitting attacks, I'd prioritize them this way; against Toughness 4 models that aren't Eternal Warriors and have multiple wounds, possibly Gargantuan Creatures and definitely Vehicles, use the Axe. Against Eternal Warriors or Toughness 5+ characters, Toughness 7 and lower Monstrous Creatures as well as single-wound models, use the Sword. Other than his one-use-only Howl, Leadership buff and the "take these units as compulsory Troops" ability (which opens up your list-building opportunities) be aware that he does not buff your army *at all*. He needs to be killing stuff, he needs to be killing them dead (yes). He's a Primarch killer but even so you still don't want Primarchs in general to be duelling each other as it's usually a waste of valuable turns. He might be able to kill gene-fathers quicker than most of the others (from what I can tell only maxed out Angron does it faster) but it still might not be worth going for that. However, being safe in the knowledge that Russ should auto-win any duel (or at least tying the opponent up permanently) can be a nice mental advantage to have. 

Overall, very nice and thematic rules. I hope this helps you budding Space Wolf players out somewhat :)

[Caillum]

It means we can actually only use the follow RoW:

 

Pale Hunter

Bloodied Claw

Orbital Assault

Angel's Wrath (needs at least 2x Storm eagles or Dreadclaws)

Armoured Spearhead

Skyhunter Phalanx (needs at least 2x Storm eagles or Dreadclaws)

Outcast sons

Zone Mortalis Assault force

 

This is spot on. And it's exactly what FW suggested in the first place - a very different (read: limited) way of running an army. Even "Primarch's Chosen" is out, as although you can take Veterans as Troops either way, Leman Russ cannot be the Compulsory HQ.

 

I suppose it comes down to the fact that they are very different, so having it reflect in the rules is fitting from a fluff perspective. I'm sure people will find their competitiveness on the tabletop, given time. Best to play it out for a while and see where it ends up.

[Caillum]

Actually, technically Leman Russ can run "Pride of the Legion" and take only Veterans as Compulsory Troops. :)

[The Native]

 

I suppose it comes down to the fact that they are very different, so having it reflect in the rules is fitting from a fluff perspective. I'm sure people will find their competitiveness on the tabletop, given time. Best to play it out for a while and see where it ends up.

 

 

I concur. People are comparing them to the current meta without having any in game experience with their rules. 

[Slips]

Take 2, stay on target.

[Jarkaira]

 

I suppose it comes down to the fact that they are very different, so having it reflect in the rules is fitting from a fluff perspective. I'm sure people will find their competitiveness on the tabletop, given time. Best to play it out for a while and see where it ends up.

 

 

I concur. People are comparing them to the current meta without having any in game experience with their rules.

This is spot on.

 

Also it seems to me that people want to get in a best situation in which they overwhelm their opponent by choosing right legion and right list in the first take. It takes time to master your forces and the first try may not be the best ever in the worlds. There are always setbacks in gaming as well as in life in general so people just better get used to that instead of thinking you are entitled to best gaming experience each and everytime by tabling your opponent.

 

Gray Slayers are maybe the best normal troop which you can have as it can be kitted out in multiple ways and is always more effective than Tactical Squad in close combat.

[Coptimas]

I think the trick is going to be playing the army as the fluff says. I know that statement might rankle but I mean it in the nicest possible why from a competitive stand point. The wolves were renowned for there direct aggression, hunter killer tactics. The fluff at the start of the army selection specifically talks about each unit being a independent war band. The Grey Slayers and Varagyr really hit the spot when it comes to flexibility and utility, and it is exactly that when complied with the specific legion RoW's that will make then devastating. 

 

For all intents and purposes the Grey Slayers when given the ability to outflank can be as nasty as a veteran or support squad of five outflanking when it comes to shooting due to combi melta, plasma etc and are cheaper and assault and move better.  

 

Add to this things like 5/6 games give you a 50% chance to have Stealth on turn one whilst the opposing player doesn't get it. Combined with +1 run with re-roll on charge and run distances, means that taking the bloodied claw RoW could really give huge benefits to those cover hugging Grey Slayers that have the potential to be up to there necks in combat on turn one. How about this exact set up, give up first turn if you get it, but with Pale Hunter RoW, 1st game turn charge, still in combat on opposing players 2nd turn, hit and run, shoot, charge again. 

 

The options are getting better and better. Just need a little more time to figure them out.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Coptimas

[Runefyre]

H&R castellax anyone? A Pale Hunter praevian confers it to his inductees. Could make for some devastating charges when combined with +1WS, rage, and an additional +1A if they charge an ongoing combat. Maybe not super practical but seems very fluffy to have Wolves automata that mimic their masters.

[1ncarnadine]

Well on that note, your Praevians do get access to Aether-Rune Armour for 2+ save, +1W and DtW re-rolls. +1WS on the charge Vorax & Castellax is very nice, plus Counter-Attack.

 

The flipside is that Hunter's Gait is non-Terminator Infantry only so the Automata won't benefit :(

[Baluc]

H&R castellax anyone? A Pale Hunter praevian confers it to his inductees. Could make for some devastating charges when combined with +1WS, rage, and an additional +1A if they charge an ongoing combat. Maybe not super practical but seems very fluffy to have Wolves automata that mimic their masters.

 

I had considered a unit of Wolf Vorax as a fluff unit at some point. But it would be down the road. 

[Runefyre]

Hunter's Gait isn't exactly the worst rule to not gain a benefit from. Being able to hit other automata on 3's and force LA to hit on 4's is pretty neat.

 

The "pay for counter-attack" thing is just plain stupid. Sorta like the NL's "pay for fear".

[Coptimas]

Well on that note, your Praevians do get access to Aether-Rune Armour for 2+ save, +1W and DtW re-rolls. +1WS on the charge Vorax & Castellax is very nice, plus Counter-Attack.

 

The flipside is that Hunter's Gait is non-Terminator Infantry only so the Automata won't benefit

 

 

 

Its terminator armor or jump packs so you should be fine

Edited February 6, 2017 by Coptimas

[Runefyre]

I mentioned this in the SW's subforum, but do you guys think that Varagyr being 1W is a typo? We've already seen afew misprints in Inferno, and I find it wierd that Varagyr are basically the same price as Justaerin (with power fists) but with one less wound. I would LOVE it if they had 2W, it would turn them from a fluffy only choice into a consideration (at first glance mind you, I plan to playtest these guys alot).

 

edit: am I the only who keeps pronouncing Varagyr "viagra" in my head?

Edited February 6, 2017 by Runefyre

[1ncarnadine]

I mentioned this in the SW's subforum, but do you guys think that Varagyr being 1W is a typo? We've already seen afew misprints in Inferno, and I find it wierd that Varagyr are basically the same price as Justaerin (with power fists) but with one less wound. I would LOVE it if they had 2W, it would turn them from a fluffy only choice into a consideration (at first glance mind you, I plan to playtest these guys alot).

 

edit: am I the only who keeps pronouncing Varagyr "viagra" in my head?

 

Hmmmmm. You know, even if it isn't, remember how people kept asking to make Justaerin two wounds? And then it came true because of all the feedback. Come on, the Wolves community has to be at least twice as persistent and vocal as Sons of Horus players

 

I honestly do think they would be fine with 2W, though. They're more expensive than Justaerin but with less deployment options thanks to missing out on some Rites of War, and get a few different special rules that set them apart. It seems fair enough.

 

I actually keep pronouncing it "varangyr" and adding an 'n' :\

Edited February 6, 2017 by LetsYouDown

[Jarkaira]

^^ Given all the buffs they have I wouldn't consider them being "only" one wound.

 

You are not the only one who keeps misreading stuff as I have read a lot of times Hentai Occult Blades and Hetero Guards. Somehow those all are somewhat erotic related so that might tell something about us as persons.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Jarkaira

[Charlo]

Probably 1W to balance the fact they all can have heavy weapons. Or else you'd just have superior Tyrants/ Fulmentarii...!

 

Plus they are great anyway :)

[1ncarnadine]

Yeah, true. I guess we'll see! Hardly anyone has even started gaming with these rules yet and we're already talking about changing some rules :P