[HH1.0] Blood Angels Tactica - Assault Cannons For Days

[Charlo]

I've been planning a dual melta Veteran squad with either Outflank or Tank Hunters. Working from the B@C set hasn't given me the biggest set of options, but I'm guessing a dreadclaw is on my list, now.

Slap on some inferno pistols and tank Hunter and stick em in a dread claw. Bye armour, even with ceramite.

[CaptainHelion]

Quite. And for the Time of Angels, I'll be needing a Flyer/Deep Striking Fast Attack choice anyway, so...

[Charlo]

That is an excellent point. And what is more US than a nasty box falling from the sky that sets all of its surroundings on fire?

[Theredknight]

How about a storm eagle? I mean they can ds as well can't they? And other flyers, especially good if you take a Damocles rhino and units with nuncio voxes.

It's lots of scope for deeps striking goodness for us, a very in your face legion..how blood Angels should be

Edited February 10, 2016 by Theredknight

[CaptainHelion]

Storm Eagles definitely have their place, I'd say. Edited February 10, 2016 by CaptainHelion

[Hesh Kadesh]

Why? They are 100pts more than a Dreadclaw. Their shooting is naff, even if you spend 50pts upgrading it.

 

Unless the SE is dropped to 160pts or so, it suffers.

[Theredknight]

I'm hoping they get a little drop.

 

But yes you make a point, even if you want to deliver terminators via deep strike, I think it'd be a kharbydis..

 

Just thinking of ways to use their fast attack up with deep strike.

I suppose a nice chunky unit of jet bikes would be better served on the field?

[CaptainHelion]

The place of the Storm Eagle is largely that it's a FA slot, which tends to be less heavily contested as compared to the Heavy Support slots, and that, like the Anvillus, it fills the deepstriking/flyer FA slot necessary for the Time of Angels RoW.

[Hesh Kadesh]

So is an Anvillus?

[CaptainHelion]

Sorry, I forgot to say that was all in comparison to the Kharybdis, as both are our only flying options for transporting 20 large squads, and both pack a reasonable amount of firepower. I'm in favour of Anvillus pod, personally, but being able to transport 20 marines isn't something to be overlooked.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I thought you were saying about the Veteran squad, sorry.

 

If you are packing a 20 Man squad to get in an assault, Tac Marines are fairly crap for it, because only 3 AP- attacks. +1 to wound can help sure, but you are wanting them to be in an assault, so why force them to be late? DPA is where it is at, especially when it flies and is an assault vehicle and packs 10 S6 Shots to crack light armour.

[depthcharge12]

Why? They are 100pts more than a Dreadclaw. Their shooting is naff, even if you spend 50pts upgrading it.

 

Unless the SE is dropped to 160pts or so, it suffers.

Yeah the storm eagle is just plain bleh compared to a dreadclaw. Having seen one get nuked out of the sky by a deredeo and then all but one marine dying (but then he got hit by the Aiolos :P), the Dreadclaw is way better.

 

250 points for a large portion of your force to come in late, most likely get shot down, and be vulnerable in hover mode or trading security for snap shots? No thanks.

 

Dreadclaws and Kharybidis for the win.

[Ishagu]

Flyers are really underwhelming in 30k in general.

 

The Deredeo makes quick work of everything, and things like Xiphon are ridiculously expensive, and will be jinking the whole game as a strong draft in their direction will likely knock them out of the sky.

 

The Assault Ram is actually good, imo, in terms of stats, rules and armament but too expensive.

[CaptainHelion]

Everything has a place. Sometimes that place is firmly secured on your display shelf.

[Theredknight]

So apart from 'rule of cool' or if storm eagle changes up, the main options are the drop pods.

Looking at anvillus for veterans really and kharbydis for terminator delivery or if you really want to add a big cc Tac squad into the mix.

[Blindhamster]

 

Why? They are 100pts more than a Dreadclaw. Their shooting is naff, even if you spend 50pts upgrading it.

 

Unless the SE is dropped to 160pts or so, it suffers.

Yeah the storm eagle is just plain bleh compared to a dreadclaw. Having seen one get nuked out of the sky by a deredeo and then all but one marine dying (but then he got hit by the Aiolos :P), the Dreadclaw is way better.

 

250 points for a large portion of your force to come in late, most likely get shot down, and be vulnerable in hover mode or trading security for snap shots? No thanks.

 

Dreadclaws and Kharybidis for the win.

Just shows that the flyers cost too much vs the mobile drop pods. One should get cheaper, the other more expensive. Dread claw etc alternatively shouldn't use flyer rules and instead should have somewhat different ones

[Hesh Kadesh]

The entire game needs a point restructure.

 

+30pts for a Dreadclaw, -40 for a Storm Eagle, -40 for a Kharybdis would be fair IMHO.

[Theredknight]

Well as far as we know, points re structuring was done before the weekender so we will know 2/3 months time what has changed, and what hasn't.

 

Tbh it's the perfect time to restructure, now that heresy has developed and become a 'thing' few points tweaks and rules changes see a lot more purchases made.

 

Like me..and mk4 assault marines lol

 

Although another rumour was kicking about that gw are looking to do another bac sort of set or expansion to include them.so might just wait out tbh..

[Ishagu]

Yeah assault Marines need to lose a bunch of points... Same with recon squads.

[Terminus]

The entire game needs a point restructure.

 

+30pts for a Dreadclaw, -40 for a Storm Eagle, -40 for a Kharybdis would be fair IMHO.

Bite your tongue, dreadclaws are just fine. Making them more expensive should mean getting them bigger guns. All the pods are priced appropriately except Kharybdis, which should be at LEAST 40 points cheaper.  If anything is underpriced, it's all the barely over 100-points heavy support auto-include choices like Scorpius Whirlwinds and Deimos Vindicators.

 

Jump packs are like 10 points per guy right now, they need to be more like 5.  So that would help despoilers and assault marines.  Breachers should be cheaper or get free melta-bombs. Plasma pistols are the 10,000-year-old joke that should be like 7-10 points.

[Hesh Kadesh]

One thing that I think needs to be addressed is the breaking up of Deep Strike into "Physical" and "Immaterial"; as in being farted out of a suborbital space ship like a shogun shell loaded with space marines being separated from a Teleport. While it can be mechanically the same, a "teleport homer" should only affect one or the other, same for a Nuncio Vox, while powerful things like a "Locator Beacon" can be used by either. It would help with characters; for example does Dynat have his guys Teleport, or does he just free fall out of Stormbird without a Grav Chute?

 

I'd like to keep the scale of the game; I'm not sure that increasing the cost of the already cheap items is the way to go forward (despite saying so with the Dreadclaw, which as a Dreadclaw user is more in recognition of actually how good it is as the cheapest vehicle in the game.

 

The Proteus needs a drop to 160pts, The Phobos should be 200, and a maybe 20pts upgrade to get the expanded hull that would allow a unit to run with an IC with a capacity of 12. The Caestus needs dropping to maybe 200pts flat, or its Ram made more damaging. It does absolutely nothing. Give it an afterburner rule that allows it to attempt to ram a target with a special out of phase Movement against a model it has hit in the shooting phase. Because how cool is overcharging a super fusion weapon and unleashing it before diving in while it's still cooling? Probably some rules interactions to work out there though.

 

A Fellblade should not really be more than 420pts, and a glaive at 470 would be pushing it. I don't think that FW understand just how crap S8 AP2 is at punching through things. It takes Orth to do it. The Falchion should be 2 shot, rather than Twin-linked, and 500. All Legion SH's should get options for Armoured Ceramite; perhaps on the better vehicles being AC taking it over the 500pt golden sweet spot.

 

Warhound; are fine as it, with a pair of TLD's setting you back a further 125pts total to put it into the 3.5K bracket). 

 

Keep elite options elite, but mookish units that are designed to be erased by the dozen to be erased by the dozen without throwing away 10% of your army each time you decide to move out from cover and do something other than objective grab.

[Terminus]

I'd like to keep the scale of the game; I'm not sure that increasing the cost of the already cheap items is the way to go forward (despite saying so with the Dreadclaw, which as a Dreadclaw user is more in recognition of actually how good it is as the cheapest vehicle in the game.

Do you still feel the dreadclaw should be more expensive given the nerf it will receive in the new red book, limiting disembarking troops to within 2" rather than a standard 6" move?

[Hesh Kadesh]

First I've heard about that. In that case, no, not really. Do you have a source please, intrigued to hear more about that.

[Theredknight]

That will make them a lot more useless!

[Slips]

Not more useless but less of the "Be-all-end-all" it currently is.