[HH1.0] Blood Angels Tactica - Assault Cannons For Days

[PastelAvenger]

 

 

 

I'd like to keep the scale of the game; I'm not sure that increasing the cost of the already cheap items is the way to go forward (despite saying so with the Dreadclaw, which as a Dreadclaw user is more in recognition of actually how good it is as the cheapest vehicle in the game.

Do you still feel the dreadclaw should be more expensive given the nerf it will receive in the new red book, limiting disembarking troops to within 2" rather than a standard 6" move?

Where have you got this from? This had never been mentioned apart from here. A 2" disembark won't even get you off the base so I can't see that happening.

[Jimm]

My biggest gripe are the legion rules. Love the easier wounding, it's a nice touch that shows the ba ferocity. But only having that with 2 limiting factors is disappointing. I think giving them a ec style +1 ini would have made it more rounded and fluffy.

People will argue I'm sure but ba are a mix of world eaters rage and power with ec speed and agility. So why only half the rules.

 

I hope by the time our main books out next year the rules are expanded a little which I'm sure they will be.

 

Love the assalt canons on everything and I plan to abuse this but would have like had flamers to be better than the 40k version as it's fluffy and fun at times but generally is never worth taking. (short of trolling people with a moritat)

Edited February 11, 2016 by Jimm

[Charlo]

BA do get extra initiative using the RoW :)

[Jimm]

BA do get extra initiative using the RoW :)

But it's should have been standard to enable ba to use multiple row rather than having to like 40k where we get stuck using the same det each game

[PastelAvenger]

 

BA do get extra initiative using the RoW :)

But it's should have been standard to enable ba to use multiple row rather than having to like 40k where we get stuck using the same det each game

I can not disagree with you more, you want to be a Combat power house then use that RoW if you want to use other toys then you shouldn't get the benefit. Blood Angels shouldn't be good at everything which you will make them by making this a Legion Trait.

[Theredknight]

I'm with pastel here.

 

Each legion (usually) has some limitations which naturally push it to certain row.

Our offensive one is great for us fluff wise.

 

To quote Horus from fear to tread 'we are the anvil, and that...

*points at the sky, drop pods and drop ships raining down from the heavens in red livery*

 

'That, is the hammer which will see you destroyed'

Edited February 11, 2016 by Theredknight

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

BA do get extra initiative using the RoW :)

But it's should have been standard to enable ba to use multiple row rather than having to like 40k where we get stuck using the same det each game

That is called having cake and eating it too. The penalties are not 'massive'. Compared to say Alpha Legion which gives away VP's. Combat is strong, and gets stronger as shooting gets heavier, and having all your guys turning out 17% extra damage for less wounds in return is good.

 

A unit of Blood Angel Vets in a Dreadclaw with 4 Power Weapons are wounding on 2's at I5

[Jimm]

I'm used to playing word bearers so I often have my cake and everyone elses. Guess I've been spoilt to date with my current 30k army.

 

With ba I just really wanted a quick high ini army which is what I love in 40k over other marine armies. Well that, jesus for a dad and having a hidden blood lust.

 

I can settle for hitting a little harder but just found ba rules a little uninspired

[Charlo]

If you want a high initiative army then play EC!

 

Plus in 40k you still need to conform to an army organisation to get the bonus, just like here.

[Jimm]

The limitations of the bsf is practally zero but I see your point.

 

I don't pick my armies based on rules sadly. Im fully invested in my blood angels and have been for a long time.

 

Just wish listing, I'm not as positive about the rules as many others it seems

[Theredknight]

I guess not!

I think they have good standing, and we don't even have a primarch or legion characters and units yet..

I'm picking up a few things this weekend to get into it.

Here's a question.. Would you use very minimal 40k ba details? I mean my praetor with sang guard jump pack, nipple armour maybe. And sgts just veteraned up.

Odd blood Angel wing on the leg?

Or just leave them for veterans maybe, and leave rank and file plain?

[koran]

Hi all.  Im currently looking at adding a Javelin Speeder to my BA (as I imagine a lot of people are with the new RoW) and Ive been trying to work out what to have as the change to the heavy bolter.  Assault cannon or multi-melta?

The assault cannon seems to go well with the missile launcher (being both handy at destroying light vehicles and infantry).  The multi melta is guarenteed AP2 and has the same strength as the krak missiles....

 

Not sure which way to go.

[Charlo]

Go for the MM or lascannons etc. Just go for maximum anti tank to get into a good position to Slam shots into side armour.

[Terminus]

 

 

I'd like to keep the scale of the game; I'm not sure that increasing the cost of the already cheap items is the way to go forward (despite saying so with the Dreadclaw, which as a Dreadclaw user is more in recognition of actually how good it is as the cheapest vehicle in the game.

Do you still feel the dreadclaw should be more expensive given the nerf it will receive in the new red book, limiting disembarking troops to within 2" rather than a standard 6" move?

Where have you got this from? This had never been mentioned apart from here. A 2" disembark won't even get you off the base so I can't see that happening.

 

The rules for Dreadclaw specifically state: "One access hatch beneath the hull. In practice, passengers can disembark at ground level within 2" of the hull." People have been using that to deploy within 2" and then move the 6" disembark that is allowed by normal vehicles.

 

This is to be clarified as not the case. And yes, this does make it kind of weird with a flying base, but then I guess you just put dudes within 2" of the flying base. Makes for a poor charge formation, to be honest. 

 

A good chunk of information on this board came from the following blog: http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/5959-penddraigs-summary-of-the-heresy-weekender-16/

 

I will quote the relevant text:

 

Rules queries

I had a chat with AB about some rules queries that have appeared on the forum a couple of times and, I`ll be honest, affect my army.

 

Kharbydis and Dreadclaw Assault Pods.

·         These do arrive in Hover Mode rather than flyer mode.  The narrative reasoning is they plummet down using their retro`s to break their descent (in-game Deep Strike Heat Blast attack) and then bounce up ready to disembark troops straight into combat.

·         Dreadclaw troops do disembark within 2” and do not get an extra 6” on top or any other disembarkment movement.  The narrative reasoning is due to the Dreadclaws unusual method of disembarking troops through the iris, troops` movement is taken up getting out the iris so have less distance to move from the vehicle.  The Kharbydis is a more efficient and larger form so is not affected by movement loss.

 

Dreadnaught Talons and Orbital Assault

This will be fully clarified in the updated version of the CAL.

 

·         A Dreadnaught Talon of 2 or 3 models may be taken in an appropriate sized transport vehicle(s) such as Dreadclaw`s or DDP`s.

·         When deployed all the transport vehicles must be deployed within 6” of each other before rolling for scatter (if appropriate).

·         The entire Talon counts as one unit for the purposes of the Drop Pod Assault rule.  That potentially makes a horrific first wave J.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Terminus

[Theredknight]

Ouch, 3 cc contemptors with assault cannons on their arms in your face? Holy moly..

By the way, someone said to me that they are vehicles. Looking at the rules, I just see 'walker' am I missing something or are they not vehicles?

[PastelAvenger]

2" won't get you off the flying base. So if that rule is enforced then no troops can be deployed from a Dreadclaw. The 2" gets you to floor level the 6" then is the disembark in my opinion.

 

And I will believe the Dreadnought Talon thing when I see it, this has been discussed time and time again, it doesn't need it again.

[Ishagu]

Lol some dumb rules there...

[Hesh Kadesh]

That's not how disembark works though? You disembark (in practise within 2", as per your quote), and "the model may then make a normal move provided it ends within 6" of the Access Point it disembarked from". The narrative reason is also horse :cuss, as Rhino's get the ability to move, and their egress portal is smaller. Plus, it's also an assault vehicle, how do they explain that movement, but not disallow normal movement? Does this mean it's losing Assault Transport special rule too, so that that can make sense.

 

I can't follow Heresy 30K forums, something I find incredibly annoying. I'll also wait until the rules state otherwise; it has also been a relative hive of misiniformation and wishlisting in the past - not to mention that this seems excessively well written and accurate for someone who was quoting FW staff at an event, where nothing similar has been made. The DPA assault rules are also explicit in that it comes down in Hover mode, unlike other flyers, so not sure why that is a question either.

 

Also, as for the Dreadnought Talon, despite the accounting and rules lawyering being easier that way, but it's incredibly powerful. "Here's 3 things in your face for the cost of one".

[Theredknight]

Yes I agree, it's all speculation until you see the actual wording...on all of it including the 3 big things in your face! Otherwise dpa grav contemptors will nuke pretty much anything Spartan size.

[Terminus]

2" won't get you off the flying base. So if that rule is enforced then no troops can be deployed from a Dreadclaw. The 2" gets you to floor level the 6" then is the disembark in my opinion.

 

And I will believe the Dreadnought Talon thing when I see it, this has been discussed time and time again, it doesn't need it again.

I presume you would just measure from base in that case.

[Slips]

Or you take the dreadclaw off its flight stand and stand it upright on the struts and disembark in a circle arount it.

[1ncarnadine]

Or you take the dreadclaw off its flight stand and stand it upright on the struts and disembark in a circle arount it.

 

from being there at that Meet the Creators thing, I think this is what's intended.

 

That being said, I don't remember hearing such specific rules amendments. But I was tuning in to the fluff side more anyway and also trying to think up my own questions rather than pay full attention so I'm not a good source.

[Terminus]

That's not how disembark works though? You disembark (in practise within 2", as per your quote), and "the model may then make a normal move provided it ends within 6" of the Access Point it disembarked from". The narrative reason is also horse , as Rhino's get the ability to move, and their egress portal is smaller. Plus, it's also an assault vehicle, how do they explain that movement, but not disallow normal movement? Does this mean it's losing Assault Transport special rule too, so that that can make sense.

 

I can't follow Heresy 30K forums, something I find incredibly annoying. I'll also wait until the rules state otherwise; it has also been a relative hive of misiniformation and wishlisting in the past - not to mention that this seems excessively well written and accurate for someone who was quoting FW staff at an event, where nothing similar has been made. The DPA assault rules are also explicit in that it comes down in Hover mode, unlike other flyers, so not sure why that is a question either.

 

Also, as for the Dreadnought Talon, despite the accounting and rules lawyering being easier that way, but it's incredibly powerful. "Here's 3 things in your face for the cost of one".

The first version of the dreadclaw drop pod did not specify it entered in hover mode, maybe it's a hangover from that? I do remember people dropping into flyer mode and only hovering for next turn to assault.

[PastelAvenger]

If the first version didn't mention it entered in hover how can the rule stating it enters in hover be a a hang over from the old rules?

[Terminus]

If the first version didn't mention it entered in hover how can the rule stating it enters in hover be a a hang over from the old rules?

 

The confusion and need to clarify is the hangover.