General Discussion Secundus

[Grifftofer]

So, since the rules have been coalated, I think it's time for me to get my arse in gear and think about balancing Mortera. My initial thoughts are knocking one off her toughness and perhaps reduce her Invuln to a 4+

I'd say that's a reasonable idea. She's incredibly tough as is. An alternative might be to remove Independent Character from her so she can't hide in units. Then the increased defence would be warranted as she wouldn't be able to shrug hits off onto other friendly models.

[Talonair]

If we go with your suggestion of removing IC from her, perhaps just make her a Monstrous Creature character. She already has all the benefits of one minus Smash (But she's AP 2 in melee anyway from her scythe)

[bluntblade]

In canon, is there any indication of how widely available Indomitus is during the Heresy?

[simison]

Check Reader's Notes. Think I found some kind of number on it.

[bluntblade]

Cheers

[simison]

There is a game of tag in the first Space Wolf book. Was not expecting that.

[Talonair]

Who are our most powerful Primarchs in combat at the moment?

[bluntblade]

Daer'dd, Hec, Niklaas and Raktra. Daer'dd wins on raw power, while Hec and Niklaas come closeish with more speed. Raktra is faster and just plain more vicious.

 

On the other hand, I don't know who's best for finesse. Icarion, Jade and maybe Pionus and Kozja?

[MikhalLeNoir]

For Speed amd Weapon Skill I would add Gwal. Problem is, that he holds back most of the time.

[Kelborn]

I'd leave the "power & skill" level vague.

Can't stand these: Which Primarch is the most lethal, powerful, badass discussion.

 

In canon, the only thing which (imho) is definite is the following:

 

Angron being the top melee fighter along Sanguinius and most likely Russ

 

RG is the best in creating empires

 

Dorn is the best in building fortresses

 

Perturabo is a mastermind in several categories (siege warfrage, logistics, architecture)

 

Kurze & Corax are the shadow warriors

 

Alpharius is a spy and tactician

 

Jahjatai & Vulkan are more than meets the eye

 

and so on

 

Everyone excels in his specialization and everyone can stand against his brothers. Besides Lorgar, he's a weakling. :P

 

But to answer your question:

 

Daer'dd is the most powerful in terms of physical strength, followed by Niklaas

 

The most lethal is another point. Raktra for sure. Besides him? Andezo is quite a potent killer / hunter as well. Like Mikhal said, Gwal is a very capable fighter as well if he wouldn't hold himself back most of the time. Jade is a master in martial arts / fighting with all kind of weapons and / or tactician. Azus is the best shooter. Icarion fits as well for his supreme abilities. Alex because of his ability of foreseeing (like Kurze).

[Talonair]

I was asking because I'm trying to make sure Mortera is balanced by comparison. That being said, these are the results so far. If I reduce Mortera's Toughness to 7 and her Invuln save to 4+, and remove her FNP roll, the combats I've worked out so far go like this:

Raktra: Regardless of who charges, the two statistically end up killing one another in 4 rounds (in practice one will kill the other; Raktra has higher initiative but Mortera does have 2 Concussive attack)

 

Daerrd: The two kill each other, but Daerrd is more likely to survive on 1 wound (0.7 wounds left in round 6) if he isn't wounded by a Concussive attack in round 3

 

Hectarion: Mortera wins on round 4 if he hasn't gone bonkers thanks to Bloodletter shard, the two kill each other on round 4 if he is bonkers (same result as Raktra)

 

Couldn't find Niklass' rules, and I don't have time for any more calculations this morning

[simison]

Well, it occurs to me that a quick update of the HW's immune to sweep could theoretically translated as the ability to fall back out of combat and still be able to do everything normally. Or add a negative modifier to the morale roll at the end of the turn to show that the HW are unlikely to 'break'. 

[Grifftofer]

Well, it occurs to me that a quick update of the HW's immune to sweep could theoretically translated as the ability to fall back out of combat and still be able to do everything normally. Or add a negative modifier to the morale roll at the end of the turn to show that the HW are unlikely to 'break'. 

 

Both are possibilities. Though I would favour the second and possibly make the Burden rule that they couldn't fall back from combat (Not sure what will happen with Go to Ground). Have to say that these previews have been whetting my palette for 8th. Now it just needs to hurry up and be released so I can see the Army lists and start making plans that aren't based on supposition and hearsay. :)

[simison]

Agreed. Wednesdays are my weekly gaming day, and I really want to test out some of these new rules. But I know better than to try to jump into 8th before it's half-finished.

[Talonair]

So, if I drop Mortera's Toughness to 7, her Invuln to a 4+ and remove her FNP, how many points do people think she should cost?

[Raktra]

Not even Scoria's T7, 6 should be the max surely.

[Kelborn]

FYI: the seemingly future of the HH

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333418-horus-heresy-future-revealed/

[simison]

So, eventual update.

[simison]

[saw a movie trailer, inspired to make a literary version. Background song: Battle Cry by Imagine Dragons]

 

"You think you're so clever, Warmaster."

 

The air was fire and ash as the city burned.

 

"For I know what 'Salim' means: peace."

 

Mahtva gorged himself on the flames as he led another counterattack against the invaders in green-and-bone, all too unaware of the dark whispers licking at his soul.

 

"But are you aware of the other Salem, I wonder?" 

 

A sigil, black and bright, blazed on the face of Aegis.

 

"An ancient city that was consumed in hysteria in the face of witches."

 

Scores of young women were herded into the maws of awaiting ships, an indescribable fate leering at them from beyond the stars.

 

"Well, Warmaster," the Tormentor said as he waved his arms over the ruined cityscape.

 

Alkylles fought back-to-back with a tall yet slender figure as they struggled for simple survival among a horde, former enemies united against something much worse.

 

"The witches have returned for what is theirs."

 

With a scream of rage, Alexandros dropped his shield. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by simison

[Kelborn]

Seems familiar.

 

Which movie was it?

[simison]

I wasn't trying to emulate a specific trailer, but I had just seen the Dark Tower trailer.

[Kelborn]

Funny, I saw that one as well, in the morning.

 

Though the first lines reminded me of Azmodan from Diablo 3. ^^

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hey guys, have a little poll ongoing in the wip thread. It is about hecs Pose. Would be cool to geht some input from here..

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323612-mikhals-wonderland-today-posing-040517/?p=4730387

[simison]

I'm in definite favor of Pose 4.

[simison]

Ha! One of the new 8th edition detachments is Brigade. I am amused given the use of brigades in the 5th legion.