General Discussion Secundus

[simison]

But would the personality remain? Or would it just be a husk of corrupted flesh?

[Raktra]

A husk I imagine, the closest we've seen in canon was Torgaddon's "possessed" form, but that was just using his memories from the way it was summoned to mock Loken.

[simison]

Hm, then I don't think Koschei can be a Pariah and still become a Nurgle Daemon Prince. Or has he changed his mind about that?

[Chief Captain Redd]

Didn't that change from all out Pariahs to Warp Suppressant Psykers?

[simison]

I thought so, but the debate came back up again when we learned what the Pariah rules were.

[bluntblade]

Hey guys, do we know where the Chaplain's skull comes from in canon? I know the Imperial Heralds have them before Lorgar, but little else. Also, do any Legions go without the skull? We may have the Scions simply painting it over the visors of their Chaplains.

[Kelborn]

Maybe Steel Legion and WoL. Could imagine to paint skulls like the Scions do instead of having real skull masks.

[bluntblade]

SL, as of the story I wrote, had skull masks, but that could be amended

[Chief Captain Redd]

Welcome to the age of combi-weapon spam, now that the secondary weapon can fire all the time. Also all the dakka your heart desires as twin linked is now twice as many shots.

[Grifftofer]

The Dune Serpents' Ruthless Precision rule just made them epic at close range. A full tactical squad at 3" could kick out an impressive 160 shots if they use Fury of the Legion at the same time :D

[Raktra]

AND THE BERSERKERS WILL... wait for more melee rules :p

[Hesh Kadesh]

I'm really not liking the look of 8th edition at all.

[simison]

I'm really not liking the look of 8th edition at all.

 

How come?

[Hesh Kadesh]

The system works perfectly fine, and has done for 19 years since the release of 3rd edition. When you look at 3rd edition, and compare to 7th, the only major change between the rules has been the addition of the Psychic Phase. There have been refinements and modifications, sure, but for the best part of 20 years, the game that we've played, and what has brought us online together is pretty much the exact same, sans for window dressing changes.  How to roll to hit, to wound, armour values and penetration mechanics. The only major change has been bringing in a bastardized version of Warhammer Fantasy's magic phase, and changing slight rules interactions.

 

Now, 8th edition is allowing anything to wound anything; a bolter needs a 5+ to wound a Dreadnought, but there's no concept of trying to improve your ability to play and move around things.

 

Now, 7th edition isn't without its issues, but that's down to the people who then create the rules; looking at Horus Heresy, you've got Mechanicum, Knights, Zealot Imperial Militia Allies, and Armoured Breakthrough lists, which are considered broken. Why? Why are they considered broken?

 

Because they allow people to take units which there is only a small unique set of counters, but in large numbers, and those counters don't have any other typical application.

 

Mechanicum spams Monstrous Infantry. What counters are there to T7 3+ Monstrous Creatures? Lascannons? But how many of those are typically in a list? 6-7 at most. And then when those Monstrous Creatures all have multiple S6 AP3 shots a turn, you're reliant on throwing out what bolters you've got, in the hope that you roll a 6, and they roll a 1 or 2. Poor balance, especially when those MC's actually score.

 

Knights are the same, apart from you don't have access to Bolter fire, and you've completely invalidated a minimum of 20 Models, and made other things unuseable against them, and the same for Armoured Breakthtrough.

 

Zealot Militia; 200pts for 100 Scoring units is bad enough; to then make them fearless is a joke. Look at the average damage an Astartes can throw out; 12 Bolter shots, hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's; that's 8 hits, let's call it 6 wounds over the course of the battle, which may even be in cover, further reducing damage. To kill those squads off the objective you'd have to have to get a full tactical squad, sat at 12", rapid firing for 6 entire turns. That's completely untenable, especially when that squad costs 225pts, and is under the assumption that it doesn't take any damage AND is within Rapid Fire Range since Turn 1. If you then factor in that there's no Armour Save modification on the 8th ed Bolter, guess what becomes even less effective.

 

8th ed is bull:cuss.

[Raktra]

Let's wait for it to actually come out before we turn into miserable :cusss.

[Chief Captain Redd]

Aye; I'm with Raktra on this one. We've not nearly a complete enough picture to see how all the rules are going to work together.

[bluntblade]

Meantime, do we have any particular campaigns for Book 2 besides Iyacrax?

[MikhalLeNoir]

From Sigis notes:

 

Part 1: The Drowned's pincer of the encirclement. Redd is doing that and I've given him freedom to(within reason) explore it like he wants.

 

Part 2: The Steel Legion's pincer of the encirclement. They fight 1/3 of the Scions and 1/2 of the DS. This is what you guys should be working on.

 

Part 3: The Dune Serpents go :cuss it and abandon the core systems, which the Steel Legion and Drowned have surrounded. The Dune Serpents then wage their guerilla war, burning Insurrectionist worlds and attacking their supply lines. The planned end of this was an ambush of the Dune Serpents by Nomus, who captures Azus.

 

Part 4: The Steel Legion attack Hepheasta as the Drowned spread out to conquer the rest of the Eastern Fringe and annihilated the remaining Dune Serpents, who are taking revenge dor Azus but are no longer fighting as a coordinated legion.

 

Part 5: The Void Eagles arrive and, together with the remaining Dune Serpents, manage to hold on by their toe nails to the Eastern Fringe, engaging the Steel Legion in a series of void battles and burning any worlds they can't hold on to.

 

 

 

If I remmwber it correctly it all leads up to Iyacrax.

[simison]

No more summon spam.

[Chief Captain Redd]

Been able to up my output again and I should be able to have my part up soon.

 

Also, is anyone else getting 2nd vibes from 8th? With the higher stats, anything can potentially hurt anything etc? Obviously it lacks the absurdity that happened at times.

Also the power level system seems like a great fit for Apocalypse style games.

[simison]

It's been mentioned elsewhere by 40k veterans that there seems to be a lot of 2nd in 8th.

[Skalpynock]

Sorry for the recent lack of answering, it would appear I've became involved in yet another alt-heresy project (the Legend of the Three Warmasters). Setting the foundations for a legion is clearly the most mentally costly part.

[Grifftofer]

Sorry for the recent lack of answering, it would appear I've became involved in yet another alt-heresy project (the Legend of the Three Warmasters). Setting the foundations for a legion is clearly the most mentally costly part.

 

I thought I recognised you :P My contribution is being fleshed out as we speak :)

[Kelborn]

Three warmasters?

 

Sounds interesting. Is it here on BnC or where exactly? Canon Legions or completely new ones?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Sounds like a lot of work^^