Lord Abaia Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Well Noise Marines are confirmed for ignores cover. Pistols will be able to shoot the nearest target when you are in combat during the shooting phase. And to hit modifiers will exist as penalties for moving with a heavy weapon and as an effect of smoke launchers. Pretty interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I'm liking the shooting rules. The big takeaways i think are -Shooting after moving, even with heavy weapons but at a -1. - no shooting within 1" of the enemy. - pistols shoot at closest enemy unit, but can be used in close combat. - cover modifies armor save, cover is more complex and will only off cover to certain unit types (example is craters give cover to infantry) -Smoke launchers offer -1 to hit -Confirmed some weapons will ignore cover, Sonic marines were mentioned specifically as having those weapons. -Walking out of combat was mentioned again and it was stated "Expect to see cunning generals deploying their armies in waves to take full advantage of this." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I love it all. With the changes to pistols I am considering making the NL army I always wanted. As for my Thousand Sons, better bolt pistols shooting into combat is always nice especially from Ahriman and Exalteds. I wonder if BS will matter? Will there be +1 to hit because: melee? Curious to see how Slow and Purposeful changes for our Soulreaper Cannons. I only have 2, but i'd like to use more Rubrics in the new edition. The changes to heavy weapons for all models means I can see Predators getting used again. Yes please I will move my predator and just take -1 to hit on all weapons. I am sure there will be better vehicle options for Chaos as usual but since I already own one I would like to keep using it to some effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 If plasma pistols are cheaper, as well as zerkers, then I see a nasty potential strategy. Being able to move and shoot heavy weapons at -1 to hit is glorious...but I feel that should be for Astartes, aspect warriors only (super human and psychically conditioned for war). But, it will speed the game, and guard will likely have a 4+ to hit anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I would say that there's no more reason to take powerfists and the like but with init gone we don't know how they will be affected. Hmmmmm It's all very exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Man I want to text this to my friend, but he made it clear in no uncertain terms he isn't interested. Nobody in my regular group, though I don't know if I can count it as "regular" any more, I don't think we played this year so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Dang sorry dude, hey I'll be moving to Knoxville eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I'm liking the shooting rules. The big takeaways i think are -Shooting after moving, even with heavy weapons but at a -1. - no shooting within 1" of the enemy. - pistols shoot at closest enemy unit, but can be used in close combat. - cover modifies armor save, cover is more complex and will only off cover to certain unit types (example is craters give cover to infantry) -Smoke launchers offer -1 to hit -Confirmed some weapons will ignore cover, Sonic marines were mentioned specifically as having those weapons. -Walking out of combat was mentioned again and it was stated "Expect to see cunning generals deploying their armies in waves to take full advantage of this." It seems like they're engineering it to try and reward strategy versus brute force min/max. Only time will tell if they succeed. I love it all. With the changes to pistols I am considering making the NL army I always wanted. As for my Thousand Sons, better bolt pistols shooting into combat is always nice especially from Ahriman and Exalteds. I wonder if BS will matter? Will there be +1 to hit because: melee? Curious to see how Slow and Purposeful changes for our Soulreaper Cannons. I only have 2, but i'd like to use more Rubrics in the new edition. The changes to heavy weapons for all models means I can see Predators getting used again. Yes please I will move my predator and just take -1 to hit on all weapons. I am sure there will be better vehicle options for Chaos as usual but since I already own one I would like to keep using it to some effect. I mean, it'd be cool if you got bonuses for melee shooting, but realistically, it should be a negative modifier because of how hard it would be to aim while fighting with chainsaws on sticks. That said, we'll find out. It may be that there is a negative modifier so like just walking out of combat, it'll be one of those things people try to use to disengage a losing fight without morale being broken, and still use their pistols to shoot while the enemy unit may be burdened by not having pistols, etc. Like I said, it seems like they're trying to put strategy into "Turn Based Strategy", but time will tell if they succeed where others, including themselves, have failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Abaia Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 The pistols shooting in cc is interesting, but I wonder how often you will be able to pull it off as the attacker with the new retreating rules. If you charge in your own turn you've probably already missed the shooting phase. (Unless charges are declared in the move phase, but I think they would have mentioned that in the movement phase article.) So you fight and murder some loyalists/xenos and then some more loyalists/xenos die/ run away from battle shock. Then on your opponent's turn if the unit hasn't been wiped, and if he decides not to fall back he gets an option to shoot you and then you have a second round of combat and battle shock casualties. If after all that there are still models left in the fight and you choose not to fall back, then you can shoot them with your pistols. It seems to me like pistols will be best on tough anvil type units that you want to absorb charges with. It does make me want to swap out the bolt pistol on my Raptor champ for a plasma pistol though. Even if just to use as a special operative for Shadow Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 @Archaeinox if it works as imagined screw bolt pistols say hello to hand flamers. D6 auto hits in close combat. Assuming that stupid grants fnp rule is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoK Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 By the looks of the video Marines 2.0 are real. Probably means that Chaos won't be getting upscaled, just new models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFingers Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 http://puu.sh/vBaJ1/ef14d1d3a1.jpg Please, just show them already, GW, I beg of you. Just give them a quick article, showing the models off like you did with the Kharadrons and say "They're coming in [insert date here], start saving!". Pretty please? A month of teasing has been worse than a decade of silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 @Archaeinox if it works as imagined screw bolt pistols say hello to hand flamers. D6 auto hits in close combat. Assuming that stupid grants fnp rule is gone. gee i almost forgot about the hand warpflamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I think detachments and formations are gone as we know them. Nope. Formations and Decurion are still there, and will cost point as said is the live FAQ (i think). They didn't say that in the live FAQ i think. IIRC it was just something posted on natfka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtoof Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 The pistols shooting in cc is interesting, but I wonder how often you will be able to pull it off as the attacker with the new retreating rules. If you charge in your own turn you've probably already missed the shooting phase. (Unless charges are declared in the move phase, but I think they would have mentioned that in the movement phase article.) So you fight and murder some loyalists/xenos and then some more loyalists/xenos die/ run away from battle shock. Then on your opponent's turn if the unit hasn't been wiped, and if he decides not to fall back he gets an option to shoot you and then you have a second round of combat and battle shock casualties. If after all that there are still models left in the fight and you choose not to fall back, then you can shoot them with your pistols. It seems to me like pistols will be best on tough anvil type units that you want to absorb charges with. It does make me want to swap out the bolt pistol on my Raptor champ for a plasma pistol though. Even if just to use as a special operative for Shadow Wars. I had similar thoughts, it's only really going to get used in big grinding combats where no one can afford to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshed Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 The entire feel I'm getting from everything is that they are really making this a faster paced game which means death is handed out in spades unlike the past three or so editions. I'm totally ok with that. Really. You know why? Because I don't want to spend 3+ hours playing a 1500-2500pt game. I miss the days when you go bang out a similar point game in half the time and it was brutal, streamlined and I could fit more games in a day. Pistols getting some sort of bonus? Yes please! Heavy weapons being able to be moved and fire? HELL YES! Chaos being able to have all the bits of chaos in the same army? Even better. The clumping they have done now really makes it that much better. Now 2.0 marines...well...we shall see. I'm not entirely sold on the idea of them really but this is a new edition and its going to be a huge shake up. Hopefully given all they have said and done so far they will turn around and really give Chaos some love, not just to the teasers we have seen of Nurgle but also the undivided legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFingers Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 The entire feel I'm getting from everything is that they are really making this a faster paced game which means death is handed out in spades unlike the past three or so editions. I'm totally ok with that. Really. You know why? Because I don't want to spend 3+ hours playing a 1500-2500pt game. I miss the days when you go bang out a similar point game in half the time and it was brutal, streamlined and I could fit more games in a day. Pistols getting some sort of bonus? Yes please! Heavy weapons being able to be moved and fire? HELL YES! Chaos being able to have all the bits of chaos in the same army? Even better. The clumping they have done now really makes it that much better. Now 2.0 marines...well...we shall see. I'm not entirely sold on the idea of them really but this is a new edition and its going to be a huge shake up. Hopefully given all they have said and done so far they will turn around and really give Chaos some love, not just to the teasers we have seen of Nurgle but also the undivided legions. I've said it once and I'll say it again. I bet undivided CSM will get the facelift they need after they're done with the cult legions. When it's Abaddon's time in the spotlight, the undivided will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 The Marines 2.0 don't honestly sound like they're all that superior. It sounds they're going to be more like a cross between the Custodes and the Astartes. I mean, I honestly don't know. Are the Custodes that much more devastating? But really it sounds like they are a plot device for Chapters to get a boost in numbers. Especially Chapters like the Flesh Tearers or Scythes of the Emperor that have fallen on ridiculously hard times. I don't know how many people remember, but they actually sound like the clones James Swallow wrote up in the Blood Angels novels. The basic concept was that you basically grew a clone from the gene-seed's dna, and you would get a fully grown Astartes with all of the gene-seed organs, as well as the genetic memory of all the previous hosts of the gene-seed. It got shut down because Fabius Bile infiltrated the project and made the clones into mutants who almost devoured Sanguinius' corpse. But if the project were made successful, then Chapters would be able to just grow fresh battle-brothers without the need to fight for aspirants, or even make them spend time as Scouts. Just start however many reinforcements you need, and in a week you can be putting them in power armor to fight in the frontlines. A lot like clone soldiers in many sci-fi franchises. So I think(again, I could be wrong) that they're just a background device. But Guilliman could end up being a jealous father and keep these new Marines to be their own indpendent force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 You know why? Because I don't want to spend 3+ hours playing a 1500-2500pt game. I miss the days when you go bang out a similar point game in half the time and it was brutal, streamlined and I could fit more games in a day. Pistols getting some sort of bonus? Yes please! Heavy weapons being able to be moved and fire? HELL YES! I really dislike slow games. Slowest game I've had was last year. The army was elite army as well, the units where pretty much the same. It taken two hour & 45min just to end turn two. Both my turns only taken 15 to 20min. It been one of the rare games I've had to give up. Yet I've fought a ork army with 180 models during Throne of Skulls event. We mange to finish the game on turn 7, with 45 min to spare as well. It going to be interesting. As they've said 1500pts will take around 90min. But do we get more models in those point limit or less? Taken 2nd ed going 3rd ed, the different in the list & model count. So 1500pts 2nd ed, was roughly 800pts in 3rd ed. I'm really happy with the Heavy Weapon just getting -1 to hit, rather than snap fire :D Now if they allow us assault out Rhinos, that will really make my day :D But so far I'm really hype & looking forward 8th ed release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 The pistols shooting in cc is interesting, but I wonder how often you will be able to pull it off as the attacker with the new retreating rules. If you charge in your own turn you've probably already missed the shooting phase. (Unless charges are declared in the move phase, but I think they would have mentioned that in the movement phase article.) So you fight and murder some loyalists/xenos and then some more loyalists/xenos die/ run away from battle shock. Then on your opponent's turn if the unit hasn't been wiped, and if he decides not to fall back he gets an option to shoot you and then you have a second round of combat and battle shock casualties. If after all that there are still models left in the fight and you choose not to fall back, then you can shoot them with your pistols. It seems to me like pistols will be best on tough anvil type units that you want to absorb charges with. It does make me want to swap out the bolt pistol on my Raptor champ for a plasma pistol though. Even if just to use as a special operative for Shadow Wars. I had similar thoughts, it's only really going to get used in big grinding combats where no one can afford to run. Most combats will be grinding if there is no proper melee weapon or pistol in the unit to be honest. The entire feel I'm getting from everything is that they are really making this a faster paced game which means death is handed out in spades unlike the past three or so editions. I'm totally ok with that. Really. You know why? Because I don't want to spend 3+ hours playing a 1500-2500pt game. I miss the days when you go bang out a similar point game in half the time and it was brutal, streamlined and I could fit more games in a day. Pistols getting some sort of bonus? Yes please! Heavy weapons being able to be moved and fire? HELL YES! Chaos being able to have all the bits of chaos in the same army? Even better. The clumping they have done now really makes it that much better. Now 2.0 marines...well...we shall see. I'm not entirely sold on the idea of them really but this is a new edition and its going to be a huge shake up. Hopefully given all they have said and done so far they will turn around and really give Chaos some love, not just to the teasers we have seen of Nurgle but also the undivided legions. Actually it sounds like the game is getting a lot LESS killy. AP is very limited and not as strong as it is currently as we've seen so far and cover gets added to the armor save. Means infantry will be a lot more durable. Before a Marine unit could easily slaughter some Pathfinder with their Bolter and Flamer etc. but those very same pathfinder now keep their 5+ armor and might actually have a 4+ save if they are in cover (which they probably are most of the time). Lasguns don't completely ignore Power Armor either so i doubt Plasma will. I think the game will be a lot more about objectives than actually trying to table the opponent. Hence the added mobility via falling back from melee and being able to move&shoot more efficiently with heavy weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 You can also move and shoot with heavy weapons do multiple hits or wounds with certain weapons. So i think its a bit of a give and take. More stuff will allow armor saves but that same stuff if getting fired more often or doing more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Makes you wonder if the death guard will still have some form of relentless so they can still move and fire without penalties Firing pistols into combat will be pretty good especially with Beserkers or plague marines :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 You can also move and shoot with heavy weapons do multiple hits or wounds with certain weapons. So i think its a bit of a give and take. More stuff will allow armor saves but that same stuff if getting fired more often or doing more damage. Weapons doing multiple damage doesn't affect regular infantry at all tho and weapons with multiple hits aren't anything new (also keep in mind the only weapon with multiple hits we've see so far are Flamer and that's because they hit automatically instead of shooting regularly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Makes you wonder if the death guard will still have some form of relentless so they can still move and fire without penalties Firing pistols into combat will be pretty good especially with Beserkers or plague marines :D I hope not. I hope their movement is like 4" because they are so fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 With terminators being 5" it makes perfect sense DG will be that. Maybe their termies will be 4" Who knows, maybe DG will be slow and Rubricae will be fast. After all, Wraithsight went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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