8th Edition Rumours

[Panzer]

 

That said, reading between the lines, failed charges might not trigger Overwatch.

Pretty sure you are wrong with that tho.

If a failed charge wouldn't trigger Overwatch, that unit would never be able to get in the situation to maybe wanting to shoot overwatch more than once.

 

Like, if the attacker reaches the target = overwatch once and then bound in melee so no further overwatch. If the attacker doesn't reach the target = no overwatch so the next time someone charges it would still be the first time they shoot overwatch or not....makes no sense, right? ;)

It's more than just likely that it'll work like in 7th. Attacker declares a charge, target shoots overwatch, if the attacker happens to not be in range the charge fails. Just that the target unit in 8th is still able to shoot overwatch against the next attacker that tries to charge them this phase.

 

Anyway, Overwatch already was very harmless unless there are full BS Overwatch DAngels or Tau who got lucky with their Markerlights and in 8th it'll be even more harmless since most weapons won't even ignore armor anymore.

Tau will be the one who benefit the most from it and only if Surpressing Fire doesn't change....and to be honest, if 8th is really an edition with proper melee representation and balance they'll need it since the only other option they'd have is shooting any melee unit to bits before it reaches them which is neither fun nor balanced.

[the jeske]

 

 

Makes positioning a lot more meaningful, and will probably go a long way toward mitigating the whole won-a-combat-or-got-ditched-so-now-we-have-to-eat-bullets-out-in-the-open phenomenon.

 

Not realy. This only means that one of two things happen. You have shoty armies that are not shoty enough to stop your from going melee on a reliable basis. think tau or necron in the past. And you get armies that can[eldar], w40k is not a game where positioning trumps extra dice. If an army is viable it is always better to take an extra squad of shoty dudes for a shoty army, then try to take some melee unit to do melee[as vs other shoty armies your just wasting your potential, and vs melee armies one unit is not enough to stop them].

[Prot]

Panzer, I don't think that's entirely true. Say I charge and we both agree I just have enough to make it to your stinky Tau. You overwatch me and two glorious Dust Bunnies bite the... er... dust. Now I'm short of charging you. I now try with another unit..... the process continues.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong.... just a consideration.

 

My own thoughts are confused on CC as a whole. That statement of Conga lining gun lines is interesting though but I had a different take on it. What if multi charges have no negative modifiers in 8 th?

 

But yes, to the previous point of consolidating into more units. In fact I have to be honest, that was a brutal aspect of third edition. On one hand it seems like too much, but on the other hand if people can willingly leave CC with no 'test' of any sort, that might counter consolidation to a large degree.

 

Finally another thought I have is the impact of what used to be instant death weapons. I think the idea of Double S instant killing half toughness is gone, but stuff like Force weapons may be D3 wounds a piece making them very good against those same targets we hated in 7th. Same goes with fists, and axes, etc. My hope is that unwieldy may not be a thing anymore so I can put axes and fists on characters again. Also,worth noting is no mention of challenges yet!

[Panzer]

Panzer, I don't think that's entirely true. Say I charge and we both agree I just have enough to make it to your stinky Tau. You overwatch me and two glorious Dust Bunnies bite the... er... dust. Now I'm short of charging you. I now try with another unit..... the process continues.

 

Where did I claim something else?

Of course Overwatch has it's uses and sometimes will make a difference but not as often as people may think.

[Khornestar]

 

 

 

Makes positioning a lot more meaningful, and will probably go a long way toward mitigating the whole won-a-combat-or-got-ditched-so-now-we-have-to-eat-bullets-out-in-the-open phenomenon.

 

Not realy. This only means that one of two things happen. You have shoty armies that are not shoty enough to stop your from going melee on a reliable basis. think tau or necron in the past. And you get armies that can[eldar], w40k is not a game where positioning trumps extra dice. If an army is viable it is always better to take an extra squad of shoty dudes for a shoty army, then try to take some melee unit to do melee[as vs other shoty armies your just wasting your potential, and vs melee armies one unit is not enough to stop them].

 

 

I wouldn't say positioning trumps extra dice, but even if it barely ever happens, having the ability to consolidate into new combats is better than not being able to. Come to think of it, it would be a fair question to ask how much it will really help when the opponent can break from combat at the beginning of his turn, still leaving my fighters in the open. If my opponent breaks from combat in my turn, would my unit get a consolidate move? They didn't mention it in the movement reveal, so it doesn't look like it. Hmm... I guess the only value in that case would be preventing that fleeing unit from doing anything during their turn.

 

Need more details, but at first glance consolidating into new combats sounded way better. ;)

 

We'll learn more about it tomorrow, though. It would probably be too powerful to allow a consolidating unit to swing at the new target during that same turn. :P

[Zodd1888]

I'd bet Khârn or some Khorne Zerkers have the ability to attack once after consolidating. GW is a fan of PnP RPG's and not having a IC/unit with "Cleave" in this system would be a shame.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

 

Makes positioning a lot more meaningful, and will probably go a long way toward mitigating the whole won-a-combat-or-got-ditched-so-now-we-have-to-eat-bullets-out-in-the-open phenomenon.

 

Not realy. This only means that one of two things happen. You have shoty armies that are not shoty enough to stop your from going melee on a reliable basis. think tau or necron in the past. And you get armies that can[eldar], w40k is not a game where positioning trumps extra dice. If an army is viable it is always better to take an extra squad of shoty dudes for a shoty army, then try to take some melee unit to do melee[as vs other shoty armies your just wasting your potential, and vs melee armies one unit is not enough to stop them].

 

 

I have almost found this to NEVER be true, while extra dice is always good I cant really think of why you would specialize so hard.  Doing full specialization for 1 thing ad Nauseam is a GREAT way to screw yourself against any good player. 

 

Positioning can very much be the deciding factor in games. Obviously in a dice game tossing MOAR dice is never a bad thing; this is how ork armies FUNCTION ;-) 

 

but to think that some how "it means nothing with dice" is ludicrous. 

[Dardl]

So if pistols can shoot in close combat would that make plasma pistols worth it at their current price? I think it might! 

[Sonoftherubric21]

So if pistols can shoot in close combat would that make plasma pistols worth it at their current price? I think it might! 

 

Speaking of; Pistol Warp-flamethrowers......

 

Kinda lookin way better all of a sudden. Lets see how they handle the "free enemy buff" in 8th >_>; 

 

Got a box of fresh Rubricae awaiting RULESSSSSSSSSSSSSS GW! 

[Dardl]

 

So if pistols can shoot in close combat would that make plasma pistols worth it at their current price? I think it might! 

 

Speaking of; Pistol Warp-flamethrowers......

 

Kinda lookin way better all of a sudden. Lets see how they handle the "free enemy buff" in 8th >_>; 

 

Got a box of fresh Rubricae awaiting RULESSSSSSSSSSSSSS GW! 

 

Free enemy buff? Good god man Your post has me lost in the warp!

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

So if pistols can shoot in close combat would that make plasma pistols worth it at their current price? I think it might! 

 

Speaking of; Pistol Warp-flamethrowers......

 

Kinda lookin way better all of a sudden. Lets see how they handle the "free enemy buff" in 8th >_>; 

 

Got a box of fresh Rubricae awaiting RULESSSSSSSSSSSSSS GW! 

 

Free enemy buff? Good god man Your post has me lost in the warp!

 

 

Warpflame in 40k sucks currently, its really bad in an arbitrary way, its an offensive weapon....that subsequently can BUFF your enemies. 

 

When hit with a Warp-flame weapon in 40k, the unit you struck takes a toughness test....if they fail? they take D3 additional wounds no saves. 

 

If they pass?  They gain a PERMANENT FNP save, If they already had one it adds one to their already existing FNP stat (and yes...it stacks per turn....every turn.) 

 

Yay arbitrary enemy buffs; CUZ KHAOS!!!!!!!! >_>; 

[Raven1]

Warpflame has to be the best example of Chaos is written to be *FUN. Hopefully cap like that is out because the main people they looked to are the biggest competitors in the game. If you dropped the FNP and Warpflame causing D3 mortal wounds on a failed toughness test it would be awesome.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Exactly, alot of the "random" is going by the way side. Thank. GOD. 

I would expect some major changes to the Chaos faction as a whole, especially given no new codex proper within....what? 4 years? 

 

Hopefully Thousand Sons rubricae are worth taking out of a restrictive formation. This coming from me; I own 40.....Ill own far more then that if GW makes them worth taking in every list.  Balls in your court Gee-dubs :p 

[Prot]

Units that activate gain a free 3″ move towards the closest enemy. This can be used to get within 1″ of other enemy units, if you’re cunning, dragging more foes into the melee and preventing them from shooting next turn, even if you didn’t charge them directly (giving them no chance to overwatch). Enemy gun lines will need to be careful about how they position their supporting units, so as to avoid getting dragged into the fight too.

 

 

 

There we go. It's like a bonus to the 2D6 (IF you make it within an inch). So you can now try to tie up other dudes, and it's almost like a multi assault without a penalty, and robbing the other squads of Overwatch.

[Raven1]

I suppose you are right since you charge in the charge phase and consolidate when activated in the fight phase.

 

Additionally, i see handflamers and flamers being the go to for units that sit on a gunline

[Prot]

Exactly.

 

My understanding is you declare the charge, but only the original target can overwatch. Resolve it... complete your charge. Then you and your opponent take turns activating. With the exception being that all charging units Activate first.

 

During "activation" you can move 3". If that happens to put you within an inch of another unit.... they are also engaged with you, but could not have overwatched this move.

[Sception]

During your combat action you can move 3", but it has to be toward the closest enemy model - not unit, model.  In AoS this has generally been understood as 'you can move 3" however you like, but each model in the unit must end it's 3" move closer to the enemy model that was nearest to it at the start of the move, and if that's not possible it doesn't move at all.'

 

This will somewhat limit your ability to bring other enemy units into the combat, particularly as the engagement range in the new 40k is 1", rather than the 3" range used in Age of Sigmar.

 

Further, from the charging article, you cannot come within 1" of an enemy unit that you didn't declare against (and thus give an overwatch opportunity to) during your charge move, so unless enemy units are basically shoulder to shoulder, you aren't going to be pulling them into combat with your pile in moves.

 

As such, where you can declare a multiple charge it's still probably advantageous to do so.  Yes, you'll eat more overwatch, but overwatch hits on sixes, and engaging the unit will prevent them from hitting at their normal BS in the subsequent shooting phase.

[Raven1]

Here is a question what will happen with Mark of Slaanesh. You can't have +1 init (which was anyways a waste in my mind a i see them as dakka units and not choppy).

[Kol Saresk]

We will find out when they tell us.

[RolandTHTG]

Here is a question what will happen with Mark of Slaanesh. You can't have +1 init (which was anyways a waste in my mind a i see them as dakka units and not choppy).

They've mentioned that Slaanesh deamons will be able to attack out of turn in some manner. I'd suspect Slaanesh CSM forces may be able to command point that ability too, but it definitely makes me interested in my Diaz demonettes.

 

What is the Slaanesh mark bonus in AoS?

[Panzer]

Here is a question what will happen with Mark of Slaanesh. You can't have +1 init (which was anyways a waste in my mind a i see them as dakka units and not choppy).

Probably more movement or always attacking first without having to 'activate' them in the fight phase like slaanesh daemons.

[DominikB]

 

 

Here is a question what will happen with Mark of Slaanesh. You can't have +1 init (which was anyways a waste in my mind a i see them as dakka units and not choppy).

Probably more movement or always attacking first without having to 'activate' them in the fight phase like slaanesh daemons.

That would be insanely powerful always going first!

[Panzer]

 

 

Here is a question what will happen with Mark of Slaanesh. You can't have +1 init (which was anyways a waste in my mind a i see them as dakka units and not choppy).

Probably more movement or always attacking first without having to 'activate' them in the fight phase like slaanesh daemons.

That would be insanely powerful always going first!

 

Not more powerful than they currently are unless they go against Eldar or similar tho. ^^

[Skallagoose]

 

 

 

So if pistols can shoot in close combat would that make plasma pistols worth it at their current price? I think it might! 

 

Speaking of; Pistol Warp-flamethrowers......

 

Kinda lookin way better all of a sudden. Lets see how they handle the "free enemy buff" in 8th >_>; 

 

Got a box of fresh Rubricae awaiting RULESSSSSSSSSSSSSS GW! 

 

Free enemy buff? Good god man Your post has me lost in the warp!

 

 

Warpflame in 40k sucks currently, its really bad in an arbitrary way, its an offensive weapon....that subsequently can BUFF your enemies. 

 

When hit with a Warp-flame weapon in 40k, the unit you struck takes a toughness test....if they fail? they take D3 additional wounds no saves. 

 

If they pass?  They gain a PERMANENT FNP save, If they already had one it adds one to their already existing FNP stat (and yes...it stacks per turn....every turn.) 

 

Yay arbitrary enemy buffs; CUZ KHAOS!!!!!!!! >_>; 

 

 

I'm fine with warp flame giving the enemy a benefit. I'd like it be something like AoS where after the wounds are allocated roll a d6. 456 the enemy takes d3 more mortal wounds, on a 123 the enemy gains back d3 wounds. Nothing to keep track of, it just happens. Warpflame flamers were terrible in 7th because so much has armor 3 and AP4 is just TERRIBLE. -1 or -2 rend is no joke in AoS, so a full unit of Flamer Tsons can seriously bring the pain, especially if flamers ignore cover

 

 

Here is a question what will happen with Mark of Slaanesh. You can't have +1 init (which was anyways a waste in my mind a i see them as dakka units and not choppy).

MoS in AoS is different per model. Marks usually just allow models to join battalions are get specific spell upgrades. MoS Daemonprinces allow the daemonprince to determine when it attacks in close combat (so attack first), daemonettes have the ability to run and charge in the same turn (but i honestly expect that for a lot of CC orientated forces). Look at either Speed on the board or speed in CC

[Plaguecaster]

Morale is meant to be tomorrow so should be interesting to see how it works