8th Edition Rumours

[Ishagu]

KBs probably have more Base attacks now? I expect statlines to change.

[Trevak Dal]

I hope so...but maybe assault marine style units (zerkers, asm, raptors, vanguard vets, anything with pistol/weapon) will get +1 attack as they don't have a primary weapon to swap from?

[Sonoftherubric21]

If we are losing the "+1 attack for charging" or the "duel weapons attack bonus" I would assume that many units will get far higher base attack stats. 

I wouldn't be shocked to see 3 attacks base per zerker + unit leaders 4 attacks, or something akin to it.

 

I would also guess that we will see alot of melee options and bonuses built into character interactions / AOE buffs. Considering it looks like a shooting edition at the moment.  Havent seen alot of Melee stuff yet, so once we see more of that we can finally gauge melee oriented armies. 

[Khornestar]

I think additional attacks in their profile are all but guaranteed.

 

As for people changing their lists because too many other people are playing similar lists, I kinda scratch my head. I suppose some people absolutely must feel as if their preferences are unique and special, but I don't feel this way. If someone plays the same list as me, I call them Slaughter Brother. Plus, it's unlikely that they're painted or modeled the same.

[Kol Saresk]

I think additional attacks in their profile are all but guaranteed.

 

As for people changing their lists because too many other people are playing similar lists, I kinda scratch my head. I suppose some people absolutely must feel as if their preferences are unique and special, but I don't feel this way. If someone plays the same list as me, I call them Slaughter Brother. Plus, it's unlikely that they're painted or modeled the same.

Well, I'm not saying that players will be changing their lists, I'm just commenting on the fact that the articles says that GW is putting the points in a separate section so they can change them whenver they feel they need to impact the meta without invalidating the datasheets. "Too many people using flamers? Let's make them too expensive to use instead of nerfing them."

[Khornestar]

Ooooh okay, I get ya. Misunderstood.

[MoGuy]

I am really stoked to see how characters will end up working. Some details on the whole "heroic intervention" mechanic would have been nice. 

 

The general direction for 8th edition seems to be going towards stuff dying faster, thus resulting in a faster game. And since the new edition has been tested quite a bit I think it's fair to assume that Zerkers will be the awesome bloodcraving maniacs that they always wanted to be. GW repeatedly said that old models will get a chance to shine. So if there is hope out there for my Wyches, Wracks and Hellions to see the table then Zerkers being awesome in CC is very, very reasonable. ;)

[Sonoftherubric21]

There is so much information coming out, once all those books hit the boards (and metas) shall be rife with change..... Excellent......

[Midnightmare]

Looking at the Daemon bonuses on their faction focus, I wonder if they will be the same as the marks of respective Gods? +1S and +1A for MoK or always strike first MoS?

[Vanger]

Why would the annual reballancing be a bad thing? Narartive players are not affected, competitive people are expected to change their armies according to the meta. And this way no army gets left behind.

The only thing I hope is, that GW won't use this to sell new toys.

 

On the topic of no bonus attack for dualwielding. You forget that you can shoot even in close combat. On the charge this means 1 less attack, that's right, but on any other round of close combat, it's usualy the equivalent of their basic attack.

[Midnightmare]

Plasma pistols for Berzerkers? :D

[Sception]

Why would the annual reballancing be a bad thing? Narartive players are not affected, competitive people are expected to change their armies according to the meta. And this way no army gets left behind.

The only thing I hope is, that GW won't use this to sell new toys.

 

On the topic of no bonus attack for dualwielding. You forget that you can shoot even in close combat. On the charge this means 1 less attack, that's right, but on any other round of close combat, it's usualy the equivalent of their basic attack.

 

Actually, it's only about half as many extra attacks?  Because you only shoot during your turn, but you fight in melee in both players turns.  Also, do we have some sort of confirmation that you can't shoot pistols the turn you charge?

[Kol Saresk]

I mean, to me, the rebalancing of points is that narrative and competitive still use points if I understand what they said correctly. Narrative goes by power level first, and then uses points to flesh out gear while competitive is just points. Could be totally wrong.

 

So as a result, narrative armies can be affected, if I understand correctly.

 

As for competitive, the meta should be similar to the Horus Heresy where yes, some armies are more common than others because of mathammer, but any list is pretty much viable because all of the checks and balances mean that the most mathammer 30K army can still get taken out by the least mathammer 30K army.

 

And right now, it just seems like GW is saying "We're trying to make it so everyone can have their own unique lists, but if it gets too common, then we'll try and make the list unviable so everyone stops playing with it." It's like they're encouraging with fear while at the same time directly daring the competitive community to just try and make a list they can't FAQ into nonviability.

[Sception]

From what I understood, narrative goes by power level, period.  No points.  No paying extra for wargear options.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I mean, to me, the rebalancing of points is that narrative and competitive still use points if I understand what they said correctly. Narrative goes by power level first, and then uses points to flesh out gear while competitive is just points. Could be totally wrong.

 

So as a result, narrative armies can be affected, if I understand correctly.

 

As for competitive, the meta should be similar to the Horus Heresy where yes, some armies are more common than others because of mathammer, but any list is pretty much viable because all of the checks and balances mean that the most mathammer 30K army can still get taken out by the least mathammer 30K army.

 

And right now, it just seems like GW is saying "We're trying to make it so everyone can have their own unique lists, but if it gets too common, then we'll try and make the list unviable so everyone stops playing with it." It's like they're encouraging with fear while at the same time directly daring the competitive community to just try and make a list they can't FAQ into nonviability.

 

Okay so major agreement, and disagreement here. 

 

The agreement; the meta to be more like Horus Heresy with ANY list having definitive viability even when used in a "fluffy" or "crunch" variety, as you said...both tend to work.  Adore this concept, it being brought into 40k is just the thing we needed.

 

The disagreement; It feels a tad cynical to look at annual updates that way Kol, its not that they would nerf a list into crap-ti-tude, its that a list that a huge number of tourney players default should (in some ways) be reigned in, and the best way to do it without effecting publications is to change the points costs. (it looks like an easy solution overall, at least, from my perspective)

 

When you get a "first order optimal strategy" (to take a fighting-game phrase for this conversation) out of a game, it should probably be taken care of, especially when it leads to things like rampant power-gamed net listing.  

[MoGuy]

 

 

The agreement; the meta to be more like Horus Heresy with ANY list having definitive viability even when used in a "fluffy" or "crunch" variety, as you said...both tend to work.  Adore this concept, it being brought into 40k is just the thing we needed.

 

Sounds really nice but I'll only believe this when I can put my Militarum Tempestus on the table without allies and win against Eldar. :p

 

 

 

The disagreement; It feels a tad cynical to look at annual updates that way Kol, its not that they would nerf a list into crap-ti-tude

 

Agreed. GW isn't going to punish players for bringing the obvious strongest units to tournaments. However, they want to incourage diverse list-building instead of people spamming Riptide Wings etc. And with the launch of 8th edition the goal is to make every unit viable, thus we simply won't see a few select units being spammed to crush everyone who dares to play something fluffy. If, however, certain units turn out to be too dominant, GW will nerf/change these units at the end of the year (when the yearly update arrives). They aren't going to make Imperial Knights unplayable if they turn out to be too strong. They would just for example nerf their wounds a bit or adjust points etc. 

[MoGuy]

I just realised: We aren't "locked on" to a unit that we want to charge, right? I mean everything basically has split fire so we could fire at two different units and either choose which one of those we want to charge or - and I think this will be more likely -  we declare a charge, roll 2D6 and then we can pick any unit as our target if it is within the rolled distance. Just like in AoS. Sweet! :D

[Raven1]

@Midnight Runner assuming your pistol still didn't explode in your face.

 

From the demi faction focus I expect CSM benefits to be different from ours, but if we have a combined demon/ CSM army those might overlap giving Rubrics the Tzeentch demon buff +1 inv save.

[Vanger]

 

Why would the annual reballancing be a bad thing? Narartive players are not affected, competitive people are expected to change their armies according to the meta. And this way no army gets left behind.

The only thing I hope is, that GW won't use this to sell new toys.

 

On the topic of no bonus attack for dualwielding. You forget that you can shoot even in close combat. On the charge this means 1 less attack, that's right, but on any other round of close combat, it's usualy the equivalent of their basic attack.

 

Actually, it's only about half as many extra attacks?  Because you only shoot during your turn, but you fight in melee in both players turns.  Also, do we have some sort of confirmation that you can't shoot pistols the turn you charge?

 

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about the opponents turn :D And I said nothing about can't shoot before charge. But at the moment, you can shoot before charge and get the extra attack for having CCW+pistol.

 

Anyway, we can be sure only when we see all the rules. Khorne, I hate the wait...

[MoGuy]

Entry on the Stratagems is online. Seems pretty dope! I'll bet the Orks get a faction specific one called "MORE DAKKA!". :') If we get some special Stratagems per Chaos Faction I think TSons will get something like "spend 1 CP, re-roll X number of failed Psychic Tests" etc. 

 

Aaaargh, I want to know what other Psychic Powers there will be! It would be so awesome if the Tzeentch Powers for the dust legionnaires will actually be good instead of being that forced bunch of "hihi, it's the lore of change so we have to make these powers as random as possible!"... Just let me blast those Grey Knights into smouldering bits already! "But we are the Psychic Elite of the Imperium!" - "You had to say it! Now I'll have to open that can of "whoop ass" and get you some hot servings of Doombolt!" *Exalted Sorcerer making pew pew noises as he blasts apart that Grey Knight Librarian*

[Sonoftherubric21]

Entry on the Stratagems is online. Seems pretty dope! I'll bet the Orks get a faction specific one called "MORE DAKKA!". :') If we get some special Stratagems per Chaos Faction I think TSons will get something like "spend 1 CP, re-roll X number of failed Psychic Tests" etc. 

 

Aaaargh, I want to know what other Psychic Powers there will be! It would be so awesome if the Tzeentch Powers for the dust legionnaires will actually be good instead of being that forced bunch of "hihi, it's the lore of change so we have to make these powers as random as possible!"...

 

While I also have high hopes for Faction-specifics.... I will say this; Even if we DONT get a full "lore" (at the start till we get our codex I dont think we will) I have pretty good faith that Gw will make Exalteds/Sorcerers/scarab occult sorcerers have a couple spells each for a decent toolkit across the faction (this is NOT including Magnus or Ahriman) 

 

I think that our Scarab Occult and our Rubricae are actually becoming the on-table threats they needed to be so that if our psyker ability goes pear-shaped we actually have a good amount of threat on the table.

 

A gent on Dakkadakka ran a number crunch for the Rubricae under the new rule-set regarding various armor saves.....Long story short; their damage curve is now a legit "smooth curve" rather then a sheer-cliff drop off at armor value 2+.  they went from "MEQ hate" to "Generalist unit" which is *EXACTLY* what we needed as our only troop slot.  Even if they retain similar point costs Ill stand by that they will be decent on the table. (they sure as heck wont go UP in cost lol) 

 

They pose legit threat to everything from basic infantry, termies, weaker vehicles, and are fairly resilient with All is Dust in effect. 

 

TL;DR - With the way Scarab Occult and Rubrics are coming out.....We wont Crutch psyker powers "quite" so hard. 

[Trevak Dal]

Plasma pistols for Berzerkers? :D

What about dual bolt pistols for GUNZerkers?

 

I wonder if all the psychic lores are going away? I didn't really get to use them that much, (2 sorcerers in my army)

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Warhammer World web site has just posted up some info on Warhammer Fest, which is less than two weeks.

 

So both Saturday & Sunday

 

12pm, 1pm & 3pm - Citadel designers: Force of Nurgle with Aly Morrison & Maxime Pastoreal

12pm Eavy Metal, painting Death Guard with Max & Aiden

[Dragonlover]

A note on the yearly rebalance: they'll also use it to bring up underperforming units. Hell, in the next Generals Handbook they're discounting the points for an entire faction.

 

Dragonlover

[Dinobot]

In one breath with announcing primaris Marines and Primaris Dreadnoughts GW just teased us with new CSM Warriors taking up with Gorillaman's Jazz. Possibly Deathguard/Nurgle related