8th Edition Rumours

[1000 Sons]

Typhus will hopefully get some giant bloated model, can't wait to see him.

[hopkins]

index chaos starting to leak

http://i.imgur.com/2HceT1N.jpg

 

[Panzer]

"starting to leak" he says. :D

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333990-leaked-chaos-space-marine-rules/

[hopkins]

"starting to leak" he says.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333990-leaked-chaos-space-marine-rules/

for those of us in this sub-forum who might not venture into the soup kitchen ;)

[WarriorFish]

Quite an interesting read, seems some nice point drops - but that's all in comparison to now which obviously might not pan out as a benchmark. Good to see CSM also dropping to 13pts though I'm sad to see the option to buy CCWs gone. I'll have to put my BP/CCW models into a squad, maybe put them in an expensive Rhino and go beating people up. Could be a good option for an infantry heavy force? That or a Land Raider they seem pretty meaty now (finally).

 

31pts for Termies seems quite nice especially as I have 15 to build, but much will depend on upgrade costs. I'm hoping Havocs will be looking good :)

[DominikB]

"starting to leak" he says. :D

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333990-leaked-chaos-space-marine-rules/

Any leaks of Fabius Bile rules in 8th?

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Quite an interesting read, seems some nice point drops - but that's all in comparison to now which obviously might not pan out as a benchmark. Good to see CSM also dropping to 13pts though I'm sad to see the option to buy CCWs gone. I'll have to put my BP/CCW models into a squad, maybe put them in an expensive Rhino and go beating people up. Could be a good option for an infantry heavy force? That or a Land Raider they seem pretty meaty now (finally).

31pts for Termies seems quite nice especially as I have 15 to build, but much will depend on upgrade costs. I'm hoping Havocs will be looking good

No changes to Chaos Marines or Terminators on the point cost side, as they are currently

I've not seen the part about Close Combat option for Chaos Marines, have I miss something. The rumour topic just shown Abaddon, Oblits, Havocs, Land Raider, Heldrake.

I've notice that look like there will no longer been any tanks units? Only going by the stuff currently posted, just with the Vindicator & Predator.

Interested to see how the Legion rule look.

[balordazul]

Wow the defiler went up again in points I really hope it has gotten better.  

 

Plague Marines went down as I was hoping they would after seeing the data sheet.

 

HAHAHA Ahriman is almost 100 points cheaper so I'm guessing someone point out that he was insanely over costed.  

 

 

WHAT is a Noxious Blightbringer? 1 model for 73 points :)  Could this be the model with the bells?

 

Yes we need the legion rules and the wargear cost page.  

[DreamIsCollapsing]

I'm sad to see the option to buy CCWs gone.

 

 

Where do you see this ? 

 

WHAT is a Noxious Blightbringer?

 

This. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

I'm sad to see the option to buy CCWs gone.

 

 

Where do you see this ? 

 

 

 

 

 

He's making an assumption based on the Havoc entry, which states that individual Havocs can only trade their bolter for a chainsword, not purchase an extra CCW like all CSMs have been able to do in the past.  It's a solid deduction though I'm hoping he's wrong.

[Khornestar]

It makes sense for havocs to be only able to make that swap, since they're a shooty unit. Less so for basic CSM, but there's no guarantee they can just buy a chainsword.

 

It would be pretty sweet if World Eaters got their 30k ability to swap chainswords to chainaxes for free. :P Doubtful.

[Sception]

Well, supposedly chain swords are +1 attack, while berzerker axes are +1 strength, -1 ap, with zerkers starting at 2A, S4 base and swinging twice per combat phase.  So a zerker with a chain sword would make 6 attacks per combat phase (assuming they survive to swing both times) at S4 Ap0, while his brother with the axe would make 4 attacks at S5 AP-1.

 

I could see an argument for those being equivalent.  Against many targets S5 isn't really any different from S4 (only different for T4-5 and 8-9), and two extra attacks will matters more than -1 ap for lightly armored targets at T values other than 4, 5, 8, or 9.  If they were the same price, I'd probably always go for the axes, as zerkers are already probably going to tear through the light infantry that the swords would be better against, but if I had models armed with a mix of both weapons I the difference isn't so great that I'd feel compelled to re-model them.

 

But that's all going on, to my knowledge, still unconfirmed rumors.

[Iron Skull Mask]

Wow, Obliterators look absolutely terrible And there I thought CSM might get away from the curse of random. I mean, let`s wait how it all plays with the new edition`s rules, but yeah, random strength, DS and damage compared to choosing between different guns seems straight out bad.

[Redtoof]

I don't see oblitorators as bad, just disappointingly different. Their guns are random but they are always going to be high strength with som armour penetration and 2 shots, so they will always be shooting pretty much the same targets anyway. They do one job (kill big stuff) rather than doing whatever you need them to do.

[Sception]

It is much worse, yes.  And they're shorter range, though that's balanced out by the better deep strike rule - but then again that's still putting them closer to the enemy and their melee abilities are much worse now.

 

I'm not sure I'd call them terrible - that depends on how many points extra they have to pay for those guns, and they do at least get to roll for the gun's stats before deciding what target to shoot at, so if you roll garbage for AP you can decide not to shoot at those terminators you were going to gun for, but...  Even looking at the average stats for their weapons now - 6 shots per unit, S8, AP-2, D2, that's not super amazing.  And ran-dumb in general is just sooo much worse and less interesting than their previous 'ever shifting' approach to representing the nature of chaos.

 

I really hope that this is just a simplification for the sake of the temporary rules, and that we see something closer to what they were when we eventually see a full codex.

[bozo69pd]

It is much worse, yes.  And they're shorter range, though that's balanced out by the better deep strike rule - but then again that's still putting them closer to the enemy and their melee abilities are much worse now.

 

I'm not sure I'd call them terrible - that depends on how many points extra they have to pay for those guns, and they do at least get to roll for the gun's stats before deciding what target to shoot at, so if you roll garbage for AP you can decide not to shoot at those terminators you were going to gun for, but...  Even looking at the average stats for their weapons now - 6 shots per unit, S8, AP-2, D2, that's not super amazing.  And ran-dumb in general is just sooo much worse and less interesting than their previous 'ever shifting' approach to representing the nature of chaos.

 

I really hope that this is just a simplification for the sake of the temporary rules, and that we see something closer to what they were when we eventually see a full codex.

In the article it said earlier they cost about the same. I don't mind the flesh metal gun, what I do mind is I lose the flexibility of being able to use assault cannons or plasma cannons or multi meltas. No other way to get some of those guns in our army.

 

Also they used to be great at CC with 2 powerfists each. I don't see that on them anywhere... which makes them melee garbage, and completely terrible if they get tarpitted. On the bright side they lost slow and purposeful it looks like, so they can overwatch.

[Sception]

a lot of trade off.  I'm not thrilled with them, I'm not considering reworking mine the way I'm considering reworking my Abaddon conversion.  I'm not convinced they're terrible, but they don't really feel good, either.  I don't mind their lost melee punch, or the shorter range pushing you to deep strike them closer to your opponents units, but the combination of those two things isn't promising.

 

Again, I really hope they get reworked when we see an eventual codex release.  As a temporary stand in I don't exactly hate these oblits, but I would not be happy with them as the final version of this unit.

[hopkins]

Would think Abaddon would have better than standard deep strike rules

[Sception]

Eh.  IMO the standard rules are good enough now.

[Warsmith Uveron]

Wow, Obliterators look absolutely terrible And there I thought CSM might get away from the curse of random. I mean, let`s wait how it all plays with the new edition`s rules, but yeah, random strength, DS and damage compared to choosing between different guns seems straight out bad.

I kinda like them.

I mean basically we have 6 S7 shots doing D3 damage, and 1-AP sure they are not the anti-tank units of the list But point them at any target less than T6 and they will be taking a pile of wounds.

[Sception]

Meh.  They're expensive, not really good for anti tank, not really enough shots to seriously threaten infantry - melee or otherwise.  Might be a threat to isolated buffing characters hiding behind their front lines, but that's a trick that'll be figured out and deployed against rapidly enough.  The short range forces them to deep strike closer to enemies now, and the loss of their power fists makes them incredibly vulnerable to getting charged as a result.  And for added insult, the loyalist equivalents that I'm still mad exist at all have fully three times the firepower, and then some, which, i mean, was kind of already the case, but still.  The more I look at them, the less I like them, and the more annoyed about it I am.

[Plaguecaster]

At least you can put them in a Land raider with a lord or sorcerer that could get them closer to the the enemy more easier

[DreamIsCollapsing]

At least you can put them in a Land raider with a lord or sorcerer that could get them closer to the the enemy more easier

 

Why would you spend a Land Raider if u can just pop them almost whenever you want at any turn ?

 

 they are not the anti-tank units of the list 

 

I don't understand this statement. 

 

4 Lascanons (from a Land raider, or a full lascanon Havok or whatever) are, basically, the most long range anti-tank firepower a single squad can bring right ? At the very least it's a good gold standard for comparison. 

 

Well, on average, 4 lascanon are 4 shoot of D3 Dmg (so 12 potential wound on average on a single unit) F9 PA-3. F9 mean you wound 2+ on T2 to 4, 3+ on T5 to 8, 4+ on T9 and 5+ on T10 to 17

3 Obliterators are 6 shoot of D2 Dmg (so still 12 potential wound on average) PA-2, F8. F8 means Obliterator wound 2+ on T2 to 4 (like lascanon), 3+ on T5 to 7, 4+ on T8 and 5+ on T9 to 15.

 

TL/DR : Obliterators are clearly more resilient than a 5 men Havok Squad. And maybee as much as a Predator. (2+/5++, cover as Infantery units, 3 wound each)

In offense, they got less range (but the Teleportation rules, wich mean : they won't get shoot at your opponent first tour), AP-2 vs AP-3 (that's kind of a big deal), Dmg2 vs Dmg3 per hit (that's too) but they got the same potential to wound target with Thoughness <8.

 

As far as me know : Standard Dread at T7, most of Tyranids monstruous creatures are T6 or 7. You have to go into Morkonaut, Knight or Leviathan Dread to pass T8. 

 

And i still wait the points for a lascanon. Multimelta nearly double his price between V7 and V8. So i wanna know how much is 4 V8 lascanon (80 points in V7)

[Sception]

 

 

At least you can put them in a Land raider with a lord or sorcerer that could get them closer to the the enemy more easier

 

More easily than just putting them wherever you want on the table at the end of your first shooting phase?  I have a hard time seeing that.

 

I'm not sure what chaos land raiders are supposed to be transporting.  Power armored marines have rhinos, and everything else deep strikes without scatter on your first turn.  You can't even put a character and terminators in it, since the minimum termi squad size already fully fills it.  And I'm guessing those two twin linked lascannons are going to make a mess of its deceptively attractive base points cost.

 

Maybe if you wanted to put a terminator hero with a power armored squad?  Like typhus with regular plague marines?  I don't know.

[Sception]

Shifting gears from stuff I'm disappointed with, I have to say that, the more I think about him, the more I like Abaddon.  I mean, I really do think his sword should be dealing mortal wounds (I would have it be a single attack at -1 to hit dealing d6 mortal wounds, but if it misses deals d6 mortal wounds to abaddon instead (which seems worrysome, but he does re-roll to hit, and you can use a command re-roll on the damage dealt); trading off for increased points cost and possibly decreasing the talon of horus from Sx2 to S+2), but his offense and defense is all pretty impressive, his points aren't that bad imo, and his buffs are respectable.  Rerolls to hit for nearby black legion units seems like it would be pretty brutal on a large deep striking chaos terminator squad unloading overcharged combi plasma, and his own shooting, while not as strong as that, is still significantly improved from before, with -1ap and twice as many shots for twice as much damage.  He's weaker than Guilliman or Magnus or the like, sure, but also hundreds of points cheaper.

 

I'm pretty excited to try him out.