8th Edition Rumours

[Sonoftherubric21]

Chaos is back; and better then ever. 

I want to see the datasheets for Possessed, along with Warp talons.  and forge/maulers. defilers....and basically anything not 1k sons dedicated. 

[Brother Aiwass]

Pssst, possessed stats here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333990-leaked-chaos-space-marine-rules/?p=4762325

[Sonoftherubric21]

*sigh* not particularity impressed by them. Sad day!  They seem better then previously but feel overpriced for 1 wound marines. They need 2 wounds to be worth it at 22 points a model + gear. 

[Raven1]

Yeah not particularly impressed with the possessed or warp talons. If they had demon key word a demon prince is nice with buff but I don't think keywords were mentioned for those fellows.

[Brother Aiwass]

No single keyword mentioned, so we need to wait and see.

[Lord Abaia]

I wonder if there are separate datasheets for CSM and Daemon DPs. I see the unit listed in both the Heretics Astartes points values list and the Chaos Daemons points values list. In the Heretic Astartes list it is called "Daemon Prince" and "Daemon Prince with Wings". In the Daemons list it is called "Daemon Prince of Chaos" and "Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings." Both are the same points.

 

My guess is that they will be identical stats and rules with different faction keywords and maybe psychic disciplines.

[1000 Sons]

Really hope we see some of the forge world book leaks. The FW stuff is gonna make people wet their pants.

[Sception]

Looking at the daemon prince, the points costs on its equipment options are way out of balance.  Average and max damage on the sword and the second claw are identical, the AP is the same, mathematically these are cosmetic options without any meaningful mechanical distinction, and yet the sword costs 42 points, while the second claw costs only 10.  That is hugely out of scale!  How did nobody catch that in testing?

[Raven1]

How did nobody catch that in testing?

Because even though this is a new Games Workshop, it is still Games Workshop.

[adreal]

Has anyone actually seen the basic chaos space marine stats and options??

 

I can guess most of it from the havoc profile, but I'm wondering if I can have bolter and chainsword guys (maybe with a bolt pistol)

[foamy248]

Any sightings of Chosen rules yet?

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Has anyone actually seen the basic chaos space marine stats and options??

 

I can guess most of it from the havoc profile, but I'm wondering if I can have bolter and chainsword guys (maybe with a bolt pistol)

 

Same here, that one thing I'm waiting on..........well as well as been interested see the Legion rules as well :D

 

Really like the Daemon Prince profile!!

[HeresyBeliever]

Looking at the daemon prince, the points costs on its equipment options are way out of balance.  Average and max damage on the sword and the second claw are identical, the AP is the same, mathematically these are cosmetic options without any meaningful mechanical distinction, and yet the sword costs 42 points, while the second claw costs only 10.  That is hugely out of scale!  How did nobody catch that in testing?

But the base cost of 170 points with wings includes the sword. You will only pay extra points for the warp bolter (9) and the axe (45) and maybe a god mark. So a max kitted out is 224 + god which isn't bad

He has more wounds

Hits on a 2+ rater than a 3+ 

Basically has a gun that hits on a 2+  24" assault 2 S4 AP-1 and D2 

 

Not bad really, Personally I will be leaving the axe at home.  

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Couldn't see the bottom of the image I saw. Still, having 9 or 10, the Price can't hide : / At least not without hiding behind a Raider.

 

Edit : Turns out they do have the key word.

 

 

Yes they do and :

 

This represens the difficulty in picking out individuals amidst the maelstrom of battle and applies to all Characters with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or less. 

 

 

 

[foamy248]

Leak of every army book :

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zc2h3cExSekw3YUU

[Guest uk_crow]

Leak of every army book :P :

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zc2h3cExSekw3YUU 

Link above didn't work for me but this one did:

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zdEtrRmEyelg2TkU

 

Enjoy!

[DominikB]

 

Leak of every army book :P :

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zc2h3cExSekw3YUU

Link above didn't work for me but this one did:

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zdEtrRmEyelg2TkU

 

Enjoy!

thanks :)

so a LoC has 16W but a GUO only has 12...

[hopkins]

so a maulerfiend can be marked nurgle and given a legion keyword

yes!! they're going in my new death guard army

but wait, death guard only have rhinos, land raiders, predators, helbrutes and defilers

commence tears of rage

[Dallas Drake]

After a quick look it seems quite average...

 

Sad face.

 

Mutilators are Oblits but in melee. M4" and T4 might hurt these guys too much.

 

Helbrute Plasmacannon can wound it on a roll of a 1.

 

Happy face

 

Spawn look nasty.

 

Maulerfiends with Lasher Tendrils look ace.

 

Underwhelmed but not surprised.

 

Possessed T4 1W 3+ 5++ D3 attacks a -2AP D1. Not setting the world on fire.

[Zodd1888]

There is some wonkiness with these keywords at release for CSM/Daemons.

 

The marks have no function at this point besides flavor since there is no psychic disciplines or rules related to them (except DG to an extent). It's a similar situation to 7th prior to Traitor Legions, nothing specific besides cult troops for most and further unit limitations reducing mono-god list variety.

 

At least there is more variety in selection under each Legion due to removal of formations.

[Zhiv]

<.< Everyone with a nurgle lord on bike... too bad, now he's regular non-nurgle biker.  

 

>.> *sigh* There goes my nurglesque raptors too.

 

*edit* Also as someone noted below,  we can't have Death Guard terminators either.   

 

<.< I guess they'll be a thing after the Nurgle Battle tome comes out

 

Also Sorcerer of Palanquin cannot be Death Guard  while the Lord can.   

 

^^;; why do I think these were written in a hurry... 

[Dallas Drake]

so a maulerfiend can be marked nurgle and given a legion keyword

yes!! they're going in my new death guard army

but wait, death guard only have rhinos, land raiders, predators, helbrutes and defilers

commence tears of rage

Does that mean they can't have the <Death Guard> faction? Because Terminators aren't there either.

[hopkins]

 

 

If a Heretic Astartes unt does not appear in the list to the right, it cannot have the DEATH GUARD Faction keyword

 

 

I imagine a Death Guard codex will be landing shortly, as we know Mortarion, more Plague marines and some type of dude(s) in Terminator armour are incoming

 

These index books are a quick way to reset everything and get everyone playing

[Sception]

 

Looking at the daemon prince, the points costs on its equipment options are way out of balance.  Average and max damage on the sword and the second claw are identical, the AP is the same, mathematically these are cosmetic options without any meaningful mechanical distinction, and yet the sword costs 42 points, while the second claw costs only 10.  That is hugely out of scale!  How did nobody catch that in testing?

But the base cost of 170 points with wings includes the sword. You will only pay extra points for the warp bolter (9) and the axe (45) and maybe a god mark. So a max kitted out is 224 + god which isn't bad

He has more wounds

Hits on a 2+ rater than a 3+ 

Basically has a gun that hits on a 2+  24" assault 2 S4 AP-1 and D2 

 

Not bad really, Personally I will be leaving the axe at home.

 

 

This is wrong.  Unless you're a special character, you pay points for all of your weapons, default or otherwise.  Base cost does not include starting weapons.  We've seen this explicitly in the points for the starter set stuff, and many of the points values in the book make no sense otherwise (forgefiends cheaper than maulerfiends, warp talons cheaper than raptors, etc).  Also several options would effectively be paying extra for downgrades if the default gear was free but options weren't.

 

So no, the sword is not free, it's 42 points on top of the 170 for a winged prince.

 

 

Anyway, my initial thoughts on the heretic astartes index:

 

Thank you!

 

Thoughts:

• DttFE is vs Imperial Units only.  That's fluffy and all, but it kind of sucks that our army-wide rule is so situational.
• Re-roll to charge on Icon of Khorne is very nice for any deep striking melee units that can take it
• Icon of Slaanesh is an improvement to DttFE, making it worthless against non-Imperial units, including the Eldar, who are supposed to be classic enemies of Slaanesh.  Also only does anything in melee making it less useful for noise marines than it should be.
• Icon of Tzeentch seems very unreliable, and heavily encourages numerous small squads if you use it at all, which I'm not really a fan of
• Nurgle and Unaligned Icons seem fine and usable.  I'm a little surprised the unaligned icon is restricted to unaligned units only.
• Only one psychic discipline, for non-legion armies at least, a little disappointing there.
• Doesn't help that the first power is basically a worse version of smite, the power all psykers get and that isn't limited by the rule of one
• That said, warp time and prescience are both really good powers.  Warptime in particular is amazing, but prescience combos well with a number of options (supercharge plasma with no risk of overheat, generate extra attacks from DttFE on a 5+ instead of a 6+, or on a 4+ with icon of slaanesh
• no automatic rules for marks or unaligned legions, they're just keywords.
• A champion with a boltgun or combi bolter may not take any other weapons.  That invalidates my chosen champ's gear.  Fortunately I hadn't gotten around to properly equipping my regular champs.
• Looking ahead, my entire chosen unit is invalidated, because it seems nobody gets to have Bolter/BP/CCW anymore.  I'm rather upset by this.

More thoughts

• Heretic Astartes Demon Princes don't gain the special rules associated with their demonic allegiance the way their Chaos Daemon counterparts do.  This despite the fact that they are in all other ways the same, including points value.  EDIT: CSM princes also have fewer wounds, which actually makes them much better.  Again, for the same points costs.  That there are any differences at all besides keywords feels like a mistake.
• The Heretic Astartes gear selection is really anemic compared to loyalists.  No master crafted weapons.  Do demon weapons, despite loyalists still having rules for their fancy special blades, etc.  Duels with loyalist characters be an uphill climb.
• the special/heavy weapon CSM guy in units of 10+ gets his extra weapon in addition to other gear, rather than replacing anything.  Probably an oversight, but as it is he (and he alone?) may still carry Bolt Pistol, Chain Sword, and a special or heavy weapon.
• I do still very much like terminators, but with the improved but much pricier combi weapons they can get super expensive very quickly, like 50+ points per model.  Even using battle rating or whatever, you get 15 CSMs per 5 terminators.
• Chosen, as previously mentioned, lose their BG/BP/CCW gear loadout.  Very frustrating to me, as I put a lot of effort into WYSIWYG on my converted squad.  Otherwise, they're a lot cheaper, at least, especially melee kits with power weapons.
• Possessed seem a little blah, but better than they were, maybe.
• Heldrake is a lot of points for what feels like not an especially lot of firepower.
• Warp Talons, like possessed, seem kind of blah, but better than they were.  Sad that they can't take icons, they would have really appreciated the Khorne one.
• Chaos Spawn are slower than they were, but it looks like they hit like freight trains, and they still look pretty cheap.  I like them a lot.
• I'm still not sure what the point of the land raider is.  I mean, it's hard to kill, but it's very pricey with its guns, it loses BS with wounds, and its transport capacity still isn't any better than a rhino, excepting for jump/termintor/CoD units, none of which need transporting because deep strike is so good now.  Due to the minimum unit strength change on terminators, it can't even carry a unit of them with a character.
• I like the forge and mauler fiends, though they may be brought down by their poor WS/BS
• HOLY COW the defiler is a freaking beast.  T7, bunches of wounds, crazy high strength in close combat, lots of shooty.  As with the forge and mauler fiends, the WS and BS may disappoint in practice, and it's a tad pricey, but at the moment I'm strongly considering sprucing up my conversion and shifting it from the 'paint later' to the 'paint sooner' pile.

[Sception]

Also, the Heretic Astartes Daemon Prince has two fewer wounds than the Chaos Daemons version, which, counter-intuitively, makes it a lot better, because that puts it under the untargetable character threshhold?