8th Edition Rumours

[Zodd1888]

Regarding Warp talons and lightning claws i will contend that a Warp talon gets on additional attack. The champion can get 2 additional attacks.

 

"Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon"

 

A Warptalon with one attack can attack with one lightning claw that allows an additional attack. A champion can make 2 attacks one with each lightning claw each granting and additional attack.

Exactly my thoughts.

[Sception]

'fighting' is being selected to fight and making all of your attacks in the combat phase.  It refers to the whole thing, it doesn't refer to each individual attack you make.

[Gordon Shumway]

So by that logic, basic raptors get 3 attacks each and champs get 4 since they each have two of the weapon that gives the rule?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So by that logic, basic raptors get 3 attacks each and champs get 4 since they each have two of the weapon that gives the rule?

 

 

Edit:  Errr, wait.  That would work for Warp Talons, yes, Raptors are another story.

[Gordon Shumway]

Sorry, I meant warp talons there.

[Lord Abaia]

The number of attacks you make is not equivalent to the number of times you fight. Compare it to the wording used in the Berzerkers' BftBG rule "This unit can fight twice in each Fight phase, instead of only once." Since Berzerkers have two attacks base this rule would be redundant if the number of times you fought was equivalent to the number of times you attack. Instead the rule makes it so that the Berserker fights once, making two attacks and then he fights again, making two more attacks.

 

The Warp Talon champion only fights once per phase even though he makes two attacks, so when you apply a rule that says "each time the bearer fights it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon" you only add one attack because he only fought once.

 

For the Warp Talon Champ to get four attacks the rule would need to say something like "each time the bearer makes an attack with this weapon, instead make 2 attacks."

[Lord Abaia]

So by that logic, basic warp talons get 3 attacks each and champs get 4 since they each have two of the weapon that gives the rule?

No. If you read the lightning claw entry at the back of the index it gives two point costs (single/pair) and a description saying you make an extra attack if you are equipped with a pair. Since warp talons only take claws as pairs they shorted the description on their​ datasheet. They get +1A for a pair just like anyone else. If they wanted to give us bespoke LCs they would have called them something else like the SW with their wolf claws.

[Sception]

If the wording on the warp talon sheet is different, then it is wrong. Not the only mistake in these indeces.

[Raven1]

You may buy them as a pair but they are equipped with two lightning claws.

If you have multiple attacks and multiple weapons you can divide attacks between equipped weapons. If you get the fight sub phase you get +1 for the weapon. Champion can attack once with each weapon and each weapon grants +1 in the fight subphase.

 

I understand your argument and I understand the discrepancy but RAW, I think I am right. I feel like it will require Facebook request or a tweet to Foley but I'm not going to ask a question about rules that aren't officially out yet.

[Gordon Shumway]

The rule is still wonky though. The exact wording is "Each time the bearer fights, it can make one additional attack with this weapon." So a basic talon fights in the combat phase. He has two of these claws. Each claw has this rule. Therefore he has three attacks. 1 for the basic attack and one for each claw that has this rule. Now it is possible this would fall under a rule that doesn't stack, or that this is a typo from the regular lightning claw rule, but as it is written, it seems like that is how it would work.

[Raven1]

Ok so i finally read the entry of Heretic Astartes wargear and I'm very possibly wrong. The Warp Talon entry differs from the weapon entry. It is different enough it might be Warp Talon specific but doesn't mention its Warp Talon specific.

 

Can someone ask Facebook or tweet Pete Foley?

[Sception]

looks like a mistake.

[DraneceusRex]

People, read your Core rules again!

 

Everyone without a melee weapon on it's datasheet gets a CCW!!!

 

Rg: Melee, type: Melee, S: User, AP:-, D:1

 

How else are you attacking in CC without one?

 

So Bolter, BP, CCW is still the name of the game for most units people are grumbling about. Yes, you're not getting the extra attack from a chainsword, but we're not worse off then we were, and I really wouldn't worry about your WYSWIG on basic CSM with this in mind.

[adreal]

So, chaos really seems to be the close combat meq in 8th

 

Basic marines can all have bolt pistol and chainsword for extra attacks

DttFE is extra attacks on a 6 (against imperium)

Warp time let's you move twice

Prescience is +1 to hit (??)

Zerkers are 17ppm with chain axes

 

This is all pretty cool, most of my guys have bolters though so sad times for me, but if I was to start a new chaos army using a different legion (world eaters or night lords), they can be very very choppy indeed

[Plaguecaster]

Can soul grinders be taken in a chaos marine force???? As they seem pretty brutal and gain actual buffs for being marked/ dedicated to a certain god

[Sersi]

So, chaos really seems to be the close combat meq in 8th

 

Basic marines can all have bolt pistol and chainsword for extra attacks

DttFE is extra attacks on a 6 (against imperium)

Warp time let's you move twice

Prescience is +1 to hit (??)

Zerkers are 17ppm with chain axes

 

This is all pretty cool, most of my guys have bolters though so sad times for me, but if I was to start a new chaos army using a different legion (world eaters or night lords), they can be very very choppy indeed

 

Indeed.   Take Noise Marines come with bolter and bolt pistol, 2 attacks base. Swap the bolter for a chainsword for free for 3 attacks. Take the Icon of Excess for +10 pts if your fighting Imperium and getting +1 attack on hit rolls of 5+. If they die they can make a shooting attack even if locked in melee. They can do some work

[Sersi]

So I can take a Lord and Sorcerer in terminator armor, along with some obliterators and/or combi-weapon terminators and come out of tactical reserves turn 1 to apply pressure to the enemy backfield. Land 9" away,  shoot something and charge in. Next turn the both the Sorcerer and Lord summons daemonette reinforcements. The Slaaneshi CSM characters can summon and they have enough wounds to mitigate the risk of a bad roll. With and average roll of ten the can summon 20 daemonettes each.

 

Is that right? If so we're back to 3.5.

[Raven1]

Can soul grinders be taken in a chaos marine force???? As they seem pretty brutal and gain actual buffs for being marked/ dedicated to a certain god

Yes but would only gain buffs based on <mark of chaos> or demon and not <legion>

[Brother Aiwass]

What do you think about Huron?

[DreamIsCollapsing]

I want Chosen to be good, are they really still crap ?

 

I mean, standard Space marine is 13 points per model, Chosen are 16.

For 3 points you get +1 Attack, +1 Ld (don't forget Ld, it means something now).

 

And now Power sword, or every close combat weapon are so cheap. 1 chosen with Power sword is 20 points.

 5 chosen with 5 powers sword are 100 points (while 5 Space marine without special gear are 65 points).

 

Can't be that bad ? (Yeah i really wanna use my palatine blade models). 

[Lord Abaia]

I think if you give a five man Chosen squad an Icon of Excess and pairs of LCs, and cast Prescience on them you will be generating a hilarious amount of attacks from DttFE. You get 16 attacks hitting on 2+ and trigger DttFE on a 4+ for an average of 8 extra attacks every fight phase for about 20 hits and 10 unsaved wounds vs T4 3+ models on average.

 

Shame it only works vs IoM armies. I might build a unit of these to stick in a glass case labeled "Break in case of Loyalists."

 

Edit: but I'm sure you can do the same with termies to better effect :\

[Brother Aiwass]

My friend's Blood Angels gonna love that combo :lol:

[HeresyBeliever]

 

I mean, you certainly could. They just wouldn't have your non-deathguard legion / renegade chapter keyword, so they won't benefit from certain character buffs (ie, from your lord or dark apostle). And eventually there will probably be benefits to keeping legions or at least detachments to a single subfaction.

Oh I agree, was just checking I hadn't missed anything. Have been wanting to use my GUOs with some marines etc

 

What ever is in your "Chaos" detachment they effect things differently.

 

Typhus will still effect Poxwalkers whether its a DG detachment or not. Even his nurgles gift will effect all models with the DG key word weather its a full DG detachment or not.

 

The only real benefit i see is being able to take plague marines as troops. As and when proper codecs come out then we will find that the stratagems will be effected by the above but currently we don't have different army ones

[Sersi]

Wow, it appears that the Helbrute is no longer a liability to itself! And that power scourge, very nice.

[tbone]

While I'm not thrilled with oblits, they can combo well with Belakor. Rush up first turn and drop them in...reroll 1s with reliable deep strike is a decent way to put some dakka where you need it.

Maulerfiends seem good with Belakor as well