8th Edition Rumours

[ronin_cse]

 

 

 

Am I missing something with the chosen? Why would you ever take them in 8th?

 

I wondered the same thing.........they dont seem very good. 

 

I see one use; Combi-weapon spam, but that jacks their cost to somewhat ridiculous levels.  They just don't seem very useful. 

 

Id think that Plague marines or Zerkers, or Rubricae, or Noise Marines would do those jobs better for the cost. 

 

 

I guess just because you can make them so versatile? You can kit them out with a heavy weapon, some combi-weapons, and give them some power weapons and load them up in a rhino and just put them where you want. I guess you're paying more in cost in this case to be more adaptable since the cult troops seem a little more focused?

 

I dunno I agree and I'll probably only ever run Chosen just because the models from DV look so good.

Really liking the idea of multiple Dark Apostles buffing a Berzerker horde...

 

Why multiple?

 

 

Lets you spread your zerks over the board while filling your HQ slots fairly cheaply. Some clever positioning could see the whole army getting rerolls to hit at once.

 

 

Ohhh ok, sorry was reading that as multiple DAs buffing one squad ;)

[Brother Aiwass]

Soo, what about sorc on bike, plus a unit of 8 bikers who'll be casted warptime on? They're not dedicated CQC but with a couple of meltaguns, a PF and chainswords maybe they can do their job? threat range of 14+14+2D6+1 looks good to me :)

[Sception]

keep in mind that the sorcerer is not the same unit as the bikes.  A sorcerer who casts warptime on their own retinue, whether we're talking bikes or deep striking terminators or whatever, is going to be left rather exposed after that.

 

As for chosen... I'm not super sure?  They can carry power weapons relatively cheaply, which theoretically might let them fight heavily armored infantry better than zerkers, and they can mix in a couple meltaguns, which theoretically could make them a bit more versatile & rounded than a squad of possessed?  Even then, they still seem rather pricey for what they do, especially losing the BG/BP/CCW equipment set, but at least they're not as overpriced as before...

 

Unless we're talking about in comparison to fallen, where, yeah, that simply has to be a mistake.  

[Sandokann]

Please pass by, take a look and critic my list in Chaos lists http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334097-walking-the-dogs-8th-edition-competitive-2000pts-list/

[Gordon Shumway]

IMO helbrutes look to be the best unit in the Codex. I am totally building a list with just helbrutes and sorcs. as the mandatory hqs. Maybe with a few warpsmiths sprinkled in to babysit the back line long range shooters. Oh, and some contemptors/levitations/decimators sprinkled in as well.

[Sception]

What do you like so much about them?

[Gordon Shumway]

They are relatively cheap, have a ton of powerful loadout options, their crazed rule no longer sucks, and they have 8 wounds.

[Dallas Drake]

IMO helbrutes look to be the best unit in the Codex. I am totally building a list with just helbrutes and sorcs. as the mandatory hqs. Maybe with a few warpsmiths sprinkled in to babysit the back line long range shooters. Oh, and some contemptors/levitations/decimators sprinkled in as well.

 

I like them too. I'm going to try them out since I have 5. Move 8" is a nice surprise & I think that bare bones they're decent for just a touch over 70 points. A multi-melta & fist looks good IMO for killing enemy vehicles and monsters. Helbrute Plasma cannon looks okay too.  I fancy 3 ganging up on stuff, maybe throw one with dual H.Flamer fists in there too.

 

Edit: Now I've done some adding up I'm not too meh about Possessed either. A unit of 5 is cheap and while I was holding out for something that hits a little harder they aren't a bad unit (S5 AP-2) isn't on a par with Berzerkers and Warp Talons probably do a better job but I might throw a unit in to try out.

[Gordon Shumway]

Not quite that good, bare bones (stock weapons) they are 139 pts. Still have to pay for weapons, even stock ones. But they certainly look good for their cost/value/versatility.

[Sception]

Yeah, you have to pay for their weapons, all of which are pretty pricey.  I'm not saying they look bad at all, I think they look more playable than they were before - though again many of their better options are pretty short ranged, which makes delivery as much of an issue for them as ever.  But I don't really see them as anything to write home about.

[Dallas Drake]

Oh right, so weapons listed in their profile aren't included in their price? I assumed when it said 'this unit contains one Helbrute equiped with a multi melta and fist' that was the stock for the points. In that case not as good as I thought, not as cheap as I though either... still going to try 3 though.

[Sception]

No, weapon prices are not included in the base cost of the unit.  Hence the points page saying 'without wargear'.  Daemon points generally include wargear, and so do most special characters, but helbrutes, land raiders, daemon princes, lord of skulls and the like have very deceptive points costs, as they'll all be paying dozens or even hundreds of points extra for their weapons loadout.

[Dallas Drake]

Thanks for the catch. I (and many of my friends) would not have caught that. I still think the model should be listed 'without equipment/weapons' to save confusion.

[Blackheart1223]

Yeah, I added up a dual avenger Knight with rocket pod. 559!

[Beachymike123]

Genuine question here. I see a lot of people saying you have to buy the stock weapons.

Where are we getting that from? Example, Land Raider. Afaik, the 239pts means it comes with its standard tl HB and LC sponsons. Am I reading something wrong? I ask as the Dark Eldar entries seem to have the default weapons included in their cost such as Kabalite Warriors with their Splinter Rifles. Only asking for reference. I expect a melta to the rear end for mentioning those sadistic xenos but please, help a frater out

[Blackheart1223]

The point cost sections says "Points per model (does not include wargear)". Additionally, the basic wargear items that most units have, like frag and Krak Grenades have a point cost of "0".

[Sception]

Yes, you are reading this wrong.  The points cost for heretic astartes units are 'without wargear'.  See the top of the table.  As opposed to special characters & chaos daemon stuff, which where the points are noted to include their wargear.  If you need more convincing, look at the relative points cost of raptors and warp talons, which only make any sense at all if you have to pay for the lightning claws separately.

[Blackheart1223]

And the chaos Daemon section specifically states "Points per model (including wargear).

[Raven1]

@Beachymike123 Pete Foley said so

https://mobile.twitter.com/GeekJockPete/status/869606848349057024

[Gordon Shumway]

Anyone else notice the wording for Warp Talon's lightning claws is different than in the general weapons list? Warp Talons seem to get an extra attack when it fights with this weapon. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.

[Zodd1888]

I think it was intentional as it seems to be the only real difference between them and a unit of raptora for the most part.

[Gordon Shumway]

I think it was intentional as it seems to be the only real difference between them and a unit of raptora for the most part.

Yeah, but it is a bit wonky since the basic talons only get one attack anyways. The only one it would benefit is the champ. In a unit of five, the four basic talons get four attacks, plus four for the claws. The champ would get two attacks plus two for the claws. So 12 attacks total.

[Beachymike123]

Thanks guys, it makes a bit more sense then. Kabalite warriors as example get their gear for 0pts as they hurt less against vehicles (but does make me ponder how a poisoned wepon really work I mean I know vision slots blahblah but really?). Plus how vehicles work now I know they should be nastier with split fire and twin linked etc. I think balance will be coming in a bit more from preliminary views.

Thank you again guys. Still can'tforit for the full rules and how they interact.

As an aside, does it not feel like someone just happened to have all thatvtime to take those pics? Seems like geedub is really teasing us in merrily

[Lord Abaia]

 

I think it was intentional as it seems to be the only real difference between them and a unit of raptora for the most part.

Yeah, but it is a bit wonky since the basic talons only get one attack anyways. The only one it would benefit is the champ. In a unit of five, the four basic talons get four attacks, plus four for the claws. The champ would get two attacks plus two for the claws. So 12 attacks total.

Nope. Each time the bearer fights it can make an additional attack, not each time the bearer attacks. You can only​ fight once per fight phase, unless you are a Berserker of course. The champ only gets one extra attack.

[Raven1]

Regarding Warp talons and lightning claws i will contend that a Warp talon gets on additional attack. The champion can get 2 additional attacks.

 

"Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon"

 

A Warptalon with one attack can attack with one lightning claw that allows an additional attack. A champion can make 2 attacks one with each lightning claw each granting and additional attack.

 

I would also contend raptors might be a better choice you are sacrificing AP for shooting ability and points for charge after deepstrike without overwatch.