HH to remain using 7th ed rules

[Gorgoff]

And I think it has been proven just now in this topic that it's time to move on to 8th.

Then I didn't get the memo. :D

What have been proven is that some players don't like the 7th edition and that's it.

The reasons for that are manifold.

While some players simply never understood it and struggled with to many rules other are fascinated by the opportunity to play a new Version while there players who only or most of the time anyway play against 40k armies and are forced to play in the new edition.

 

But not all players hate the 7th and not all are happy about the changes.

I for instance really like the actual Edition and don't need a new one because I enjoy a game with many rules with a delicate micromanagement. It never occurred to me that it is complicated because, well, it isn't :) and I really see it that way that GW wants to get new customers. A new generation of players. And those people are not capable of or not willing to learn several rules just to play a game of little dolls. That is the generation of young lads which grew up whith smartphones on their hands whith everything chewep up for them in advance so that everything they want is easy to get and easy to understand.

You saw that in roleplaying games, in Computer games, in tv shows and in every possible point in our lives.

And Now we get a new edition which is just that: simple.

Don't get me wrong.

I really really like lots of what we have seen from the 8th and I am sure that that will be a very pleasent game to play.

But am I sold on that I have to play with it?

That it is so much better than the 7th that there is no other logical option as to switch?

No, not at all.

Until now there where some things I really liked and some things I didn't like at all about it and only testing the full new rules + full rules for my HH army can show me if I gonna switch.

[MysticTemplar]

Could please some intelligent dude mathhammer if 4 twin linked or 8 normal shots are better?

 

@skimaskMohawk: I second that. I guess because it needs thinking and having a plan. Micromanagement is key to win but not easy to master, hence so "many" people (at least here) are happy that GW got rid of that.

 

For a non-Gets Hot weapon having twice as many shots is always better - you have the same odds of rolling no hits (all 8 dice in either case coming up failures) but have twice as much damage potential.

Using a single shot weapon as an example because there's less outcomes so it should be clearer:

 

BS4 Twin-Linked Lascannon: Misses (1/3 * 1/3) = 1/9 of the time.  8/9 of the time, a single hit is caused.

BS4 Two Shot Lascannon: Completely misses (1/3*1/3) = 1/9 of the time.  Hits twice (2/3*2/3) = 4/9 of the time.  Hits once the remaining 4/9 of the time.

 

Gets Hot increases the Risk/Reward factor - increased damage potential in exchange for increased self-harm potential.

 

(Blast weapons in 7th are better with more shots simply because you get to keep both the original result *and* the reroll, rather than having to decide whether or not to reroll first result and being stuck with the 2nd.  Multiple barrage changes this a bit, because the initial landing point is way more important, but it doesn't really matter in the context of 8th.)

[AceofAllTradez]

And I think it has been proven just now in this topic that it's time to move on to 8th.

Until forgeworld gives us an official announcement I'm still clinging to the hope that Horus Heresy will remain in 7th edition

[Dreagher]

"Games set during The Horus Heresy using Forge World's Battles in the Age of Darkness expansion will continue to use the rules set out in the current edition of Warhammer 40,000." Copied directly from the forgeworld shop, so it looks quite clear in that regard.

[MysticTemplar]

"Games set during The Horus Heresy using Forge World's Battles in the Age of Darkness expansion will continue to use the rules set out in the current edition of Warhammer 40,000." Copied directly from the forgeworld shop, so it looks quite clear in that regard.

 

The 8th FAQ says

 

"**A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games."

 

Which combined with reports from some of the events (which are in the relevant event threads) that Horus Heresy will follow the main rules suggests that this isn't something that will remain the case for ever, thankfully.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Twelve pages of back and forth and back and forth ...

 

At the moment AoD games are still using 7th ed. rules.

 

Until FW makes the switch and tells us otherwise.

 

Pretty simple.

 

And even then, everybody's free to decide if they want to play with the new rules, or would like to keep playing with 7th ed. rules with their friends / gaming group.

[Ishagu]

That's correct, but unfortunately there's almost no chance I'll be playing any HH until the switch is made :-(

[Charlo]

Everything will be cleared up in just over two weeks at Warhammer Fest, so not too long to know our fate :D

[depthcharge12]

GW main said that they are looking at 2000 point games taking 2 hours now.

 

 

Whiiiiiiccccchhhh means that 30k games are going to be 4000 points on the regular :D

[Gorgoff]

That's correct, but unfortunately there's almost no chance I'll be playing any HH until the switch is made :-(

Damn Ish, every time you speak of your gaming group I feel sorry for you.

It is so much fun to play AoD games against 30k enthusiasts like.... me ;)

Sorry that you only have typical 40k gamers to play against.

  

GW main said that they are looking at 2000 point games taking 2 hours now.

Whiiiiiiccccchhhh means that 30k games are going to be 4000 points on the regular :D

Exakt my thinking.

When we don't do much trashtalking and stalling a 2k HH game is easily played in 2 hours.

[depthcharge12]

But but muh trash talking :(

[Gorgoff]

But but muh trash talking :(

We never skip the Trashtalk part.

That's the whole point about playing.

[depthcharge12]

 

But but muh trash talking :(

We never skip the Trashtalk part.

That's the whole point about playing.

With knowledgeable players I think I've got 2500-3000 point games down to 3-3 1/2 hours. I feel like games go shorter the more points you have due to the increase in D weapons and pie plates. At least until the apoc level that is.

[Galron]

Everyone complains about 2nd taking too long. We had it down to 1 hour per 1k points a side. Once you learn the rules, the game flows. We had our relevant armies rules memorized and didn't have to look things up every round. I haven't played 7th as much since I usually only get once a month games and both of us vary our armies quite a bit but we still have no problems with 3.5k per side games in 4 hours if not faster. I would expect 8th will be the same once we have a handle on the rules. While I like 7th, we are how many years into it and we still find new rules over previous editions we haven't been playing right. Shelving my 30k armies for the time being until some updates come out, working on my red scorps and new Ork armies.  

[civsmitty]

Everyone loves trash talking until someone tells someone else they slept with the other person's wife and sister at the same time.

 

TL;DR I'm no longer welcome at the FLGS or family functions.

[Withershadow]

Everyone loves trash talking until someone tells someone else they slept with the other person's wife and sister at the same time.

 It's all fun and games until someone loses their anal beads.

 

Anyway, I expect this conversion to take a long time, but it's a fun exercise to speculate how things will change.  Will a quad mortar have 2d6 attacks?  How will breacher armor work?  How many points are combi-weapon veterans going to cost?  How will all those crappy specialist units change?

[depthcharge12]

I'm hoping team chainaxes gets the win here. -1 or -2 to armor saves would put me in a happy place. Since power axes are S+1 AP-2 would that make chainaxes S+1 AP-1?

[Yodhrin]

Twelve pages of back and forth and back and forth ...

 

At the moment AoD games are still using 7th ed. rules.

 

Until FW makes the switch and tells us otherwise.

 

Pretty simple.

 

And even then, everybody's free to decide if they want to play with the new rules, or would like to keep playing with 7th ed. rules with their friends / gaming group.

 

While that's technically true because FW won't be sending the Hobby Police round to take back your existing rulebooks, sticking with 7th means you'll never get the full 30K experience. 7th > 8th is not even remotely equivalent to 6th > 7th, 8th is pretty much a different game entirely despite them continuing to use some names & terminology from the 3rd-to-7th era so you won't be able to port new content back into 7th without substantial editing and playtesting, assuming you have a group who'll accept fanrules at all; letting the setting get to ~80% complete and then switching the rules engine to something radically different is an even less kosher switcheroo than Black Library deciding to format-switch the HH novel series and force MMPB collectors to the back of the queue with minimum 9 months of spoiler-avoidance to suffer through.

 

Ideally FW should put a PDF with stripped-down 7th Ed rules up on their site and continue using 7th until the HH series is finished, or at the very least commit to releasing 7th Ed rules alongside 8th Ed, it'll be real garbage of them to leave folk who don't want to play Age of Da Emprah without rules for some of the Legions nor for half the Mechanicum, the Dark Mechanicum, or anything else new that comes up during the push to Terra.

 

And for the record, I say that as someone who, despite some reservations here & there and the healthy cycnicism of a long-term GW fan, is quite liking the sound of 8th so far.

[Charlo]

Losing templates is going to make me rather happy for HH. No longer punished for blob play, the Death Guard and Assault Marine BA will shine.

[Runefyre]

Losing templates is going to make me rather happy for HH. No longer punished for blob play, the Death Guard and Assault Marine BA will shine.

My future Grey Slayer heavy SW army will be thankful as well!

 

I wonder how Deathsworn's neat wulfen-lite ability will work in 8th now that initiative is gone. Maybe it will only kick in if the Deathsworn are charged, then the rule could pretty much stay the same?

 

Also I'm quite partial to breachers, I really want them to get a significant boost in survivability, maybe +1 Armor save if in base contact sorta like Bullgryns.

[AceofAllTradez]

 

Twelve pages of back and forth and back and forth ...

 

At the moment AoD games are still using 7th ed. rules.

 

Until FW makes the switch and tells us otherwise.

 

Pretty simple.

 

And even then, everybody's free to decide if they want to play with the new rules, or would like to keep playing with 7th ed. rules with their friends / gaming group.

 

While that's technically true because FW won't be sending the Hobby Police round to take back your existing rulebooks, sticking with 7th means you'll never get the full 30K experience. 7th > 8th is not even remotely equivalent to 6th > 7th, 8th is pretty much a different game entirely despite them continuing to use some names & terminology from the 3rd-to-7th era so you won't be able to port new content back into 7th without substantial editing and playtesting, assuming you have a group who'll accept fanrules at all; letting the setting get to ~80% complete and then switching the rules engine to something radically different is an even less kosher switcheroo than Black Library deciding to format-switch the HH novel series and force MMPB collectors to the back of the queue with minimum 9 months of spoiler-avoidance to suffer through.

 

Ideally FW should put a PDF with stripped-down 7th Ed rules up on their site and continue using 7th until the HH series is finished, or at the very least commit to releasing 7th Ed rules alongside 8th Ed, it'll be real garbage of them to leave folk who don't want to play Age of Da Emprah without rules for some of the Legions nor for half the Mechanicum, the Dark Mechanicum, or anything else new that comes up during the push to Terra.

 

And for the record, I say that as someone who, despite some reservations here & there and the healthy cycnicism of a long-term GW fan, is quite liking the sound of 8th so far.

 

Very well said. Completely agree. I actually happen to find 8th edition quite interesting for 40k and think it could turn out to be a fun edition but not for 30k. My biggest problem is the unreleased legion characters because my group would most certainly continue to play 7th edition, but it wouldn't be the same without the remaining 3 plus the emperor himself.

[Gorgoff]

Losing templates is going to make me rather happy for HH. No longer punished for blob play, the Death Guard and Assault Marine BA will shine.

Regiment bases, Charlo. ;)

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Losing templates is going to make me rather happy for HH. No longer punished for blob play, the Death Guard and Assault Marine BA will shine.

My future Grey Slayer heavy SW army will be thankful as well!

 

I wonder how Deathsworn's neat wulfen-lite ability will work in 8th now that initiative is gone. Maybe it will only kick in if the Deathsworn are charged, then the rule could pretty much stay the same?

 

Also I'm quite partial to breachers, I really want them to get a significant boost in survivability, maybe +1 Armor save if in base contact sorta like Bullgryns.

 

 

AoS has a mechanic like that, not sure if its exclusive to the khorne guys, but thats where I remember it the best from

 

 

No Respite: If a model from this unit is slain in the combat phase, you can make a pile in move and then attack with the model before you remove it.

[Charlo]

That's even stronger. You could attack and then get more as you died. Ouchies.

[Plaguecaster]

The new character rules should be interesting to get used to though for the Primarchs I think it kinda suits just look at Angron fluffwise, a retinue only slows them down if anything they are only there to look pretty whilst the Primarch kills stuff, model placement will be a massive factor since everyone is forced to run solo though it could be quite nice when you take in to account command traits, area buffs etc that should benefit everyone without being a pain like than that Death Star unit with a Primarch or tribune.