HeritorA Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 After reading TMoM, I'm more than impatient to get my hands on The Black Legion. I want to know why Drach'nyen reacts the way it does to Abaddon and Abaddon only. I want to know who is that mysterious golden skinned guide that leads Abaddon and his men to Uralan. Is that another manifestation of the Astronomican, some avatar of Drach'nyen itself, an emissary of the gods or the husk of a long dead custodian ? I think it is all of that combined - but with A D-B being A D-B (hinting more than answering) it will be the case for sure :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4578762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster The Lobster Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 After reading TMoM, I'm more than impatient to get my hands on The Black Legion. I want to know why Drach'nyen reacts the way it does to Abaddon and Abaddon only. I want to know who is that mysterious golden skinned guide that leads Abaddon and his men to Uralan. Is that another manifestation of the Astronomican, some avatar of Drach'nyen itself, an emissary of the gods or the husk of a long dead custodian ? I think it is all of that combined - but with A D-B being A D-B (hinting more than answering) it will be the case for sure :) I'm interested in how Ra have affected Drach'nyen, or vice versa. Can Abbaddon use the blade to strike down the Emperor when it has been affected by a creature who's prime motive is his loyalty to the Emperor? Not a question that we will likely know the answer of, but it's an interesting thought Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4578825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I had that same line of thought regarding Ra. Of course we don't yet have an estimation of how much "time" has passed since the Emperor bound the daemon in his flesh but whilst I can't see Ra doing much to Drach'nyen, aside from driving it further into it's own primal urges, on account of the action the daemon was born from being such a primal and resonating concept, even the Emperor couldn't kill it, I could certainly see him being shaped by it. Whether that will take the form of true possession or him being imbued with the power of both the big E and Drach we shall see. The one scene I'm really keen to get stuck into is when Abaddon actually kills (or doesn't kill) Ra and takes the sword, whether it actually is a sword and if it forms from his body as it did from the Emperor's Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4578853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I had that same line of thought regarding Ra. Of course we don't yet have an estimation of how much "time" has passed since the Emperor bound the daemon in his flesh but whilst I can't see Ra doing much to Drach'nyen, aside from driving it further into it's own primal urges, on account of the action the daemon was born from being such a primal and resonating concept, even the Emperor couldn't kill it, I could certainly see him being shaped by it. Whether that will take the form of true possession or him being imbued with the power of both the big E and Drach we shall see. The one scene I'm really keen to get stuck into is when Abaddon actually kills (or doesn't kill) Ra and takes the sword, whether it actually is a sword and if it forms from his body as it did from the Emperor's It wasn't formed from the Emperor's body - you misunderstood the scene. It was a banishment ritual - Empra embedded End of Empires into the sword - not created it from his body. And the point Empra is not able to 'kill it' - cause it's too powerful get a lot of us confused - because in that case: how he was able to ANNIHILATE HORUS SOUL FROM THE UNIVERSE, THEN HORUS WAS SUPPORTED BY 4 Gods of Chaos! You want to tell me that some Higher Daemon is more powerful than a demigod supported by Chaos Undivided???? For real? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4578953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 Horus wasn't supported by anyone when the Emperor killed him. Remember, the gods leave him. Sacrificed king and all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster The Lobster Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 In addition I don´t think Horus was the strongest as the scion of chaos. He used a force that he didn´t have any understanding of, and the heresy from his point of view was just that, from his point of view, not once do I seriously think that he stopped to think what those who followed him wanted with the heresy. For him they were just pieces to get back at a father who used him. In contrast when he was the loyal son, people might have hated him, like some most definitely hate the Emperor, or any other warlord. But he manged to unite them with a common goal, and before his fall, I at least get the feeling that he fought for mankind, though with a selfish ember, of wanting to be recognized for an eternity. Then there is also the whole deal with the duel with Sanguinius, that happens just before. I strongly believe that the wound that the Blood angels primarch manage to inflict, isn´t a physical one, rather his death that cause Horus to, perhaps unconsciously see what he has become. Slaying his closest brother are a huge thing, and I think it´s that mental whole in Horus defense that the emperor use to gain the upper hand. So the Emperor isn´t weak because he can´t defeat ´The first Murder`. Nor is Horus weak for ultimately losing to the Emperor. Its just different circumstances with diffrent conditions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I had that same line of thought regarding Ra. Of course we don't yet have an estimation of how much "time" has passed since the Emperor bound the daemon in his flesh but whilst I can't see Ra doing much to Drach'nyen, aside from driving it further into it's own primal urges, on account of the action the daemon was born from being such a primal and resonating concept, even the Emperor couldn't kill it, I could certainly see him being shaped by it. Whether that will take the form of true possession or him being imbued with the power of both the big E and Drach we shall see. The one scene I'm really keen to get stuck into is when Abaddon actually kills (or doesn't kill) Ra and takes the sword, whether it actually is a sword and if it forms from his body as it did from the Emperor's It wasn't formed from the Emperor's body - you misunderstood the scene. It was a banishment ritual - Empra embedded End of Empires into the sword - not created it from his body. And the point Empra is not able to 'kill it' - cause it's too powerful get a lot of us confused - because in that case: how he was able to ANNIHILATE HORUS SOUL FROM THE UNIVERSE, THEN HORUS WAS SUPPORTED BY 4 Gods of Chaos! You want to tell me that some Higher Daemon is more powerful than a demigod supported by Chaos Undivided???? For real? Actually I didn't misunderstand the scene - the sword IS the daemon given form. Initially, it impales the Emperor on it's claw - "Five talons dripping red" or whatever the direct quote is - is pretty conclusive. There's no wriggle room to interpret. Then "poooof" the claws are gone and the sword is impaling the Emperor's body. Then seconds later the Emperor pulls it out and impales Ra with it. And right then he realises that the daemon is in his flesh. So yeah that's about as straight forward a step by step guide as can be. Precious little to get confused about. Ironically you're confusing banishment with binding. Plus ADB devotes enough page time to highlighting just overwhelmingly powerful this daemon is. At the moment of it's "birth" it reaches through the Warp and touches every human that has, or will, ever exist. Every. Single. Human. Across space and time. That is power of magnitude great enough to be a threat to the Emperor. So yeah. For real. Horus wasn't supported by anyone when the Emperor killed him. Remember, the gods leave him. Sacrificed king and all. This. There's a good reason for the "Horus was weak, Horus was a fool" quote Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 That's why ADBs Abaddon is so damn cool. He could've easily at any point become as powerful as Horus by throwing in with the four powers and instead he decided to do the same thing with steel and human determination. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Definitely a placeholder, guys and gals. I saw Raye Harrison at Black Library Live - she's the cover director these days (and a great writer in her own right, by the by) - and although I forgot to ask about the BL cover, I'd already passed on my request to editorial a while back, so I reckon it's all good. Oh good! Abbadon looks rather malnourished in that picture. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Not to mention that he looks daemonic. He's not supposed to be possessed or imbued with Chaotic powers is he? So he should look relatively normal for a traitor Astartes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster The Lobster Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Not to mention that he looks daemonic. He's not supposed to be possessed or imbued with Chaotic powers is he? So he should look relatively normal for a traitor Astartes? Since he has the marks of all the Chaos gods, I would be inclined to believe that he is imbued with the warp. He has just not taken the leap towards deamonhood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Not to mention that he looks daemonic. He's not supposed to be possessed or imbued with Chaotic powers is he? So he should look relatively normal for a traitor Astartes? Since he has the marks of all the Chaos gods, I would be inclined to believe that he is imbued with the warp. He has just not taken the leap towards deamonhood.Just another pawn. And if ya think the Chaos Gods are going to let Abby win ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I don't think it's up to Chaos is Abaddon wins or loses, because Chaos is not a singular entity with a defined goal. It's countless consciousnesses filtered through the twisted lens of humanity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Chaos just wants eternal war. They could have got that in a multitude of ways. Helping the Imperium win ... and then causing the HH. Causing the HH to happen as it currently does. Or helping Abbadon win as even if he does the Imperium would end up having a civil war. Even with a win the very nature of chaos would mean constant chaos as there could be no order or any form of government. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4579571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Horus wasn't supported by anyone when the Emperor killed him. Remember, the gods leave him. Sacrificed king and all. You definitely missed the point - where 4 gods of chaos left Horus support only after EMPEROR overhelmed him and wounded. That's made in stone for lore for almost 30 years now, lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4580150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 No I believe the original lore stated The Emperor was critically injured on the floor. Horus was standing there gloating and when the Chaos Gods felt the buildup of The Emperors psychic lance they all abandoned Horus for fear that his Soul-Shot would hurt them as well. Whether it would or wouldn't have is a moot point. It's what happened. Until it gets rewritten of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4580159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 No I believe the original lore stated The Emperor was critically injured on the floor. Horus was standing there gloating and when the Chaos Gods felt the buildup of The Emperors psychic lance they all abandoned Horus for fear that his Soul-Shot would hurt them as well. Whether it would or wouldn't have is a moot point. It's what happened. Until it gets rewritten of course. 'Until it gets rewritten of course' - true. They could surprise us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4580228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Man, I'm definitely going to buy The Black Legion, because ADB's writing is just that good, but I suspect I'll be gritting my teeth to an unhealthy degree most of the book. After reading Master of Mankind, after seeing the Emperor's hopes and dreams for the future of humanity, my contempt for the fools of the Nine Legions has, if anything, increased. Which I did not think was possible at this point. It feels so damn weird reading a good book where you're convinced that the galaxy would become a better place if all the protagonists died in a nuclear explosion. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4588276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Man, I'm definitely going to buy The Black Legion, because ADB's writing is just that good, but I suspect I'll be gritting my teeth to an unhealthy degree most of the book. After reading Master of Mankind, after seeing the Emperor's hopes and dreams for the future of humanity, my contempt for the fools of the Nine Legions has, if anything, increased. Which I did not think was possible at this point. It feels so damn weird reading a good book where you're convinced that the galaxy would become a better place if all the protagonists died in a nuclear explosion. Anyway - as with ToH and newly arrived Fabius it's proved that stories about Bad guys are MUCH better than about the good ones. And that doesn't depend only on authors - 'good' guys live in 'corrupted' imperium, bad guys are 'almost' free etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4590384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ciaphas Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Any idea when The Black Legion will be coming out? I loved and adored the limited edition Talon of Horus novel, and I will most certainly be getting the Black Legion as well. Regards, Master Ciaphas Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4591322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 ADB said that it will be released (or finished? Can't remember right now) in August 2017. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4591353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 ADB said that it will be released (or finished? Can't remember right now) in August 2017. Pretty much finished already, hopefully out in August. Had cover talks this week. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4591366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Man, I'm definitely going to buy The Black Legion, because ADB's writing is just that good, but I suspect I'll be gritting my teeth to an unhealthy degree most of the book. After reading Master of Mankind, after seeing the Emperor's hopes and dreams for the future of humanity, my contempt for the fools of the Nine Legions has, if anything, increased. Which I did not think was possible at this point. It feels so damn weird reading a good book where you're convinced that the galaxy would become a better place if all the protagonists died in a nuclear explosion. There's a certain balance no human will ever get right, but is always fun to try: 1. You have to present the Chaos Marines (and especially the Black Legion) as credible, interesting threats, especially with the Black Legion/Abaddon's reputation over the last decade+. So by its very aim, the series is about highlighting them in an accurate and positive light in terms of competency and interesting events. Plus, almost all stories/books/movies/etc. are about the protagonists winning or achieving something, though of course exceptions exist. If you focus on their losses, as cool as that is, you're adding to years and years of dedicated memes (and, honestly, a fair few recent codex mentions) that have... well, done nothing but focus on their losses or very minor/unconvincing victories. You can't just add to that. 2. But on the other hand, it's more interesting (to me personally, anyway) to focus on the divisions of a faction than their plain military triumphs. I feel like I set them up nicely in The Talon of Horus, but life isn't peachy for Chaos Marines, and things like them not trusting one another, or officers failing Abaddon, or stuff like Khayon thinking Drach'nyen is full of bantha poodoo and not trusting the Chaos Gods' intentions for Abaddon, and so on - that's more interesting to me than any curbstomping victory as the series goes on. A delicate balance, but I hope to hit it as well as I can. They're not mutually exclusive, natch, but there's the potential for huge overlap in terms of Chaos falling in itself versus Chaos comedically failing and/or tripping itself up. Especially given how things are interpreted by some folks, no matter who wrote it or what it actually says. Events will be distilled down for memes, and the memes will always be the loudest public "truth". It's a weird time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4591370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Does that mean we'll be seeing scenes where Drach'nyen actually communicates? Prior to MoM I thought it was just a sword with a Daemon locked inside it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4591376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 ADB said that it will be released (or finished? Can't remember right now) in August 2017. Pretty much finished already, hopefully out in August. Had cover talks this week. Close enough. :) How is this occurring? Do you discuss what you (BL and you as the author) would like to see and then get some artists done something? Or do they get an overview of the book, create some covers and then you're discussing them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/14/#findComment-4591377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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