A D-B Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Does that mean we'll be seeing scenes where Drach'nyen actually communicates? Prior to MoM I thought it was just a sword with a Daemon locked inside it. Not in Book 2, naw. The Black Legion is largely about the newborn Black Legion's rise; preparing to break out of the Eye; Khayon worrying about the pressure of the warp on Abaddon's soul; and gearing up for the huge fight with the Templars that's waiting for them as they leave. Drach'nyen will be Book 3. There's just so freaking much to write about, and at this point I'm less concerned with explaining the setting (a futile attempt even before TToH and TMoM) and more concerned with focusing on personal stories within the setting, like with Soul Hunter or Helsreach, f'rex. I don't think Drach'nyen will communicate in terms that, say, Gyre or the Ragged Knight did. The sword is wedded to Abaddon, not Khayon; Khayon loathes it and may even fear it, depending on how you interpret his words. The classic lore is that it's only even a sword because Abaddon wills it to be one, which I think is a delicious angle. There won't be conversations over games of chess with it, no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 ADB said that it will be released (or finished? Can't remember right now) in August 2017.Pretty much finished already, hopefully out in August. Had cover talks this week. Close enough. How is this occurring? Do you discuss what you (BL and you as the author) would like to see and then get some artists done something? Or do they get an overview of the book, create some covers and then you're discussing them? Sometimes (Betrayer, Armageddon, Aurelian, The First Heretic) they ask what I want and I'll do a multi-page reply with themes and character descriptions. This can be ignored or adhered to as the artist sees fit. Sometimes (The Talon of Horus) they ask what you want but it ultimately has to be a certain cover or character because of the IP focus. "But Abaddon isn't wearing this armour yet in the series." "Dude, it's a series about the Black Legion. It is what it is." "Okay, cool." Sometimes (Butcher's Nails, Prince of Crows) they just go with whatever and you don't get to see it until it's done. Sometimes (The Black Legion, the Night Lords Trilogy, The Master of Mankind) they'll ask, but you implicitly trust the artist and art director no matter what, so you can do a two-page theme document, but you know you'll be happy with whatever. I try to approach every cover discussion with the following uppermost in mind: It's cool to be asked at all, when I know plenty of authors in any genre aren't, but artists and art directors know the business of making book covers better than I do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I like the idea that Khayon wouldn't even need to speak to the thing to hate it, it speaks it's words in shapes and feelings, in impulses and actions. It might only 'talk' to Abaddon but to someone with another sight like Khayon he might be able to decipher a 'rough' idea of it's personality for the few moments he could stand to be around it without his eyes bleeding. They might even have a rivalry as complex as any in the council of Sicarius or the Ezekylon, it just doesn't manifest in the express terms of assassins at their necks with poison blades or raising upheavals in the legion to push each other out of power. Drach'nyen might influencing without ever unsheathing, it is after all Chaos incarnate. Pushing people, not just Abaddon himself, over thresholds. I view it after all as a sort of Pandora's box: It is the ultimate manifestation of the gods support behind him, granted after an odyssey across the stars and with tremendous power, yet it's also a point of no return. Claiming it's power means being tainted by Chaos in some capacity and willingly wielding it moreso. If there was ever a time, ever a chance, to try and undo the things he's done and wash Chaos from his bloodstained hands it will become the past and forgotten the moment he uses that blade. I think that, especially for the less Chaos inclined marines in the Black Legion, that's more then reason enough to be uneasy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Oh man Already had a scene in mind for them: "Abaddon! I demand you to stop killing with your Emperor-cursed Talon! Draw me! Oh... Oh yes! Taste my sting you bloody, loyalist- WHAT? I just scratched him!? You idiot! There was a whole in his defense! Are you blind?!? I knew that I should've staid with Ra! You better keep an eye on your arms..." ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 So Abby won't have the Daemon sword in book 2? Interesting. This should make the duel with Siggy a whole different thing. Hopefully Templars will have a influx of new neophytes after the novel. Despite being the antagonists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 With how powerful Drach sounds...it doesn't sound like any loyalist marine would be able to put up a solid fight against Abbie if he's wielding the First Murder as a weapon Just semi-Chaos Abaddon with the Talon vs. Old Man Sig sounds like an interesting clash Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Will he be using the talon tho? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 As far as I've understand Abaddon, he would not use the Talon out of honoring Sigi and giving him a fair fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Siggy is going to be old though, wasn't it a thousand? Now not that could be a problem for the original legionaries because we never knew how old they could get, and Dante is 1100 I'd still like to think age can take its toll on speed a bit, and that abby has the upper hand because he's still in essence a regular kind of age for a legionary space marine. So in my head this fight isn't going to be the one people expect. I'm not expecting it to be one sided either, but it's also not going to be the sevatar sigismund unending bout Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Siggy will duel Abby with his walking aid :D "Get off my lawn Abbadon!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 "Your powers are weak old man" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 ADB said that it will be released (or finished? Can't remember right now) in August 2017. Pretty much finished already, hopefully out in August. Had cover talks this week. YESSSSSS! Cover should be epic - A D-B a suggestion. Abbadon on some Throne as a king Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 So Abby won't have the Daemon sword in book 2? Interesting. This should make the duel with Siggy a whole different thing. Hopefully Templars will have a influx of new neophytes after the novel. Despite being the antagonists. Something tells me they will need it "Your powers are weak old man" Young and naive as a puppy you are. The force is not with ya Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Does that mean we'll be seeing scenes where Drach'nyen actually communicates? Prior to MoM I thought it was just a sword with a Daemon locked inside it. Not in Book 2, naw. The Black Legion is largely about the newborn Black Legion's rise; preparing to break out of the Eye; Khayon worrying about the pressure of the warp on Abaddon's soul; and gearing up for the huge fight with the Templars that's waiting for them as they leave. Drach'nyen will be Book 3. There's just so freaking much to write about, and at this point I'm less concerned with explaining the setting (a futile attempt even before TToH and TMoM) and more concerned with focusing on personal stories within the setting, like with Soul Hunter or Helsreach, f'rex. I don't think Drach'nyen will communicate in terms that, say, Gyre or the Ragged Knight did. The sword is wedded to Abaddon, not Khayon; Khayon loathes it and may even fear it, depending on how you interpret his words. The classic lore is that it's only even a sword because Abaddon wills it to be one, which I think is a delicious angle. There won't be conversations over games of chess with it, no. Delicious as it may be I would imagine that it's sword shaped because The Emperor made it so. I'm not convinced that Abaddon should wield such power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I hate that we have to wait until August, but it's gonna be so damn cool when it gets here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I'm not convinced that Abaddon should wield such power. Does he even wield it? That power's ultimate fate, I mean. Objectively is Drach'nyen all that it says it is, and that Ra thinks it is? What we objectively know is pretty much up for grabs at this point. Even in TMoM: The Emperor says "Maybe, maybe not" re: "I'm going to kill you, Emps" and then flings it aside. And since we know that Abaddon won't let Chaos steal his victory (he's fighting for the Legions, not the gods), and Chaos won't let Abaddon win unless he swears to a patron god (when the entire point of his arc is not doing that), how exactly is Drach'nyen going to do what it's convinced it's fated to do? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Valrak Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 We all know the duel between is happening between Siggy and Abby - now for a question. Would Sigismund win in his prime? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Sigismund was undefeated in his prime, so maybe. But the Abaddon vs. Sigismund fight night isn't two Heresy beasts throwing down, it's an allegory for the Great Crusade as a whole and the final end of the enlightenment and martial values of the Great Crusade. As cool as Abaddon vs. Sigismund would've been during the Siege, it's cooler that they never fought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Hey ADB quick off topic, you ever gonna write some AoS? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 If I'm not mistaken, the duel would happen in book 3. Unless "gearing up for the huge fight with the Templars that's waiting for them as they leave" means killing Sigismund, we're likely to get it in Chaos Ascendant. That makes sense. Pretty hard to fill one book with such things as the meteoric rise of the Black Legion in the Eye, the rallying of the warbands, the battles to win the respect of the Primarchs and the Legions, the preparations for the first Black Crusade, the actual first Black Crusade, Ularan and Drach'nyen. Looking forward to it. EDIT : Also looking forward to what you will come up with for the Bringers of Despair. What's their actual name in the Black Legion, because Bringers of Despair doesn't really do it for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Sigismund was undefeated in his prime, so maybe. But the Abaddon vs. Sigismund fight night isn't two Heresy beasts throwing down, it's an allegory for the Great Crusade as a whole and the final end of the enlightenment and martial values of the Great Crusade. As cool as Abaddon vs. Sigismund would've been during the Siege, it's cooler that they never fought. True, Sigismund death is the end of a legend and a deathknell of an Old Age. Hey ADB quick off topic, you ever gonna write some AoS? Please don't. Stay in good universe with us. If I'm not mistaken, the duel would happen in book 3. Unless "gearing up for the huge fight with the Templars that's waiting for them as they leave" means killing Sigismund, we're likely to get it in Chaos Ascendant. That makes sense. Pretty hard to fill one book with such things as the meteoric rise of the Black Legion in the Eye, the rallying of the warbands, the battles to win the respect of the Primarchs and the Legions, the preparations for the first Black Crusade, the actual first Black Crusade, Ularan and Drach'nyen. Looking forward to it. EDIT : Also looking forward to what you will come up with for the Bringers of Despair. What's their actual name in the Black Legion, because Bringers of Despair doesn't really do it for me. Hope that wouldn't be the case. Cause in some case it would be a cheat. We all are totally pumped for it - and then, nope not here - wait for the next year, 2, 3 then I would be able to write it. Bad move, bad bad move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 If I'm not mistaken, the duel would happen in book 3. Unless "gearing up for the huge fight with the Templars that's waiting for them as they leave" means killing Sigismund, we're likely to get it in Chaos Ascendant. That makes sense. Pretty hard to fill one book with such things as the meteoric rise of the Black Legion in the Eye, the rallying of the warbands, the battles to win the respect of the Primarchs and the Legions, the preparations for the first Black Crusade, the actual first Black Crusade, Ularan and Drach'nyen. Book 2 is rallying and breaking out of the Eye. Book 3 will be the First Black Crusade. Although even that does it a disservice; the Sabbat Worlds Crusade rages for decades and is already on something like 15 books, and every one of Abaddon's Black Crusade (except the Seventh?) eclipses that by no small degree. At this point, I'm thinking Book 3 will start with "And in the ninth year of the war you call the First Black Crusade, here's where we were..." Luckily, Khayon's storytelling (much like a lot of the historical fiction I read...) isn't linear. Just like Talon is filled with unchronological side stories and explanations and loads of memories, the rest of the series will follow that same path. Like how Derfel Cadarn sort of rolls his eyes when people keep asking him of Excalibur and Camelot. "It was just Arthur's sword, and the bards don't know the real reasons that sword was special..." and "We never called it Camelot, there were no poets that sang of the Round Table, we just tried to rule fairly, and keep our people safe." "I'm telling you how the Chaos Legions function and what grip the Dark Gods have on our hearts. This is information that could save or damn the human race. Why do you care exactly which Tuesday it was that we painted our tanks black?" There's no way you could even fit a detailed presentation of winning over the Legions and the primarchs for a single Crusade (and he's done it several times...) in a single novel. Some of it (let's be honest, a fair bit of it) lore-wise has to be used at its most convincing moments in an overall arc, and Khayon wouldn't see all of it with his own eyes. Christ, getting one of the primarchs on-side should be an incredible story, and a novel in its own right. Black Crusade lore was a little better when it was vaguer, in a way, because it made more sense. Khayon's explanations of them match the 2nd and 3rd and 3.5 edition 'hellish horde' explanations, rather than the very defined and small-scale feel of the Black Legion supplement. : Also looking forward to what you can come up with for the Bringers of Despair. What's their actual name in the Black Legion, because Bringers of Despair don't really do it for me. http://i.imgur.com/jTRrqVK.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 If I'm not mistaken, the duel would happen in book 3. Unless "gearing up for the huge fight with the Templars that's waiting for them as they leave" means killing Sigismund, we're likely to get it in Chaos Ascendant. That makes sense. Pretty hard to fill one book with such things as the meteoric rise of the Black Legion in the Eye, the rallying of the warbands, the battles to win the respect of the Primarchs and the Legions, the preparations for the first Black Crusade, the actual first Black Crusade, Ularan and Drach'nyen. Book 2 is rallying and breaking out of the Eye. Book 3 will be the First Black Crusade. Although even that does it a disservice; the Sabbat Worlds Crusade rages for decades and is already on something like 15 books, and every one of Abaddon's Black Crusade (except the Seventh?) eclipses that by no small degree. At this point, I'm thinking Book 3 will start with "And in the ninth year of the war you call the First Black Crusade, here's where we were..." Luckily, Khayon's storytelling (much like a lot of the historical fiction I read...) isn't linear. Just like Talon is filled with unchronological side stories and explanations and loads of memories, the rest of the series will follow that same path. Like how Derfel Cadarn sort of rolls his eyes when people keep asking him of Excalibur and Camelot. "It was just Arthur's sword, and the bards don't know the real reasons that sword was special..." and "We never called it Camelot, there were no poets that sang of the Round Table, we just tried to rule fairly, and keep our people safe." "I'm telling you how the Chaos Legions function and what grip the Dark Gods have on our hearts. This is information that could save or damn the human race. Why do you care exactly which Tuesday it was that we painted our tanks black?" There's no way you could even fit a detailed presentation of winning over the Legions and the primarchs for a single Crusade (and he's done it several times...) in a single novel. Some of it (let's be honest, a fair bit of it) lore-wise has to be used at its most convincing moments in an overall arc, and Khayon wouldn't see all of it with his own eyes. Christ, getting one of the primarchs on-side should be an incredible story, and a novel in its own right. Black Crusade lore was a little better when it was vaguer, in a way, because it made more sense. Khayon's explanations of them match the 2nd and 3rd and 3.5 edition 'hellish horde' explanations, rather than the very defined and small-scale feel of the Black Legion supplement. : Also looking forward to what you can come up with for the Bringers of Despair. What's their actual name in the Black Legion, because Bringers of Despair don't really do it for me. http://i.imgur.com/jTRrqVK.jpg We totally believe in you master - but please do not stretch it too far. Look what happened to Gaunt Ghosts - 13 books and now we wait for the 14th 4 years now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Thanks for the quick answer. I won't try to push my luck and ask if the members of the Aphotic Blade get through some kind of ritual to bind some crafty daemon to new recruits, or if they are numerous enough to spread to other warbands, protecting high ranking members of the Ezekarion along with Abaddon (and yes, it's a preterition). I was under the impression you were paving the way for a ride on the Plague Planet, since it appeared like the toughest time the rising Black Legion had, along with losing such a prized artefact in Lheor's axe. And I suspect we'll get a glimpse of the breaking of Magnus by his own son in due time. I'd like to get the meeting with Lorgar too, for several reasons, but that's personal preference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Lorgar would be an interesting choice, to see how his personality and perspective have changed in 10,000 years given his key role in the heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/15/#findComment-4591664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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