bluntblade Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I'd rather not see Abaddon's detractors given the sword to credit with all his achievements. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4827183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I'd rather not see Abaddon's detractors given the sword to credit with all his achievements. 'given the sword to credit with all his achievements.' - could you extrapolate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4827196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 I suppose Bluntblade meant avoiding fuelling possible future flame wars about how Sigismund only lost to Abaddon because of his big magic sword. But, while I'm thinking about it, I hope we'll get to know what happens to the soul of someone killed by Drach'nyen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4827294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 At a guess I think the phrase "weaponised oblivion" should give you a clue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4827350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I suppose Bluntblade meant avoiding fuelling possible future flame wars about how Sigismund only lost to Abaddon because of his big magic sword. But, while I'm thinking about it, I hope we'll get to know what happens to the soul of someone killed by Drach'nyen. Except he doesn't have it - of course future events could be given to it. Recently, in Treklit, there was something similar - the novel Control , written by David Mack, revealed a widespread artificial intelligence in the Federation, responsible for decisions made from about 2140 onwards (until 2386 in which the novel is set). While the novel is very well written, one uncomfortable suggestion the novel leaves for readers is how much control the programme - Uraei/Control - had over much of the history of Star Trek. As some posters there wrote, for example a criticism of the possibility of an all-controlling device controlling everything: It bugged me, and I feel like the book is destined to be largely forgotten, because it has to be. Apparently nothing of any consequence happened in the 23rd or 24th Century without 31 knowing about it ahead of time. If anything is happening to the characters in the Federation, we can basically assume that it only occurred because Control let it, and will continue to let things happen depending on whether it allows it. These revelations probably should’ve started a quadrant-wide war within days. The Federation has planted malicious code in the systems of its enemies and allies alike. And not a couple of backdoors, a full on surveillance state. The Klingons should’ve been bombing Earth by the end of the day. But that won’t happen (Or at least I assume it won’t) because that’s not the way the books are trending right now. Probably the only major fallout for this will be that Bashir, who was already basically a background character due to the Andorian thing, will be even more so for a while. No disrespect to Mack. I’ve always liked his books, and I’ll be there for the next one. But the concept behind this one was fatally flawed. I disagreed with that, but it's interesting. Another poster, a highly progressive poster, wrote "The one thing I will say right off the bat is this: I do not think that United Earth and the United Federation of Planets would not have happened without Uraei. I do, however, think that Uraei probably sped things up by unjustly removing from the scene political actors whose influence would likely have slowed things down. I do not consider that to mean that the Federation is inherently fraudulent -- after all, the overwhelming number of Federation citizens and Federation leaders never knew Uraei or Section 31 existed." The reason I bring this up is that the 'man behind the curtain' or with the sword, the 'daemon behind the curtain', trope is very powerful, but it can be perceived to disenfranchise the protagonists of a setting. I'm sure ADB will leave this an open question - especially since Abaddon is not the protagonist or even a narrator of the BL series - which I think, as Mack did with Control, leaves the reader both frustrated and perturbed, but in a potentially good way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4827374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 At a guess I think the phrase "weaponised oblivion" should give you a clue. Indeed. A D-B could have went two ways here - he could have syphoned the soul and plunge it into the eternal torment inside the blade itself. Or simply totally annihilate killed character soul on any plain of existence (warp included). We will know for sure in August :) Or Bowden could simply kill Sigi cleanly not with the sword and have a nice troll laugh on us all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4827455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Since the duel happens in Black Legion, when Abaddon doesn't have Drach'nyen yet, I'd risk to imagine he won't kill Sigismund with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4827562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 This is one of the crucial stepping stone events that leads to the birth of several Gods. There are others, other moments and deeds that humanity commits that matter and echo into the boiling soup of Chaos, but this is most definitely one of the major ones. Daemons sing of it, boast of it, are brought into existence because it happened all those epochs ago. Wait, are we still going with the "humanity caused the birth of Khorne, etc" stuff? Because considering how many other sapient species there must have been in the galaxy before humanity ever spread from its homeworld, I've always thought it a bit daft that the most powerful warp entities out there were spawned with anything more than meagre contribution from humanity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4827772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I suppose Bluntblade meant avoiding fuelling possible future flame wars about how Sigismund only lost to Abaddon because of his big magic sword. But, while I'm thinking about it, I hope we'll get to know what happens to the soul of someone killed by Drach'nyen. Precisely. I want to see Abaddon face Sigismund on as close to equal terms as possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4827792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I suppose Bluntblade meant avoiding fuelling possible future flame wars about how Sigismund only lost to Abaddon because of his big magic sword. But, while I'm thinking about it, I hope we'll get to know what happens to the soul of someone killed by Drach'nyen. Precisely. I want to see Abaddon face Sigismund on as close to equal terms as possible. As Vesper said, Abaddon doesn't have Drach'nyen when he fights Sigismund. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 This is one of the crucial stepping stone events that leads to the birth of several Gods. There are others, other moments and deeds that humanity commits that matter and echo into the boiling soup of Chaos, but this is most definitely one of the major ones. Daemons sing of it, boast of it, are brought into existence because it happened all those epochs ago. Wait, are we still going with the "humanity caused the birth of Khorne, etc" stuff? Because considering how many other sapient species there must have been in the galaxy before humanity ever spread from its homeworld, I've always thought it a bit daft that the most powerful warp entities out there were spawned with anything more than meagre contribution from humanity. The problem is few species have spread as far as humanity, and not with emotions as wild as mankinds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Abby vs Sigis is probably the hardest thing ADB is ever going to have to write. The more I think about it the more I'm worried about reading it. A list of fears includes: Sigi is old: how old? Dante is 1100 and eats nids, is he 2k? Does that mean Abby can only beat him because he's old? Sigi is war wracked: Abby can only kill him because he's injured Abby cheats: he can't beat sigi in a straight fight plus above reasons The dual is split up: Abby couldn't beat sigi in x time. Sigi runs: IF guys will hate you Abby runs: more memes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 If you get your :cuss kicked on an off day, you still get your :cuss kicked. It's not a reflection on your character to be old, tired, or injured. Those are externalities. It's a reflection on your character if you run away or give up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Abby vs Sigis is probably the hardest thing ADB is ever going to have to write. Man, not even close. You have a point, but what you're describing in that list is lot of what people's reactions will be, several of which are heightened by general internet nonsense and memes. You can't write for that stuff. You can't worry about it. People will say what people will say, they'll think what they think, often regardless of what's in the actual text. You just present something as realistically as you can, and with as much integrity as possible, and trust readers to get it. Look at the Night of the Wolf. You had Wolf fans saying it was an amazing victory, and lamenting it as an awful defeat. You had World Eater fans saying it was a great victory, and cursing that it was a terrible defeat. 99% of readers saw it as a stalemate, or realised one side won the battle but lost the war, and so on. But the people against it, saying it was definitely X, Y, or Z... They raged regardless of what was actually in the text. They approached it with their belief of what should/must happen in that situation, and despite the fact none of them even agreed with each other, it was a brief storm of "This is wrong". If you bow to that mindset, you'll never get anything written. Maybe the blandest, most harmless, least insightful stuff - but literary advice is rife with stuff like "If you fear readers' reactions, you'll be paralysed and never write a word." Forthe same reason, many people on Reddit and 4chan, who are often the earliest/loudest with this stuff, are going to hate it no matter what it is. That list you wrote, where literally no answer is the right one? It's a great list. And that's who those people often are. Anything you do will be the wrong answer to them, and people like them. Not because the answer is actually wrong, but because no one really agrees on what was right - and you're left with a storm of "This is wrong" instead. Sigismund vs. Abaddon wasn't difficult at all compared to all the explaining how the warp works, and showing the diversity of Chaos warbands, and all the other stuff in the series. And I'm not worried about the reaction to it. Everyone who saw it, and has a decent grasp on the setting, said it was variously great, felt perfect, and did both characters justice. I'm not worried about the reactions of the kinds of fans who say "us" when talking about their fave Chapter, or froth on /tg/ about how I "love Chaos" or whatever other nonsense they tell themselves to prove their false points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 If you get your :cuss kicked on an off day, you still get your :cuss kicked. It's not a reflection on your character to be old, tired, or injured. Those are externalities. It's a reflection on your character if you run away or give up.Is more for abbadon than sigi, in universe it doesn't matter how he kills him because he's killed the emperors champion and that's it, more how it looks to us as fans and whether or not it is acceptable to our collective head canon. Edit: ADB comes in and covers it! Cheers dude Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 At this point in time in the internet's zeitgeist, anything ADB does will be lampooned by the Edgelords when they take a break from ruining real life and sobbing into their pillows at night. Not because it deserves it, but because these :cuss know they are reviled and like some modicum of attention in their sad lives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I'm still reeling from the impression that reading ADBs post above makes me think he's finished writing TBL and is still writing SoTE. He usually writes much slower than that, but it's OK as he writes so ... in tune with the setting. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 ehm.... If I remember correctly, TBL will be released in August, so yeah....he has finished it a while ago. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I'm still reeling from the impression that reading ADBs post above makes me think he's finished writing TBL and is still writing SoTE. He usually writes much slower than that, but it's OK as he writes so ... in tune with the setting. I've been writing Spear of the Emperor since February. Black Legion took a really, really long time., as usual, because I am deeply unprofessional. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I'm still reeling from the impression that reading ADBs post above makes me think he's finished writing TBL and is still writing SoTE. He usually writes much slower than that, but it's OK as he writes so ... in tune with the setting. I've been writing Spear of the Emperor since February. Black Legion took a really, really long time., as usual, because I am deeply unprofessional.Hmm, this sounds like time for a ... https://i.giphy.com/media/g8rhUpt0ounKM/giphy.webp :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 At this point in time in the internet's zeitgeist, anything ADB does will be lampooned by the Edgelords when they take a break from ruining real life and sobbing into their pillows at night. Not because it deserves it, but because these know they are reviled and like some modicum of attention in their sad lives. ....Am I an Edgelord because i'm not a massive fan of Talon of Horus in retrospect? TThe more analyzed it the more I started to think you could of made it about a Thousand Sons Sorcerer, a World Eater, and a Emperor's Children Legionnaire walking into a bar and the books second half would of been much stronger. Welp...better go paint a Ravenguard army then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4828991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 About the first murder in MoM... A. the first murder was with a crude spear through the ribs by a prehistoric hominid. Most likely pre-200,000 BP B. The Emperor's uncle murdered his father with a blow to the head. The Emperor then stopped his uncle's heart. Most likely Neolithic era...around 10,000 to 6,000 BP. A and B are two separate events connected by the thread of murder Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4829018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 At this point in time in the internet's zeitgeist, anything ADB does will be lampooned by the Edgelords when they take a break from ruining real life and sobbing into their pillows at night. Not because it deserves it, but because these know they are reviled and like some modicum of attention in their sad lives. ....Am I an Edgelord because i'm not a massive fan of Talon of Horus in retrospect? You know you're not. There's a world of difference between not liking something, and the kinds of reactions getting referred to. That said, you like some very specific stuff, LoLo, almost purely because of the Legion that's in it - or absent from it, some of which you couldn't pay me to read again because I thought it was los garbagos, so I'm resigned to agreeing with you 90% of the time as someone who frames Chaos exactly the same as I do... and then having that 10% where I seek divorce in court for irreconcilable differences in literature taste. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4829201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 some of which you couldn't pay me to read again because I thought it was los garbagos Careful now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4829462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 some of which you couldn't pay me to read again because I thought it was los garbagos Careful now. I'm totally careful. No one knows what I don't like. And, lucky for me, I like quite a lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/33/#findComment-4829525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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