The Black Legion

[A D-B]

 

 

I'm still reeling from the impression that reading ADBs post above makes me think he's finished writing TBL and is still writing SoTE.

 

He usually writes much slower than that, but it's OK as he writes so ... in tune with the setting.

I've been writing Spear of the Emperor since February. Black Legion took a really, really long time., as usual, because I am deeply unprofessional.

Hmm, this sounds like time for a ...

 

https://i.giphy.com/media/g8rhUpt0ounKM/giphy.webp

 

 

 

That... is freaking adorable.

 

Also, yes, b1soul. Right as usual, good sir.

[Robster The Lobster]

Let´s see how much hatred I can earn from this one post...

 

I don´t particularity care for Sigismund, the character have never really spoken to me, his story of never losing never really touched me in anyway, good or bad. For me it just sounded like the worst bad of 40k(or 30k in the case of Sigismund), that the hero could never truly lose.

 

I think Laurie said in another thread that one of the rules for their authors was that a truly bad guy had to lose, which in essence´s mean that the hero somehow have to win. And that, in my own humble opinion is not grimdark, and I think Sigismund fall into that for me, the hero who never lost.

 

That said, I´m not well versed in Sigismund lore, and old man Sigismund is more interesting since he refused to give in to the codex rules and stubbornly guards the eye of terror

 

So with that ramble out of the way, why do I look forward for the fight.

 

Well it´s two of the most well known names of the universe facing of against each other, and Sigismund is the last Astartes `traitors`would call brother. How will that impact them? And the way they view the rest of their cousin´s. That is what I´m looking forward to. Not how Sigismund die, or if Abaddon come of as the most bad ass warlord of all time.

 

Oh, but what I´m looking forward to the most is see how the Black Legion itself evolve´s as a character, just as A D-B managed to do with the Word Bearers and the World Eater´s, I want to see how the Black and Gold evolve as a character in itself.

[Loesh]

 

 

At this point in time in the internet's zeitgeist, anything ADB does will be lampooned by the Edgelords when they take a break from ruining real life and sobbing into their pillows at night.

 

Not because it deserves it, but because these know they are reviled and like some modicum of attention in their sad lives.

....Am I an Edgelord because i'm not a massive fan of Talon of Horus in retrospect? 

 

You know you're not. There's a world of difference between not liking something, and the kinds of reactions getting referred to.

 

That said, you like some very specific stuff, LoLo, almost purely because of the Legion that's in it - or absent from it, some of which you couldn't pay me to read again because I thought it was los garbagos, so I'm resigned to agreeing with you 90% of the time as someone who frames Chaos exactly the same as I do... and then having that 10% where I seek divorce in court for irreconcilable differences in literature taste.

 

Well yes, but...also no? Haha, but it can certainly seem that way since I don't often expand on my tastes here beyond gushing over this or condemning that. As time has gone on i'v had a sort of change in how I perceive most of the stuff that I liked early on, and what I have now. But yes, generally I will find anything with Blood Angels or Emperor's Children in it at least acceptable enough for me to actually read, but...just as an example...these days I would think 'like' is a very strong word for Reflection Crack'd and the first half of Fulgrim, likewise I would rather get a root canal then read about most of the early portrayals of Eidolon in the Horus Heresy, even if written by our Lord and Savior Dan Abnett. Some of these things have cool concepts that I can appreciate, I know what Reflection Crack'd was trying to good for and I thought it was neat, but oh boy, these days it seems so clumsy and eye rolling in execution. Reynolds, Kyme, and Wraight have done it so much smoother now that we're further into the swing of writing 40k that it's not even funny, even Ian St Martin a guy who I barely knew about before In Wolfs Clothing has refined the Legion so much better now, his excerpt of Faultless Blade alone is amazing.

 

That said my problem with Talon of Horus and the series in general is Legion based, but arguably something people wouldn't find as a problem. The issue is mostly for me that as time went on I realized I liked Khayon, Lheor, and Telemachon not  for their future status as Black Legionnaires but because of pretty much any time we get insight into their past Legions or how they go about things, the latter of which is something I can only consistently look forward to as we go out from here. While I adore Khayons insight into the warp that might not be enough to attach me to a book. As they move away from their status as Legionnaires of X into becoming Black Legion proper ill derive less enjoyment much for the same reason that I ultimately decided to put down Drizzit Do'urdens Forgotten Realm books when I was younger. The Black Legion itself is hard for me to get behind because their primary characteristics are getting away from their past, Cthonian topknots, and success, this last one isn't without hardship, you can't say they are Mary Sues who win without suffering for it, but winning more then most isn't really a meaty enough concept to build a Legion around, I didn't get much out of Drizzit beating the odds for the twentieth time, I won't get much out of the Black Legion ultimately winning because that's what they do all the way up to Cadia.

 

That said there is one Legion I legit feel that way about although I just joked about them, I refuse to read anything Raven Guard, love ya Gav Thorpe but Deliverance Lost was a word crime and I refuse to go near any RG reading material because of that.

[Walter Payton]

 

I think Laurie said in another thread that one of the rules for their authors was that a truly bad guy had to lose, which in essence´s mean that the hero somehow have to win.

 

That's surprising to me if it is true.  Marduk and Talos seemed to do OK - I mean, Talos died, but he did still manage to bring Decimus into the world.

 

 

 

 Reynolds, Kyme, and Wraight have done it so much smoother now that we're further into the swing of writing 40k that it's not even funny, even Ian St Martin a guy who I barely knew about before In Wolfs Clothing has refined the Legion so much better now, his excerpt of Faultless Blade alone is amazing.

 

Chris Wraight is one of the best recent additions to the Black Library team in years.  

 

That's definitely something that's become almost mundane - the jump in quality of Black Library output since I started out in the hobby.  When I began there was Abnett and McNeil and that was really it in terms of authors who A: could turn out good material, and B: consistently wrote for Black Library.  There were other greats like William King and Ian Watson, but they didn't consistently produce 40k content.  

 

Since then we've had the likes of Sandy Mitchell, Chris Wraight, Robbie McNiven, Anthony Reynolds, and of course ADB, to name a few.

 

Even authors I never used to rate like James Swallow and Ben Counter have grown into the genre and have started writing books I really enjoy. 

 

---

 

Really excited that ADB is writing loyalists again.

[Robster The Lobster]

 

 

I think Laurie said in another thread that one of the rules for their authors was that a truly bad guy had to lose, which in essence´s mean that the hero somehow have to win.

 

That's surprising to me if it is true.  Marduk and Talos seemed to do OK - I mean, Talos died, but he did still manage to bring Decimus into the world.

 

 

Don´t wont to derail this thread, with any thought about morality within the 40k niverse, we can always start another thread and argue until we can´t argue no more. But found the the post for the bad guy morality... It is his second point

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328792-morality-in-40k-writing/?p=4594697

[Walter Payton]

Thanks a lot for linking that, that was a really interesting read.  

 

The point about depicting sex/sexualised humour is interesting.  I suppose that does account for the almost Disney-like way in which Black Library books approach sex - I'm thinking of poor Octavia in Soul Hunter and the scenes between the Space Lannisters in The Devine Adoratrice and Vengeful Spirit.  On the other hand, I can recall a few dirty jokes and fairly obvious sexual references, especially in Abnett's work - Bequin's pre-Eisenhorn job, and I recall a conversation where a character refers to an itch in the Gaunt novels as "not something I picked up from one of Alexa's girls".  Of course, perhaps the rules have changed since then!  

 

I still think that the "baddies must get their comeuppance" rule does get bent or broken.  If you read the Word Bearers books, for example, Marduk builds giant towers out of dead people and Sabtec reminisces about having some Sisters of Battle eaten by mosquitoes.  On the other hand, it is all "discreet" in the sense that it isn't the focus.  

 

Having read Laurie's post, I do wonder if there isn't almost a moral issue in presenting a sanitised, almost cartoonish version of what is, ultimately, fascism and total war in order to appeal to young readers.  Although I suppose that is a problem with any violent media to some degree.

[bluntblade]

I truly believe the best thing that's happened to Sigismund so far is Templar's depiction of him wrenching victory from the jaws of defeat.

[Mellow]

I wonder if ADB invented the whole "golden Daemon bloke is the Astronomicon who gets 'killed'" or if the powers that be (BL bigwigs) said that was how it was and he has to write it.

[Marshal Rohr]

Sigismund became cool when he came to a fork in the road with a sign that said 'We must save the villagers' and 'The Emperor will know his own' and took thousands of Siege survivors and dozens of ships down the latter.

[HeritorA]

Since the duel happens in Black Legion, when Abaddon doesn't have Drach'nyen yet, I'd risk to imagine he won't kill Sigismund with it.

 

Actually from what I understand from A D-B and excerpts - first part of the BL is exactly about getting the Drach'nyen. So he would have the sword by the point of the duel.

 

 

I'm still reeling from the impression that reading ADBs post above makes me think he's finished writing TBL and is still writing SoTE.

 

He usually writes much slower than that, but it's OK as he writes so ... in tune with the setting.

 

I've been writing Spear of the Emperor since February. Black Legion took a really, really long time., as usual, because I am deeply unprofessional.

 

 

Not so - you are a talented author and how you do the magic is your own prerogative.

You are right in your own set of rules :) I think most of us were waiting for the BL since we finished the Talon :)

August can't come soon enough.

[Vesper]

 

Since the duel happens in Black Legion, when Abaddon doesn't have Drach'nyen yet, I'd risk to imagine he won't kill Sigismund with it.

 

Actually from what I understand from A D-B and excerpts - first part of the BL is exactly about getting the Drach'nyen. So he would have the sword by the point of the duel.

You are wrong. Khayon trying to assassinate Daravek has absolutly no link with the quest for Drach'nyen. Then, since it has been revealed than the duel happens in Black Legion, and that the recovery of the sword would wait for Chaos Ascendant, I fear Abaddon will have to kill Sigismund with something else.

[Loesh]

A teacup?

[HeritorA]

 

 

Since the duel happens in Black Legion, when Abaddon doesn't have Drach'nyen yet, I'd risk to imagine he won't kill Sigismund with it.

 

Actually from what I understand from A D-B and excerpts - first part of the BL is exactly about getting the Drach'nyen. So he would have the sword by the point of the duel.

You are wrong. Khayon trying to assassinate Daravek has absolutly no link with the quest for Drach'nyen. Then, since it has been revealed than the duel happens in Black Legion, and that the recovery of the sword would wait for Chaos Ascendant, I fear Abaddon will have to kill Sigismund with something else.

 

 

A D-B said that? Drach'nyen quest in the next novel after the BL? It seems I missed something, lol

[bluntblade]

A teacup?

Take the teacup, leave the Talon

[A D-B]

 

 

Since the duel happens in Black Legion, when Abaddon doesn't have Drach'nyen yet, I'd risk to imagine he won't kill Sigismund with it.

 

Actually from what I understand from A D-B and excerpts - first part of the BL is exactly about getting the Drach'nyen. So he would have the sword by the point of the duel.

You are wrong. Khayon trying to assassinate Daravek has absolutly no link with the quest for Drach'nyen. Then, since it has been revealed than the duel happens in Black Legion, and that the recovery of the sword would wait for Chaos Ascendant, I fear Abaddon will have to kill Sigismund with something else.

 

A toffee hammer.

 

Also, yes, you're right. I've mentioned it a few times, but it's earlier in this thread, too: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323391-the-black-legion/?p=4591380

 

I also think Book III could be a more elegantly titled Crusade or The Daemon in the Blade, or something. Chaos Ascendant may need to wait for the Mark of Chaos Ascendant, which is a while away yet. 

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

How about End of Empires? Might seem a little misleading, but anyone who's read TMoM will be acutely aware of what it's referring to.

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

Since the duel happens in Black Legion, when Abaddon doesn't have Drach'nyen yet, I'd risk to imagine he won't kill Sigismund with it.

 

Actually from what I understand from A D-B and excerpts - first part of the BL is exactly about getting the Drach'nyen. So he would have the sword by the point of the duel.

You are wrong. Khayon trying to assassinate Daravek has absolutly no link with the quest for Drach'nyen. Then, since it has been revealed than the duel happens in Black Legion, and that the recovery of the sword would wait for Chaos Ascendant, I fear Abaddon will have to kill Sigismund with something else.

 

A toffee hammer.

 

Also, yes, you're right. I've mentioned it a few times, but it's earlier in this thread, too: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323391-the-black-legion/?p=4591380

 

I also think Book III could be a more elegantly titled Crusade or The Daemon in the Blade, or something. Chaos Ascendant may need to wait for the Mark of Chaos Ascendant, which is a while away yet. 

 

 

Thank you. Now it is clear as to the quest for the sword :) Anyway BL would be good :)

[Vesper]

Crusade is badass enough if you ask me (which you don't, but my tastes remain awesome). I know the quest for Drach'nyen is a huge deal, and it will be great to follow it. But so is the rebuilding of the traitors' morale. Allowing them to taste victory once more. Not a shallow victory against equally desperate warbands, but against the opponent that matters. Baptizing the Black Legion in the blood shed in the first act of the holy war it has been built for, quenching the Legionnaires' thirst for vengeance for the first time after an eternity in hell. It is such an important part, such a defining moment in the Legion's identity. One could imagine the probably great number of marines who took the black out of opportunism and ended up trully embracing Abaddon's ideal with the First Black Crusade. It wasn't empty words, shallow speaches, they will really tear down the Imperium.

 

It would be quite satisfying to read about that. And I'm eagerly looking forward to it.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Returned, as a throwback to their old school 'We are Returned' motto.

[HeritorA]

Crusade is badass enough if you ask me (which you don't, but my tastes remain awesome). I know the quest for Drach'nyen is a huge deal, and it will be great to follow it. But so is the rebuilding of the traitors' morale. Allowing them to taste victory once more. Not a shallow victory against equally desperate warbands, but against the opponent that matters. Baptizing the Black Legion in the blood shed in the first act of the holy war it has been built for, quenching the Legionnaires' thirst for vengeance for the first time after an eternity in hell. It is such an important part, such a defining moment in the Legion's identity. One could imagine the probably great number of marines who took the black out of opportunism and ended up trully embracing Abaddon's ideal with the First Black Crusade. It wasn't empty words, shallow speaches, they will really tear down the Imperium.

 

It would be quite satisfying to read about that. And I'm eagerly looking forward to it.

 

Same. That's one epic summary battle-brother. I would not have said it better.

 

'It wasn't empty words, shallow speaches, they will really tear down the Imperium.' - I think by the time of the BL, most of Abaddon coterie think of him as simply a warmongering warlord, which is typical for the Eye of Terror.

So 'that' even - the true baptism of blood will truly solidify them as a new unstoppable power not only in the Eye, but also as a boogeyman for the Imperium

[Mellow]

We all know ADB doesn't write that quickly (and I'm sure he's admitted to it many a time on here) but he won't have time to write these other novels as he will be too busy writing (hopefully)

 

one of the Primarch novels

One of the siege novels

Another novel set in the "new setting" about how the lion waking up and being the polar opposite of Guilliman

Another novel about Lorgar doing something in the new setting

 

The Black Legion will have to wait ;)

 

By the way, the above is just my wish list.

[HeritorA]

We all know ADB doesn't write that quickly (and I'm sure he's admitted to it many a time on here) but he won't have time to write these other novels as he will be too busy writing (hopefully)

 

one of the Primarch novels

One of the siege novels

Another novel set in the "new setting" about how the lion waking up and being the polar opposite of Guilliman

Another novel about Lorgar doing something in the new setting

 

The Black Legion will have to wait

 

By the way, the above is just my wish list.

Minus Lorgar I wish the same. Wishlist approved ;)

[Loesh]

All that said stuff before said, I think I may pick up Black Legion just because I like the idea of Sorcerer assassins and the 'Lord of Hosts' seems like an interesting character.

[Prot]

I'm dying to pick up Bkack Legion. I know I wasn't the biggest fan of Talon, but it's a very rare occasion when I don't love something of ADB's. I'm personally trying to find motivation to dive deep into BL as a project (as some of my recent batrep may show). This will hopefully come out just in time.

[Loesh]

I'm dying to pick up Bkack Legion. I know I wasn't the biggest fan of Talon, but it's a very rare occasion when I don't love something of ADB's. I'm personally trying to find motivation to dive deep into BL as a project (as some of my recent batrep may show). This will hopefully come out just in time.

At the very least i'm going to enjoy Khayon, as I had a similar concept for an EC Warlord back in the day but the number of non-imperial sources on Psykers Assassins/Warriors rather then seers and backline casters is relatively limited. Likewise all my Forgotten Realms Deja Vu is bad, I get the impression i'm going to enjoy the Lord of Hosts as an antagonist in the same way I enjoyed Artemis Entreri if we see much more of him throughout the book, always a fan of long back and forths between enemies who are almost a mental and physical equal.