Khannis Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 First of all, thanks for sharing, GreaterChicken!But this is what baffles me: I was never good at math, far from it in fact, I'm a historian much more comfortable around dead languages than I am around trigonometry. But even I took one glance at this and saw that even the roughest of estimates resulted in a power literally worse than all other damage-oriented ones in existence in 8th Ed, and it offers no advantage whatsoever except when you literally have no other choice but to cast it (i.e. it's better than nothing).I like references like the 9 dice for a "sacred number" but as I exemplified above, there are plenty of ways of maintaining this characteristic and stil get something that offers some advantage, be it more damage, more potential reward at the cost of high risk, higher reliabilty... Anything. Imagine if this was WC 3, making it basically auto-cast. Would it be a good power? Probably not. Would it offer at least SOME advantage compared to what the psychic phase in 8th Ed. has to offer? Sure.I think the word I'm looking for here is "shocking". It is, literally, shockingly bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4946679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 You know what's funny? They have this same exact spell in Age of Sigmar....and it's better there. It's a 9 to cast (same mechanics except no Perils), but if you do pull it off, every unit within 9 inches takes D3 Mortals on a 4+. Niche, yes, but works well if you get near multiple enemy so it's nice against MSU. With Command Points and our bonuses, they should have just ported it over whole hog and called it done. It would have been LESS work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4946876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khannis Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 You know what's funny? They have this same exact spell in Age of Sigmar....and it's better there. It's a 9 to cast (same mechanics except no Perils), but if you do pull it off, every unit within 9 inches takes D3 Mortals on a 4+. Niche, yes, but works well if you get near multiple enemy so it's nice against MSU. With Command Points and our bonuses, they should have just ported it over whole hog and called it done. It would have been LESS work. Didn't know that. That's just sad... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4947007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Â You know what's funny? They have this same exact spell in Age of Sigmar....and it's better there. It's a 9 to cast (same mechanics except no Perils), but if you do pull it off, every unit within 9 inches takes D3 Mortals on a 4+. Niche, yes, but works well if you get near multiple enemy so it's nice against MSU. With Command Points and our bonuses, they should have just ported it over whole hog and called it done. It would have been LESS work. Didn't know that. That's just sad... Â Yeah, they go to all the trouble to create mechanics that are essentially compatible and don't leverage that. The Sigmar version is literally called "Tzeentch's Firestorm" for crying out loud, and the Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot has that as its signature spell. Via the Herald's Arcane Tome and/or Destiny Dice, you can expect to be successful with it two or three times a game. Â In 40k, Ahriman would be throwing it on an 8, 6 with our Stratagem, and then a Command Reroll could be used whenever you flubbed a clutch 4+ roll. Would be nice to sit behind a wall of dust bunnies or goats and spam it into ongoing assaults. Â Oh well.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4947083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 If you havent seen it take a look at the warhammer community site. It has a survey about the game. Let our voices be heard. I also put on a question to GW on facebook about Tzeenrch's firestorm and how the AoS is such easy port...so we'll see if i get a response. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4947226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsSons Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017  Example: Reece from Frontline Gaming mentioned that Guilliman's power level was missed during playtest because he didn't seem that far off when being tested.  However, Reece has also separately mentioned many times on video that they got to play with ALL of the Codexes....and he specifically mentioned Drukhari being the most powerful.     Thanks for sharing. But wait... that means all the codex are already completed? I thought they were releasing all the codex over a couple of years because each codex takes time to design, and test. So it's surprising to hear that all the rules are already completed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4947255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017   Example: Reece from Frontline Gaming mentioned that Guilliman's power level was missed during playtest because he didn't seem that far off when being tested.  However, Reece has also separately mentioned many times on video that they got to play with ALL of the Codexes....and he specifically mentioned Drukhari being the most powerful.     Thanks for sharing. But wait... that means all the codex are already completed? I thought they were releasing all the codex over a couple of years because each codex takes time to design, and test. So it's surprising to hear that all the rules are already completed.  If I remember right, GW said all Codexes would be out by 1 year after game launch, with 10 before Dec 31. The game launched in July, so at 2 a month, they are on pace to meet that goal. Given how long things like art and layout take, not to mention models, it would have been extremely risky NOT to have done them all beforehand with that kind of rapid release schedule.  From what I understand, they did a big batch of playtesting, created initial versions of all of the Codexes, and then they set them aside to get rules tweaks as needed (and as the meta develops) and get released as models, art, and printing schedules allow. FLG was very clear in their first few videos on 8th that they got at least an early version of each Codex, which was why Reece kept saying that there were mechanics coming down the line to at least partially address many of the issues raised at time of launch (hordes being perceived as OP, assault armies having difficulty crossing the table, the supposed uselessness of ignoring cover, etc.). He said that a glaring one that was reported by testers and not fixed as of launch was the power of low drop armies with powerful shooting that would be guaranteed to go first. Chapter Approved is taking care of that.  Now we get more armies each month that have some way to mitigate incoming shooting and soften alpha strikes. There are also some units that can put out an amazing volume of low strength shots with the aid of some of the stratagems or other items....to the point that armies like Green Tide are nowhere near as scary as they were at launch (Orks are way more mechanized now). Is it in a perfect place? No, but it's moving in the direction Reece and a few others said it would (though each successive release might look more and more different than its respective playtest version because they've been able to watch the meta). This may cause issues of a different kind, but my point is that it's going like he told us before the first Codex even dropped.   This is all from listening to people and watching lots of videos. Anyone who ACTUALLY has someone on the inside would probably know how close I am to the actual process, though I imagine they won't be telling. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4947394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamsael Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017    Example: Reece from Frontline Gaming mentioned that Guilliman's power level was missed during playtest because he didn't seem that far off when being tested.  However, Reece has also separately mentioned many times on video that they got to play with ALL of the Codexes....and he specifically mentioned Drukhari being the most powerful.     Thanks for sharing. But wait... that means all the codex are already completed? I thought they were releasing all the codex over a couple of years because each codex takes time to design, and test. So it's surprising to hear that all the rules are already completed.  If I remember right, GW said all Codexes would be out by 1 year after game launch, with 10 before Dec 31. The game launched in July, so at 2 a month, they are on pace to meet that goal. Given how long things like art and layout take, not to mention models, it would have been extremely risky NOT to have done them all beforehand with that kind of rapid release schedule.  From what I understand, they did a big batch of playtesting, created initial versions of all of the Codexes, and then they set them aside to get rules tweaks as needed (and as the meta develops) and get released as models, art, and printing schedules allow. FLG was very clear in their first few videos on 8th that they got at least an early version of each Codex, which was why Reece kept saying that there were mechanics coming down the line to at least partially address many of the issues raised at time of launch (hordes being perceived as OP, assault armies having difficulty crossing the table, the supposed uselessness of ignoring cover, etc.). He said that a glaring one that was reported by testers and not fixed as of launch was the power of low drop armies with powerful shooting that would be guaranteed to go first. Chapter Approved is taking care of that.  Now we get more armies each month that have some way to mitigate incoming shooting and soften alpha strikes. There are also some units that can put out an amazing volume of low strength shots with the aid of some of the stratagems or other items....to the point that armies like Green Tide are nowhere near as scary as they were at launch (Orks are way more mechanized now). Is it in a perfect place? No, but it's moving in the direction Reece and a few others said it would (though each successive release might look more and more different than its respective playtest version because they've been able to watch the meta). This may cause issues of a different kind, but my point is that it's going like he told us before the first Codex even dropped.   This is all from listening to people and watching lots of videos. Anyone who ACTUALLY has someone on the inside would probably know how close I am to the actual process, though I imagine they won't be telling.   They had said they had a number of codexes in various stages of development, and that THOSE would be out within a year. They did not say that every faction had a codex in any stage of development. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4950111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 The words (to paraphrase) "every existing current faction at the time of 8th edition release will have a codex within 12 months, the first 10 codexs will be out by december" lol. So 13 codexs between December and july as previously stated. which is right on track so far as we know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4950149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I think it's safe to say that we will at least get the 1/3 CP webway deployment rule. It's quite common. Â I would trade Warptime for that and a gate spell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4950169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Any idea how they might change the Scarab Occult Termis? A healthy pointsdrop might make them more "competitive" but I feel like they should get one or two unique rules to underline that they are our elite combat-psykers and honour guard of Magnus. Just compare them with my beloved Blightlord Terminators. Those are better at pretty much everything. More durable, more weapon options, deadlier in melee and they can be buffed by a plethora of stratagems and psychic powers.  I for one hope to see the Occult Termis getting a 4++, their Sorcerer getting 3W (if we pay that premium price I want according stats; otherwise I hope he becomes free) and them getting a second special rule beyond "All is dust". Maybe a special psychic power or an ability that they can use once per battle where they deal mortal wounds on a 6+ to wound roll (representing how they channel some additional oomph into their Inferno Bolters).  It would also be nice if they would buff the Helfyre Missilerack to -3AP. It feels just odd that freaking missiles have less armour-penetrating-capabilities than the bullets from the Soulreaper Cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4966735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 If you aren't already aware there are 2 TSons games that MWG posted up this week. Â Brutal games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4966746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I cannot check at this time, in what way where they brutal? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4966818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Miniwargaming reports are so full of rule blunders that I can't watch them for more than 10 minutes... Â In the first 5 minutes of last week report against Tau, the TS player rolled a 4 with Magnus to cast Warp Time, but used a Command point to re-roll one die because he forgot about the +2 to Psychic tests. Literally 10 seconds later, he rolled a 9 for Smite (which was actually an 11 with Magnus bonus) and only rolled one die for damage... I was pretty much done by then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4966848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Miniwargaming reports are so full of rule blunders that I can't watch them for more than 10 minutes... Â In the first 5 minutes of last week report against Tau, the TS player rolled a 4 with Magnus to cast Warp Time, but used a Command point to re-roll one die because he forgot about the +2 to Psychic tests. Literally 10 seconds later, he rolled a 9 for Smite (which was actually an 11 with Magnus bonus) and only rolled one die for damage... I was pretty much done by then. Im watching it now, so cringeworthy. I can barely watch it. So many obvious mistakes it hurts. Â Its a problem i find watching battle reports featuring Thousand Sons is the players tend not to know the rules to the point the most basic rules ate being forgotten. I really like table top tactics, because they know the rules really well, but TS have never been featured on there channel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4966865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Yeah i think he was playing the 1000 sons club army due to viewer suggestion and i dont think he is a 1000 Sons regular. Â Despite the errors i still enjoy mwg batreps though i get it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4967271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I'm not saying I don't enjoy them, it was just a brutal high loss game. The rules errors didn't help but it was just a raking over coals. Still great entertainment.  I did enjoy this game here: https://youtu.be/ZqzpXhWIwqk  New tubers and a very good game overall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4967378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 Well no sooner did i complain about Table Top tactics but they posted a battle report featuring TS too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4967745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_149 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Yes and it was a good game too! Going to be an awesome campaign :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4968292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017  I'm sure it's just to follow the Tzeentch theme, but the Scarab Occult termy tells me that we are closer lol.  You know what they say about hopes and dreams  Anyway, more interesting than a random picture is that GW said demons get FIVE psychic disciplines. If recent trends are anything to go by:  1. Chaos Daemons Discipline 2. Slaanesh Discipline 3. Nurgle Discipline 4. Fate Discipline 5. Change Discipline  That would pretty much follow what they did in the Disciples of Tzeentch tome for AoS, and it would be really cool if Thousand Sons get a similar treatment. A teleport power might make up for the loss of Warptime. Although, it makes sense that we would retain Dark Hereticus. They might just print it in the TS codex.  I'd rather just have Fate and Change and that's it. It would make us unique. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4969555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 ooooooooo. Daddy likes! Quite the potentiality for us.... I agree that having our *own* lores would be great....BUT if we keep Dark Hereticus I certainly would not complain, most of that lore is pretty great. I did notice that Scarab Occult, I want them to be properly scary on the table, right now they are okay but once we get strategems I expect even if they are the same they will be fairly monstrous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4969737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 That Locus of Trickery item is pretty interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4969755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 To be honest I think Scarabs are a joke compared to just Rubrics now.  I always take at least 1 unit no matter what, but I'm under the impression that having a Vanguard of 3 units is not very good because you don't have that much stuff deployed on the table. Always expect to not get the 1st turn.. Then once, the Scarabs arrive (either piecemeal or 3 units at once), their impact is less. This issue is worse if you are taking Magnus because of his cost.  Letting the Scarab sorcerer take a spell from whatever disciplines we might get would be nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4969840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 To be honest I think Scarabs are a joke compared to just Rubrics now.  I always take at least 1 unit no matter what, but I'm under the impression that having a Vanguard of 3 units is not very good because you don't have that much stuff deployed on the table. Always expect to not get the 1st turn.. Then once, the Scarabs arrive (either piecemeal or 3 units at once), their impact is less. This issue is worse if you are taking Magnus because of his cost.  Letting the Scarab sorcerer take a spell from whatever disciplines we might get would be nice.  Usually in my meta I found that its either "all" or "nothing" which works, my "all scarab occult list" drops and hits hard, supported by plurality of daemon engines and walkers, or I take a single unit of scarabs, or none at all and flood the board with Tzaangors/Rubricae. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4969908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Thought of something cool that could work. Â Imagine if Shards of the Silver Tower were a transport unit. If two were within 18" you could embark in one and choose to disembark at another. It could have the ability to shoot two weapon profiles, one for anti-tank and anti-infantry. Squads of 3, multi-wound models, with no movement, higher toughness, and an invulnerable save. Â Could be neat! Â I guess I just want some news! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/11/#findComment-4970181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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