With an eye to the past I look try to divine the future.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

I can see the Psychic power having  DEFINITE use, average 1-2 mortal wounds, chuck an infernal gaze on the same target...all of a sudden those 3-5 wound characters are looking alot more haggard arent they?  And if you just so happen to spike a roll?  

 

Seems like thats how GW intends to give us our "sniping" powers.  I would not be shocked to see thousand sons have 2 lores to pick from in compensation for what we lack in other options.  

 

We may not have snipers; but with this addition we have Two spells that can reliably put 1-2 wounds on a model in a given turn, with a reasonable amount of lucky you can mortal wound a 4 wound character to death in a single turn.  Commissar say what? Oh thats a cute apothecary....What about that Lieutenant you have there? Would be a shame if something..... HAPPENED TO THEM! 

but to do that, either our casting has to be better or our sorcerors get to cast more. as failing 1 of our powers means we won't be able to do that at all.

 

 

THIS is true; but i would assume we will get either that strategem we saw, or some kind of warlord trait or relic that adds to casting. I dont forsee that being a big issue, if anyone gets those bonuses its us. 

 

Edit / Addendum: We didnt get any previews in todays warhammer community page.  Given that the mortal wounds spell is true, we can assume that strategem is true as well and the warlord trait makes sense. 

 

Without knowing the other stuff, I dig the strategem as I tend to take 2-3 sorcerers in the HQ slot and we have sorcerers in every squad that are also Thousand Sons Psykers. So it wont be to hard to get this bonus of +2 to casting at all.  Its a fairly wide radius. 

 

So I am perfectly happy with that being one of our strategems. 

[BoomWolf]

I don't understand how some of you think the power isn't pure trash.

It works just like gaze, has nearly the same expected result as gaze, but it's far harder to cast.

And gaze isn't even a very good spell to begin with.

 

 

As for the rest.

 

We get a trait nobody cares about as it only even works against enemies that has psykers, so rulebook traits are straight out better.

 

The relic is also worthless as of the six doubles possible, on 1 2 and sometimes 3 the spell isn't even cast, on 6 you peril and nobody will ever deny, on 5 hardly anyone would deny either. So on double 4, is the enemy can deny at all, and would have succeeded, it's not denied.

The odds of it doing anything are astronomical low, it won't even trigger once in five games.

 

Then the stratagem, who isn't helping you cast much more than the basic reroll stratagem does, but is far less flexible, comes with strings attached and apperantly is used preemptively rather than reactively, so it's far worse.

 

Overall, we didn't get little we get nothing at all, as there is no reason to bother taking a TS detachment like this over a generic chaos detachment.

 

Hate being so salty on my first post here, but has to be done. Some people here are far too enthusiastic.

 

Unless we are getting more, and of much higher quality, I'll stick to alpha rubrics and getting my ahriman from a chaos detachment with mixed deamons.

[sneakybamsen]

I don't understand how some of you think the power isn't pure trash.

It works just like gaze, has nearly the same expected result as gaze, but it's far harder to cast.

And gaze isn't even a very good spell to begin with.

 

 

As for the rest.

 

We get a trait nobody cares about as it only even works against enemies that has psykers, so rulebook traits are straight out better.

 

The relic is also worthless as of the six doubles possible, on 1 2 and sometimes 3 the spell isn't even cast, on 6 you peril and nobody will ever deny, on 5 hardly anyone would deny either. So on double 4, is the enemy can deny at all, and would have succeeded, it's not denied.

The odds of it doing anything are astronomical low, it won't even trigger once in five games.

 

Then the stratagem, who isn't helping you cast much more than the basic reroll stratagem does, but is far less flexible, comes with strings attached and apperantly is used preemptively rather than reactively, so it's far worse.

 

Overall, we didn't get little we get nothing at all, as there is no reason to bother taking a TS detachment like this over a generic chaos detachment.

 

Hate being so salty on my first post here, but has to be done. Some people here are far too enthusiastic.

 

Unless we are getting more, and of much higher quality, I'll stick to alpha rubrics and getting my ahriman from a chaos detachment with mixed deamons.

 

That clearly sounds like it's based on tournament meta. You might be right, but anyone can see it's better than nothing.

[Archaeinox]

I don't understand how some of you think the power isn't pure trash.

 

I 100% agree with everything you say but I just want to ask if you posted a similar thing on dakka in the chapter approved thread because I think I just read it lol

[BoomWolf]

Well, I have the same username on both forums, makes sense.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Okay so first of all; The warlord trait definitely has its uses because by the time you pick it you've seen your opponents army.  Its "before either side deploys" and as far as I am aware it means you arent locked to one, so for now that "deny" trait is GREAT because you know when to use it and when to not.  Nids? totally using it.  Eldar? yes please.  Necrons? take something else. 

The relics a let down; but quite frankly its free so I wont sneer at it given we will get more in the actual codex (And this may get reworked if GW eventually sees how crappy it is) 

The strategem is fantastic.  I play a pure thousand sons lists, every dang squad has a psyker (barring goats) and often 3 psykers in the HQ slot.  It will see use at least once a game if not more, especially for one attempting warp time or something like it.  Also; use it on Ahriman...he becomes a better caster then Magnus lol 

 

As for my Enthusiasm; I am not pessimistic about my little shiny man-toys, if i get a little bonus in the upcoming book ill keep it in mind for the codex proper. 

Edit for Power missed on initial post;  The power has its uses, the cast value is higher then it should be (sitting at just above a 50% chance to cast, I want to say 55% chance? something like it) but I can see chucking it into weak characters, and again I field so many psykers (and if we are using a CSM allied detachment the Tzeentch "swap power" spell for our baby smites on unit leaders) that I am bound to have extra slots. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Okay so first of all; The warlord trait definitely has its uses because by the time you pick it you've seen your opponents army.  Its "before either side deploys" and as far as I am aware it means you arent locked to one, so for now that "deny" trait is GREAT because you know when to use it and when to not.  Nids? totally using it.  Eldar? yes please.  Necrons? take something else. 

 

The relics a let down; but quite frankly its free so I wont sneer at it given we will get more in the actual codex (And this may get reworked if GW eventually sees how crappy it is) 

 

The strategem is fantastic.  I play a pure thousand sons lists, every dang squad has a psyker (barring goats) and often 3 psykers in the HQ slot.  It will see use at least once a game if not more, especially for one attempting warp time or something like it.  Also; use it on Ahriman...he becomes a better caster then Magnus lol 

 

As for my Enthusiasm; I am not pessimistic about my little shiny man-toys, if i get a little bonus in the upcoming book ill keep it in mind for the codex proper. 

 

 

Also, I believe the relic says that a double can't be denied or negated by any other means, so that would shut down the World Eaters, AdMech, or Black Templar Stratagems (and the rumored Sisters one).

 

As for our stratagem, Magnus is gonna be detonating things with a total +4 to cast. "2D6 every day, bro."

 

With the new stuff, Ahriman or Magnus could easily cast Smite, Gaze, and the new power or Gift of Chaos, for some fairly heavy damage if someone else handled the support power duties. Could be interesting. 

[Raven1]

Im sorry im not going to target a unit i cant normally target just in case i roll a double and on top of that it doesnt seem that useful at all since on a double 1 or 2 you fail anyway and a double 6 you arent likely to get countered anyway so that leaves double 3, 4, and 5. So not only do you have to roll a double but it only matters half the time you roll a double.

 

Re-roll a deny is situational but still useful against psychic heavy enemies.

 

The power...i've ranted enough about the power.

 

+2 to psychic tests are certainly useful and i hope it affects all three like killshot for predators.

[Ahzek451]

I have to agree, I hope this doesn’t set the theme for the of the book. To me, it seems like GW through the years has always gravitated toward gimmicks for thousand sons as far as wargear goes. Sure they sound fun, but when compared to everyone else, they just seem to lack.

 

Warlord trait. Looking forward to more options because I will likely never use that one.

 

Relic. As others have done the math....ugh. Why GW. Couldn’t have been: if you roll a 10 or more on the psy power dice you cannot be denied? Including any bonus modifiers.

 

Psy power. Not worth the Warp charge. Gimmicky again. But not the worst power of all time. Please make sure the rest of our powers are nice.

 

Stratagem: kinda expected this one. Would be happy if the bonus applies to all the Psykers involved.

 

Long sort short: hope GW is messing with us by presenting some of the worst options.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Okay gents lets put the breaks on the loss of hope just for a moment and go at this logically; 

These options are sub-par as of the moment true, or perhaps we are lacking in context given some of these options.  However; Lets assume that GW has a "formula" they use for various codexs, which as of this moment I am inclined to believe based upon the "matching" or "clone" strategems sitting directly in front of me. 

 

I have here the Death Guard and Chaos Space Marine Codexs; and currently I count a total of EIGHT stratagems that are direct "clones" from the death guard book. thats right; 8 out of the death guards total 14 Strategems are clones in some form or another (renamed for the putrescent themes as it were)  

 

The "swap spell" strategem has become nurgle themed. 
Vets of the Long War, Blasphemous Machines, and Kill shot are all in appearance, as well are fire frenzy for brutes, as well as the "more relics" strategem.

Its a safe bet to assume we will receive all of these, and I would bet my entire army we will obviously get the "cast extra spell" stratagem. There are 6 stratagems in the Death Guard  book which are "unique" to them requiring a death guard unit (nurgles rot, putrid detonation, cloud of flies, Blight bombardment, plauge pact, the dead walk again) being what i am referring to.  I would presume we will get ones such as these but for Rubric or Tzaangor or Sorcerer units.  Or something equivocal. including a "Tzeentch daemon summoning" since the "plauge pact" rule is just the Word Bearers summoning rule in all but name. 

and of course we will be getting SIX warlord traits and SIX relics when the book actually hits the market, It seems like for chapter approved the rules team said "why dont we give them something "magicy" for their stuff to tide them over!" without realizing the limitations it places in competitive metas, I dont have any concerns for those strategems regarding the full book as it looks like the design philosophy will of course carry over. 

Gents; We will be fine.  Once our book is out we will perform just fine. My personal bet is we will be solid mid or upper mid tier army and will perform just fine once our full codex is out; anything we get aside from the above aforementioned material (models and units entries) is a huge bonus IMO. 

[Nym]

as well are fire frenzy for brutes

I'm not sure we'll get this one, because I think that we may lose access to regular Helbrutes.

 

Helbrutes for Thousand Sons make no sense. They're fleshy Dreadnoughts with a crazed Chaos Space Marine in them. But all of our regular Marines are dust...

 

The only way for us to have "Helbrutes" would be : sealed dreadnought with a dust bunny inside (Contemptor ?) or fleshy mutated dreadnought with a PSYKER inside. None of these options are reflected in the actual "Helbrute".

 

That's why I have high hopes concerning a new Dreadnought kit. :)

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

as well are fire frenzy for brutes

I'm not sure we'll get this one, because I think that we may lose access to regular Helbrutes.

 

Helbrutes for Thousand Sons make no sense. They're fleshy Dreadnoughts with a crazed Chaos Space Marine in them. But all of our regular Marines are dust...

 

The only way for us to have "Helbrutes" would be : sealed dreadnought with a dust bunny inside (Contemptor ?) or fleshy mutated dreadnought with a PSYKER inside. None of these options are reflected in the actual "Helbrute".

 

That's why I have high hopes concerning a new Dreadnought kit.

 

 

Hey if it happens im right there with ya; fluff wise your 110% correct. I hope there is a new dread kit.  With death guard getting SO MANY kits I will be shocked if we dont get at LEAST 1. 

[Ahzek451]

I do hope they do something about helbrutes. They make no sense with the fleshy parts. If they went away as an option and replaced it with a new kit that would be awesome.

[BoomWolf]

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

I wouldn't BET on a single new model.

Simple reason, never, in the history of 40k, was tzeentch on of the "loved" gods of chaos in terms of attention, it was always khorne and nurgle.

And given that khorne didn't get attention lately, I'd see him get stuff before we do.

 

 

Yes, our helbrutes make exactly zero sense. but so does many things in many codcies.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

I wouldn't BET on a single new model.

Simple reason, never, in the history of 40k, was tzeentch on of the "loved" gods of chaos in terms of attention, it was always khorne and nurgle.

And given that khorne didn't get attention lately, I'd see him get stuff before we do.

 

 

Yes, our helbrutes make exactly zero sense. but so does many things in many codcies.

 

Short memory have we?  

 

Christmas last year we had a huge Thousand Sons (Wrath of Magnus) release followed by a Tzeentch arcanists book for AOS and a Lord of Change as well as a brimstones/blues box, re-release of changeling in plastic.  Id say we hit our "attention" last year and early this year pretty dang well IMO. Great number of releases that are all tzeentch themed. Thousand Sons got 6 kits and Daemons got an additional 7 or so (if we are counting Tzaangors amongst that number for AOS as well) 

 

Its all but confirmed Khorne is coming next year (reliable rumor monger happened to say it so thats a thing) so I wont be shocked if thousand sons get another couple of kits to even up the release cycle, but then again I wont be shocked if we get nothing either.  Both are totally feasible. 

[Paladin777]

I would be rather surprised if we got nothing to fill a FA slot. Currently we have only spawn and that’s IT! We currently have at least a couple of good options (if a bit vanilla in some cases) to fill every other slot that could be mandatory in any detachments.

[BoomWolf]

Its not short memory, its saying that we probably already got all we are going to get and I doubt there is any more on the near horizon.

It WOULD make sense in the terms of "why didn't we get a codex" department if we are getting more models, but I honestly doubt Tzeentch is getting more attention that he already has with the Wrath of Magnus release (BTW I got collector's edition number 0014 here. a shame half of it because worthless soon after, but it was too beautiful not to.)

 

Yes, we got no FA besides spawn-but what CAN we get to fit the bill?

Them disk-riding tzzangor things from AoS with an added sprue for 40k guns? boring.

Ammitara scouts? they are not in PA, and didn't even get a HH model, no way in hell.

Khenetai don't fit the post-rubric feel of slow lumbering automatons. highly unlikely.

 

I'd be happy to be wrong, but I am not holding my breath.

The biggest issue, is the fact the exalted sorcerer kit exists.

The fact the kit creates a huge array of looks, but they are all labeled as one unit, makes it highly unlikely we would ever get the huge swat of unique elite characters the DG has.

[Ahzek451]

With the delay of the codex and serious lack of codex options compared to death guard, I would bet on AT LEAST one kit. GW already hinted recently that the t.sons will be getting something big on a Facebook post(something along those lines). It’s a stand alone faction, and while yes the daemons got a lot of love(once again comparing death guard codex), the death guard codex doesn’t feature every Nurgle daemon, and we probably won’t either. Leaving still, a rather sparse codex. So there’s a good chance at something. They even managed to spit out New primaris specific dark and blood angel models with the upcoming codex’s. So let’s see. A codex delay is good news.

[Zodd1888]

Points increases on Exalted Sorcerers. Brutal.

 

Edit: I realize this must mean something must justify this. I just wish we didnt have to wait months to find out.

[Raven1]

Points increases on Exalted Sorcerers. Brutal.

 

Edit: I realize this must mean something must justify this. I just wish we didnt have to wait months to find out.

Clearly too good and being spammed. Just another reason to pass them up and take Ahriman or a demonprince.

[Archaeinox]

 

 

Points increases on Exalted Sorcerers. Brutal.

 

Yeah my 4 are really keeping me losing too much, they need a points increase for sure mang

[BoomWolf]

Eeerm, guys?

 

this time you are being salty over nothing. the exalted did not get an increase, it just matches the FAQ.

Yaknow, back from when the exalted in the index were for some reason cheaper than the regular sorcerers.

 

you guys WERE using the FAQ, right?

[Sonoftherubric21]

I was about to ask; "am i the ONLY person who used the FAQ points cost update the last 3 months???" 

[Archaeinox]

Yeah lmao its still the same.

 

The force weapon changes and predator autocannon help me a lot. interested to see what our other stratagem is

[Paladin777]

I know that the points for the exalted has been there since the faq, but I think they really need to give them something in the codex. I haven’t felt any reason to field them over Ahriman and/or a deamon prince, or even a regular sorc for that matter.