New releases for Dark Angels

[Madmonkeyman]

Lieutenants let ravenwing ignore cover as well. That's pretty good

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I can't wait to get my hands on the codex. It looks like made of win!

[Allart01]

Can't tell you why, but I suspect that they are very subtly trying to suggest that maybe we should buy Hellblasters.

[G8Keeper]

Can't tell you why, but I suspect that they are very subtly trying to suggest that maybe we should buy Hellblasters.

It's got me sorely tempted along with a couple more speeders and I now actually don't feel like I wasted my well earned cash on black Knights

[Chaplain Raeven]

Can't tell you why, but I suspect that they are very subtly trying to suggest that maybe we should buy Hellblasters.

 

Wasted effort, I was going to buy those guys for their looks already!

[Syphid]

I can't decide what variant of Hellblaster to use...  Backfied with the Heavy Incincerator and Grim Resolve, or running around with the Assault version buffed by a Master/Lieutenant with Lion's Roar. 

[Komodo]

 

 

Looks like no Lieutenants for Deathwing

If it wasn't mentioned, doesn't mean we have none. With that logic we don't get anything not mentioned in the article.

 

RW lieutenants are awesome. Instead of 1 Sammael on speeder, we can get two and a sammael on jetbike. Gotta paint Sammy and them land speeders.

 

Boy oh boy, It's a tough choice. Black knights are awesome now, as well as hellblasters, these guys will obliterate the living hell with S-9 shots with rerolls of 1.

 

Uber dakka-speeders support other speeders making them deadly as hell.

 

I'm so hyped right now!

Where do you see S9 shots, the strategem is +1 damage...way better imo.

 

You're right, I was so hyped I was not paying enough attention and rushing things :)

 

On the other note -- Hellblasters will be pure beasts. Could not decide -- paint 10 hellblasters or paint two 3-man squads of black knights :)

 

Let's see what "deathwing" and "inner circle" will bring us. 

[Helycon]

 

 

Looks like no Lieutenants for Deathwing

If it wasn't mentioned, doesn't mean we have none. With that logic we don't get anything not mentioned in the article.

 

RW lieutenants are awesome. Instead of 1 Sammael on speeder, we can get two and a sammael on jetbike. Gotta paint Sammy and them land speeders.

 

Boy oh boy, It's a tough choice. Black knights are awesome now, as well as hellblasters, these guys will obliterate the living hell with S-9 shots with rerolls of 1.

 

Uber dakka-speeders support other speeders making them deadly as hell.

 

I'm so hyped right now!

Where do you see S9 shots, the strategem is +1 damage...way better imo.

 

Heavy Plasma Incinerators on Hellblasters are S9 when you overcharge them, where normal plasma is indeed S8 when you overcharge (and yes, the assault version for HB is S7 when overcharged, I know ;) ). Add to that the 3D when overcharging, and you're wreaking havoc. 

 

Also, the smart person telling us Grim Resolve is NOT a chapter tactic that just affects Infantery, Bikes and Dreads, kuddo's. I did not notice until you mentioned this...! Could potentially be if this were to work on tanks. 

[rendingon1+]

Can't wait to mark Guilliman with Hunt the Fallen hahaha. And it's so fluffy BTW.

[Solrac]

For those of you saying Grim Resolve is bad or ok you need ot look at it in a different light and in a different way you have currently been playing.

 

Every infantry unit being able to re-roll 1s when they don't move means you will save points on not having to have a Company Master around. For those that run a list centred around Azrael all those lists have a castle element surrounding Azrael but you still have to have other units that might not be around him (e.g scouts, objective grabbers etc). Also you have back up if your characters die if they are out of position.

 

Grim resolve makes grabbing and then defending objectives that much better as you don't really want to move when you are there. Instead of having a few Company Masters in your force you take Lieutenants instead and now the damage output of your force is even better having more re-roll 1s to wound to complement everyone having re-roll 1s to hit. 

 

Defensively Grim resolve is also great and I'm not just talking re-roll 1s in overwatch. I'm talking about Pistols in combat. Your units that are locked in combat never move in the movement phase so they will always get re-roll 1s to hit when firing into units in combat. This makes taking Plasma pistols even more tasty or Reivers with their S5 -1 pistols.

 

Lastly only ever losing maximum 1 model in morale means we can go back to taking 10 man squads. Why would we do that? Sure for tac squads or scouts squads maybe not but what about a 10 man squad of Hellblasters that are riding in a Repulsor. That's 20 shots at 15". Double down the damage with the +1D stratagem to Plasma Weapons which means you can overcharge for 3D or not risk losing models and still do 2D with the standard profile. Got an apothecary nearby? Great! Bring models back. Got an Ancient nearby? Neato! you might be able to shoot once more before you die at the boosted profile because its still in the same phase when your hellblaster burns himself.

 

I think it's a great Chapter Tactic to have. Sure you may have to use a turn to get into position, so what? there many more turns in the game for you to make use of Grim Resolve and it doesn't cost you a thing.

[Trunkello]

Can't wait to mark Guilliman with Hunt the Fallen hahaha. And it's so fluffy BTW.

You cant. Its just for infantry characters. Guilliman is a monster.

[Saphrael]

Here are my typically negative reactions including my assessment of whether I will use.

 

1. Grim Resolve - mid level chapter trait. Not moving to gain re-rolls isn't ideal (and practically useless for DW and RW) and morale bonuses are worthless. Will see some use, even if it encourages static play.

2. Weapons from the Dark Age - extra damage for plasma is awesome. No complaints about this, will see a lot of lists being updated to include plasma death units. Will see use.

3. Hunt the Fallen - Fluffy and cool. Could see use to try to get Turn 1 DW charges off against key characters, but is easily mitigated via bubble wrap. Likely won't see use.

4. Fortress of Shields - 1 CP to make DWKs a little tougher or a turn probably isn't worth it. Might see some use, but probably too niche to be remembered.

5. Inner Circle - Fluffy, but without knowing what the Deathwing or Inner Circle rules do it's hard to comment. If they're the same as the index then there's no reason to take this for dreads or land raiders and if you wanted it for your company master you'd just buy a RW or DW one. Won't see use

6. RW Lieutenants - very glad they're being added, DW and RW desperately need LTs, but my read of the wording is that DW won't get LTs. However, it looks like it means I won't be able to use my heavily converted Sammael Land Speeder anymore which is a real bummer. Will definitely see use.

7. Huntsmen - allowing my warlord to shoot characters and get closer with heroic intervention is too niche, why would I ever take this warlord trait over the others? DA characters don't get good shooting weapons anyway. Won't see use.

8. Lion's Roar - a plasma relic that still outright kills the character on a (admittedly re-rolled) 1, no way. Would never use my relic slot to take this. Won't see use

9. Brilliant Strategist - Pretty good. Essentially counts as a free RR stratagem and gives you a chance to get an extra ~1-2 CPs per game. Will see use

10. Mind Wipe - Warp charge 7 to give you a less than 50% chance of reducing WS, BS and Ld? Forget it. Won't see use

11. Trephination - Warp charge 7 to give you a 28% chance of dealing 1+ mortal wounds to your average Ld unit. Likely won't see use

[RayJ]

 

6. RW Lieutenants - very glad they're being added, DW and RW desperately need LTs, but my read of the wording is that DW won't get LTs. However, it looks like it means I won't be able to use my heavily converted Sammael Land Speeder anymore which is a real bummer. Will definitely see use.

 

You can still use all units that are in the index. Sableclaw just got some riding buddies though.

[rendingon1+]

 

Can't wait to mark Guilliman with Hunt the Fallen hahaha. And it's so fluffy BTW.

You cant. Its just for infantry characters. Guilliman is a monster.

Damn it. you're right.

[Helycon]

 

Here are my typically negative reactions including my assessment of whether I will use.

 

1. Grim Resolve - mid level chapter trait. Not moving to gain re-rolls isn't ideal (and practically useless for DW and RW) and morale bonuses are worthless. Will see some use, even if it encourages static play.

2. Weapons from the Dark Age - extra damage for plasma is awesome. No complaints about this, will see a lot of lists being updated to include plasma death units. Will see use.

3. Hunt the Fallen - Fluffy and cool. Could see use to try to get Turn 1 DW charges off against key characters, but is easily mitigated via bubble wrap. Likely won't see use.

4. Fortress of Shields - 1 CP to make DWKs a little tougher or a turn probably isn't worth it. Might see some use, but probably too niche to be remembered.

5. Inner Circle - Fluffy, but without knowing what the Deathwing or Inner Circle rules do it's hard to comment. If they're the same as the index then there's no reason to take this for dreads or land raiders and if you wanted it for your company master you'd just buy a RW or DW one. Won't see use

6. RW Lieutenants - very glad they're being added, DW and RW desperately need LTs, but my read of the wording is that DW won't get LTs. However, it looks like it means I won't be able to use my heavily converted Sammael Land Speeder anymore which is a real bummer. Will definitely see use.

7. Huntsmen - allowing my warlord to shoot characters and get closer with heroic intervention is too niche, why would I ever take this warlord trait over the others? DA characters don't get good shooting weapons anyway. Won't see use.

8. Lion's Roar - a plasma relic that still outright kills the character on a (admittedly re-rolled) 1, no way. Would never use my relic slot to take this. Won't see use

9. Brilliant Strategist - Pretty good. Essentially counts as a free RR stratagem and gives you a chance to get an extra ~1-2 CPs per game. Will see use

10. Mind Wipe - Warp charge 7 to give you a less than 50% chance of reducing WS, BS and Ld? Forget it. Won't see use

11. Trephination - Warp charge 7 to give you a 28% chance of dealing 1+ mortal wounds to your average Ld unit. Likely won't see use

 

4. Doesn't only work on DWK, but also on DWT that have Storm shields. Why you'd have those is beyond me, but hey ;)

5. Let's wait what Inner Circle does before you're not going to use it.

7. There was a comment about a servo harness Techmarine on Bike that could do some serious damage. Maybe a combi melta could be nice too. Odd choice, but it's a nasty sniper combination that can negate re-roll bubbles of your opponent relies on them. 

8. Or...you could not overcharge it and NOT kill yourself. People ALWAYS seem to forget that it's an option. It's assault 2 as well on the plasma-component, meaning you can more easily close in or keep up with other stuff.

10. I'ts actually pretty massive. Dropping characters that way is nasty, and since it can't affect you. it's painful when it happens. It doesn't need to target characters only, but also works on a Wraithknight. If it succeeds, you're crippling it. Also, a successive hit will cripple it more easily and even more. An Integrrogator Chaplain also helps, since it's a Ld modifier.

11. Don't forget we have some options to drop Ld characteristics with an Interrogator, as stated above. Against horde armies, this can murder some chaff. Not the strongest to be fair, but not useless. We'll have to wait and see what power 6 is before we comment properly.

[Elios Harg]

Here are my typically negative reactions including my assessment of whether I will use.

 

1. Grim Resolve - mid level chapter trait. Not moving to gain re-rolls isn't ideal (and practically useless for DW and RW) and morale bonuses are worthless. Will see some use, even if it encourages static play.

2. Weapons from the Dark Age - extra damage for plasma is awesome. No complaints about this, will see a lot of lists being updated to include plasma death units. Will see use.

3. Hunt the Fallen - Fluffy and cool. Could see use to try to get Turn 1 DW charges off against key characters, but is easily mitigated via bubble wrap. Likely won't see use.

4. Fortress of Shields - 1 CP to make DWKs a little tougher or a turn probably isn't worth it. Might see some use, but probably too niche to be remembered.

5. Inner Circle - Fluffy, but without knowing what the Deathwing or Inner Circle rules do it's hard to comment. If they're the same as the index then there's no reason to take this for dreads or land raiders and if you wanted it for your company master you'd just buy a RW or DW one. Won't see use

6. RW Lieutenants - very glad they're being added, DW and RW desperately need LTs, but my read of the wording is that DW won't get LTs. However, it looks like it means I won't be able to use my heavily converted Sammael Land Speeder anymore which is a real bummer. Will definitely see use.

7. Huntsmen - allowing my warlord to shoot characters and get closer with heroic intervention is too niche, why would I ever take this warlord trait over the others? DA characters don't get good shooting weapons anyway. Won't see use.

8. Lion's Roar - a plasma relic that still outright kills the character on a (admittedly re-rolled) 1, no way. Would never use my relic slot to take this. Won't see use

9. Brilliant Strategist - Pretty good. Essentially counts as a free RR stratagem and gives you a chance to get an extra ~1-2 CPs per game. Will see use

10. Mind Wipe - Warp charge 7 to give you a less than 50% chance of reducing WS, BS and Ld? Forget it. Won't see use

11. Trephination - Warp charge 7 to give you a 28% chance of dealing 1+ mortal wounds to your average Ld unit. Likely won't see use

Grim Resolve - unfortunately, it seems this may be better than we think at first because the article seems to imply Deathwing are losing Fearless.

 

Weapons from the Dark Age - Agreed. Completely awesome. Hellblasters, Inceptors, Black Knights, and Plasma Devs all just got much better. Especially combined with Grim Resolve (for hellblasters and Devs) and access to Lieutenants.

 

Hunt the Fallen - This depends a lot on when the game "starts". Is this after deployment? If so, the value is far better. Big note: bubble wrap does not necessarily help against this. If I can land within 12" of the mark, then I can declare a multi-charge even if I cannot realistically make it to the character and it will help me get a charge off.

 

Inner Circle - I am guessing Venerables already have this. This means we can use it to make Contemptor and others Deathwing. That allows the Banner and Belial to affect them if nothing else. Same with Land Raiders, Belial can now give them re-rolls. We will see what happens with Inner Circle vs. Unforgiven. Oh it also means these units benefit from Hunt the Fallen.

Talonmasters - These seem so freaking awesome. I expect them to be pricy. Hopefully, DW will get some as well. Sam in Sable Claw will remain accessible from the Index even if not in the book.

 

 

Huntsman - Agreed. I just don't see many times that I would take this over Brilliant Strategist.

 

 

Lion's Roar - not bad in a vacuum. However, there is no way we won't get better relics to pick (Sacred Standards?). So yeah, I agree.

 

Brilliant Strategist - Will probably be the most commonly used trait (and likely is pre-assigned to Azrael).

 

Psychic Powers - Zero reason to use these over Aversion and Engulfing Fear or Smite.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Elios Harg

[Syphid]

Dim looking forward to Librarian + Reiver leadership shennanigans Edited December 4, 2017 by Syphid

[Ishagu]

Do not underestimate the grim resolve leadership buff. This is actually excellent.

 

Because of some of the awesome stratagems, you'll want large units. It will come into play more than you think.

 

For my Ultras, they can leave combat and shoot with a negative modifier and gain +1 leadership.

That leadership buff is actually the more useful bonus!

Edited December 4, 2017 by Ishagu

[Saphrael]

 

4. Doesn't only work on DWK, but also on DWT that have Storm shields. Why you'd have those is beyond me, but hey

 

5. Let's wait what Inner Circle does before you're not going to use it.

7. There was a comment about a servo harness Techmarine on Bike that could do some serious damage. Maybe a combi melta could be nice too. Odd choice, but it's a nasty sniper combination that can negate re-roll bubbles of your opponent relies on them. 

8. Or...you could not overcharge it and NOT kill yourself. People ALWAYS seem to forget that it's an option. It's assault 2 as well on the plasma-component, meaning you can more easily close in or keep up with other stuff.

10. I'ts actually pretty massive. Dropping characters that way is nasty, and since it can't affect you. it's painful when it happens. It doesn't need to target characters only, but also works on a Wraithknight. If it succeeds, you're crippling it. Also, a successive hit will cripple it more easily and even more. An Integrrogator Chaplain also helps, since it's a Ld modifier.

11. Don't forget we have some options to drop Ld characteristics with an Interrogator, as stated above. Against horde armies, this can murder some chaff. Not the strongest to be fair, but not useless. We'll have to wait and see what power 6 is before we comment properly.

 

4. Yeah exactly. I know it works on all termies, but who takes squads of SS+TH DW?

5. As I said it's hard to comment without knowing the specifics. I'm assuming some combination of Fearless and re-rolls against Fallen. Pretty underwhelming on vehicles...

7. I saw that and it would be a decent enough build, even if it feels weird to build a techmarine warlord to get this setup.

8. I didn't forget that, but if you're not overcharging it you've essentially got a 2 shot plasma gun as your relic? I'm assuming we're going to get some sacred standards and cool swords as relics (well, we better), so I can't see this ever being taken. Waste.

10. It really, really isn't. IF you have equal leadership with your target you only have a 24% of affecting the target and that's before your opponent trys to Deny if they can. All of that to reduce WS, BS and Ld by 1? Why on earth would I try this instead of Aversion or Mind Worm?

11. Sure, but that's needing to line up a number of different things in order to get the most out of the power. The more moving parts the less likely it is to occur. I'm looking forward to seeing the sixth power as well, but so far I'm can't see myself taking either of these new powers instead of what's in the index. 

[Syphid]

I was thinking that 3 TH&SS terminators in a 10 man unit could be an assault deterrent... improved overwatch with Grim Resolve, and then Fortrees of Shields could take the edge off an assault before you get to hit back.

[Saphrael]

Sure, you could make a bit of an assault deterrent or mid-field roadblock with that, but a 10 man DW squad with 3 x TH&SS and 2 x CML is currently 521 points and is a massive footprint so hard to be able to focus its damage output.

 

I think there are much better ways to spend ~25% of your points in a standard game.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Yeah, my biggest gripe regarding the released info is our psychic powers. They're waaaaay too unreliable. It reminds me of old 4th ed Mind Worm: seemed good, but almost never happened. 

[StormLion]

So, I'm reading Grim Resolve as it gives the buff to every unit in my army. Agree? If so, does anyone else get warm feelings about a Repulsor re-rolling 1s? Even more so, when its backed up by Redemptors re-rolling 1s? (Yea, I am Primaris). Finally, depending on the Inner Circle keyword, do people think it can be used more than once, I mean can we induct more than one unit into the DW/Inner Circle?

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

I was thinking that 3 TH&SS terminators in a 10 man unit could be an assault deterrent... improved overwatch with Grim Resolve, and then Fortrees of Shields could take the edge off an assault before you get to hit back.

 

Your Terminators aren't going to die to assault, they'll die to the D2 shooting that is all over the game.  Even autocannons make terminators cry.

 

 

So, I'm reading Grim Resolve as it gives the buff to every unit in my army. Agree? If so, does anyone else get warm feelings about a Repulsor re-rolling 1s? Even more so, when its backed up by Redemptors re-rolling 1s? (Yea, I am Primaris). Finally, depending on the Inner Circle keyword, do people think it can be used more than once, I mean can we induct more than one unit into the DW/Inner Circle?

 

I highly doubt they will expand the trait to non-infantry/non-Dreads. They did the same thing with the Blood Angels reveal, and it only applied to infantry/Dreads. Unfortunately, SMs continue to get the short end of the stick on traits for little discernible reason. Eldar and IG get army wide buffs (minus -2 to hit Wave Serpents are my favorite...) while a Salamanders LR Redeemer is exactly the same as an Ultras one, and a Raved Guard LS Storm is exactly the same as a IF one.

 

I hope it's not so, but I highly doubt it.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Brother-Captain Sharp

[Orkinstein]

I don't think the lion and the wolf is that bad. There are some good combos between DA and SW.

 

DA has psychic power Aversion: target unit has -1 to hit. And Mind Wipe: target model subtract 1 from WS, BS and Ld.

DA has Darkshroud: enemy unit's shooting -1 to hit DA units within 6" of it

SW has psychic power Tempest's Wrath: target unit has -1 to hit.

 

It is easy to make a Baneblade cannot hit any thing. (heavy flamer still hit...)

 

If you have a Interrogator-Chaplain as your warlord with Inspiring Leader warlord trait combined with the lion and the wolf and a Company Ancient, you will get a LD 12 bubble. A Librarian with LD 12 will have high possibility to cost Mind Wipe successfully. And we also have many things can reduce enemy's LD.

 

A SW Rune Priest with some wolf scouts with special weapons and can DS to any table edge will be a solid ally.  The new SW stratagem also allow you to setup a SW infantry within 6" of table edge. It will be useful to deliver slow PSM squads, for example, a HELLBLASTER SQUAD!