New releases for Dark Angels

[ValourousHeart]

I'm a little torn on the RW Lieutenants.

I don't like the lose of Sableclaw, but the rules for the Lieutenants sound amazing.

Plus I always was curious about how the leadership of the RW was organized.

 

I can't wait to get the codex.

[RayJ]

Why does everyone keep saying we lost Sableclaw? It's still in the index...

[Cpt_Reaper]

Why does everyone keep saying we lost Sableclaw? It's still in the index...

If they are like me, they are preparing for when the Indexes are no longer legal to use.

[Raychu]

 

I can't wait to get the codex.

 

just like everybody else here...

[SnakeChisler]

In terms of impact on Deathwing its next to zero the only Terminator unit I've stuck with has been Deathwing Knights (and that's more out of fondness for the models) as has been pointed out terminators in general get hosed down by double damage weapons and I hate to point this out but Dark Angels with fueled up plasma are going to be one of the chief culprits with the new stratagem and grim resolve.

 

3 damage will wipe a paladin and quite a few ad-mech models in 1 shot.

 

I fielded Azreal with some Hellblasters & a couple of Vindicators at the weekend and i was pleasantly surprised at how well they did, being able to supercharge rapid 2 plasma to -4 3 damage is gonna make a lot of people cry.

 

The combo of the DarkShroud and Aversion is hugely powerful unless your taking Ezekiel your not going to stray much past Aversion & Mind Worm, to get any juice out of the new powers given their casting value you'd need multiple psykers and a bucket of command points. Just about everything can muster up leadership 7 so Trephination V Smite one is a 5 to cast the other 7? The one thing we haven't seen is any buffs to casting, mind wipe is pretty toned down to what it was but its probably my 3rd power choice for the big Z and well worth burning a command re-roll on to get it off.

 

With grim resolve & leadership there's actually quite a bit of stuff out there that can manipulate it we've touched on it in this thread with Reivers and Aura of Dread.

 

What would get Deathwing & Ravenwing rocking again would be a points drop but I can't see much movement given chapter approved has just dropped and we share common units with SM so it looks like the speeders will stay in the display cabinet

 

OK so i'm off now to build me some more plasma devs and paint my inceptors

[o8oo Anarch]

If RW lieutenants only get LS and not bikes, doesn't that make them targetable despite being characters unlike all other lieutenants?

[Helycon]

Depends on the rules. They did so for Sammael, even if he did have less than 10 wound. If they don't add that in, they'll be untargetable.

[rendingon1+]

If RW lieutenants only get LS and not bikes, doesn't that make them targetable despite being characters unlike all other lieutenants?

Good point. If they are "just" land speeders I'am afraid they will not see much use. There's also an issue of price - I wonder how much will the cost: land speeder + additional weapons + special rules. I think they might cost quite a lot of points.

[SnakeChisler]

just a thought to warm you on this chilly evening plasma incinerators went down in price making a 18 shot plasma inceptor squad just under 180.

 

with extra damage and overcharge thats ooo lots of dakka :)

[Helycon]

just a thought to warm you on this chilly evening plasma incinerators went down in price making a 18 shot plasma inceptor squad just under 180.

 

with extra damage and overcharge thats ooo lots of dakka :)

Or a 6 shot plasma, if you roll terribly. You need to declare the stratagem before doing anything with the unit. Also, Grim Resolve is going to be difficult to pull off with the short range, and deepstriking counting as having moved. Overcharging could kill an Inceptor relatively easy.

I'd stick with the safer Hellblasters.

[Lion El Jason]

Depends on the rules. They did so for Sammael, even if he did have less than 10 wound. If they don't add that in, they'll be untargetable.

 

I think its pretty obvious now that Sammael should never have had that rule, there is no reason for it, its just a holdover from whoever it is in the studio that hates DA so fiercely ;)   

I hope it won't be in the codex for Talonmasters.

[JJD]

 

If RW lieutenants only get LS and not bikes, doesn't that make them targetable despite being characters unlike all other lieutenants?

 

Good point. If they are "just" land speeders I'am afraid they will not see much use. There's also an issue of price - I wonder how much will the cost: land speeder + additional weapons + special rules. I think they might cost quite a lot of points.

I’ve been listening to the forge the narrative Blood Angel codex review and they noted librarian dreadnaughts are also characters so there is hope.

[RayJ]

 

I think its pretty obvious now that Sammael should never have had that rule, there is no reason for it, its just a holdover from whoever it is in the studio that hates DA so fiercely    

I hope it won't be in the codex for Talonmasters.

 

 

Is it still JJ?

[Elios Harg]

 

 

If RW lieutenants only get LS and not bikes, doesn't that make them targetable despite being characters unlike all other lieutenants?

Good point. If they are "just" land speeders I'am afraid they will not see much use. There's also an issue of price - I wonder how much will the cost: land speeder + additional weapons + special rules. I think they might cost quite a lot of points.

Well TL assault cannons plus TL heavy bolsters are 61 points alone. That is before adding the cost of the speeder and whatever the special rules are worth (oh and then the sword).

[Syphid]

I actually wouldn't mind picking up a patrol of Space Wolves for the Lion and the Wolf strategem... it would work nicely with my snow theme army!

[SnakeChisler]

 

just a thought to warm you on this chilly evening plasma incinerators went down in price making a 18 shot plasma inceptor squad just under 180.

 

with extra damage and overcharge thats ooo lots of dakka

Or a 6 shot plasma, if you roll terribly. You need to declare the stratagem before doing anything with the unit. Also, Grim Resolve is going to be difficult to pull off with the short range, and deepstriking counting as having moved. Overcharging could kill an Inceptor relatively easy.

I'd stick with the safer Hellblasters.

 

Your Range is 18" they DS and Sammael is fast enough to zip around and give them re-roll 1's

 

These sort of tactics are as well as hellblasters not instead of and you'd need multiple units probably 1 plasma & at least 1 bolter unit if not 2 

 

Stuff dies anyway

[Ishagu]

Inceptors are amazing. Plasma variant unit is only 12 points more than a basic Hellblaster squad but has deepstrike, jump packs, better optimum range and more shots on average.

[Trunkello]

Inceptors are amazing. Plasma variant unit is only 12 points more than a basic Hellblaster squad but has deepstrike, jump packs, better optimum range and more shots on average.

Yes but they have fewer wounds and models, are dangerously open to charge and fire and are propbly without cover.

[Ishagu]

But they WILL shoot before they ever get shot at. And they are toughness 5.

Definitely worth the investment, especially as DA have fast moving units that can catch up with them.

[shabbadoo]

The relic combi-plasma is, once again, able to be fired by its owner who can also then charge.

 

And so Azrael's combi-plasma will, of course, be rapid-fire so he can NOT charge after firing it. It is totally gonna happen.  AGAIN.  I'm calling it now! Any takers on the over-under? 

 

Looking forward to seeing the table of contents so that I know which "new" units we will now be able to take other than those already mentioned (Tartaros/Cataphracti termies, RW Lieutenants, Hunter/Stalker, Primaris units).

 

 

Inceptors are amazing. Plasma variant unit is only 12 points more than a basic Hellblaster squad but has deepstrike, jump packs, better optimum range and more shots on average.

Yes but they have fewer wounds and models, are dangerously open to charge and fire and are propably without cover.

Deepstriking units can be placed in/behind cover, at their extreme range. If somebody doesn't want to do that for some reason, or they are playing using almost no terrain, you would sort of have a point. One can not compare how each unit will perform in such a general manner anyways, as their performance is dependent upon the circumstances at hand. Hitting the enemy when you want to, where you want to, has its own inherent value. So does a more static unit with more wounds and better range. Apples and oranges here.

[Trunkello]

But they WILL shoot before they ever get shot at. And they are toughness 5.

Definitely worth the investment, especially as DA have fast moving units that can catch up with them.

True. I didnt consider that. We can expect that the enemy will concentrate fire on the plasma units before we can use the strategem.

[rendingon1+]

The relic combi-plasma is, once again, able to be fired by its owner who can also then charge.

How?

[Berzul]

 

The relic combi-plasma is, once again, able to be fired by its owner who can also then charge.

How?

 

 

I was of the idea that, in this edition, you can charge after firing any weapon. Assault just allows you to fire after Advancing, which in turn bans you from charging. Or am I wrong?

[Normal Norman]

I have been doing some Mathshammer on the difference between Plasma Devs and Hellblasters. I have assumed that the unit has stood still (for the reroll) and overcharged. I have only applied the stratagem for +1 damage when comparing against the Leman Russ. I have not compared Assault Plasma Incinerators however because they they are not best used as backfield fire support.

 

A units of Devs with 4 Plasma Cannons will do 4.3 casualties to Meq, 3.5 casualties to Teq and 7.8 wounds to a Leman Russ (Leq).

 

A unit of 5 Hellblasters with Heavy Plasma Incinerators will do 3.2 casualties to Meq, 2.2 casualties to Teq and 7.8 wounds to Leq.

 

Excepting robustness, a Dev Squad beats out HPIs in every metric for 26 points less. Although when targeting Meq the HPIs would not need to overcharge and risk dying.

 

Regular Plasma Incinerators are a little different. Out of rapid fire range PIs do 3.2 casualties to Meq, 2.2 casualties to Teq and 5.8 to Leq. These numbers will double in rapid fire range.

 

When comparing points per casulty / points per wound, Devs are about 50% more efficient from 16” to 36” and Hellblasters are 35% more efficient at 15” or less.

 

The toss up between Devs and Hellblasters then comes down to whether your enemy is likely to close in with your lines or not.

 

There are some factors that I have not taken into account. Namely the Devs access to Signums and Cherubs and the Hellblasters additional wound.

 

I will personally be sticking with Devs through the simple expedient of having at least 8 from various sources such as Dark Vengeance boxes and Dev boxes. I would have to buy the Hellblasters.

[Stoic Raptor]

Well, you can't dismiss "excepting robustness" and still talke about Meq - because surely your opponent is dishing out the same.

That "robustness" metric means your Hellblasters can take twice the punishment compared to Devastators.

 

Sure, there are advantages to each, but it's not as simple as just "dps".