Leif Bearclaw Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 So I'd prefer something new like SW vs Black Legion A bit like Russ or the legion finishing the job that Russ didn't accomplish in Wolfsbane (strike the head from the serpent, only this time it is Abaddon instead of Horus). That would be terrible imo. Because nothing would come of it. GW aren't going to kill off Abby, so a Black Legion showdown is only going to further Worf the Wolves/Russ, which I'm just so tired of by now. Why not an actual, no caveat, no 'actually the bad guys achieved X' or 'losses are so heavy it's pyrrhic', honest to gods win for a change? Is 'tries to kill Abby-sue, but screws up, just like he did with Horus ( Wolfsbane, so, so much)' really the return for Russ people have been anticipating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 A failed hunt for Abaddon, but smashing the black legion or halting te black crusade would be much better than Armagaeedon round 4 and Thousand Sons Again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 So I'd prefer something new like SW vs Black Legion A bit like Russ or the legion finishing the job that Russ didn't accomplish in Wolfsbane (strike the head from the serpent, only this time it is Abaddon instead of Horus). That would be terrible imo. Because nothing would come of it. GW aren't going to kill off Abby, so a Black Legion showdown is only going to further Worf the Wolves/Russ, which I'm just so tired of by now. Why not an actual, no caveat, no 'actually the bad guys achieved X' or 'losses are so heavy it's pyrrhic', honest to gods win for a change? Is 'tries to kill Abby-sue, but screws up, just like he did with Horus ( Wolfsbane, so, so much)' really the return for Russ people have been anticipating? Don't think we've seen the last of the thread that started with Gungnir piercing Horus. Russ could have killed him and doubted, yes, but doubted out of mercy for he saw the old Horus imprisoned within himself. That might pay out in the last battle in Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Don't think we've seen the last of the thread that started with Gungnir piercing Horus. Russ could have killed him and doubted, yes, but doubted out of mercy for he saw the old Horus imprisoned within himself. That might pay out in the last battle in Terra. And that's what's . Russ is one (arguably the one) of the Primarchs who really shouldn't be hesitating during mortal combat, especially while on a dedicated assassination mission. It's just the complete opposite of how he's been characterised throughout the HH series (for better or worse), and it makes everything that follows directly Russ's fault (as well as rendering the sacrifice of the Knights Errant and Wolves that died to set up the duel moot). Yarant and the 'Wolf Cull'? Beta Garmon and the Titandeath? The Siege of Terra itself? The death of Sanguinius? The crippling of the Emperor? All Russ's fault now, because he failed in the most important fight of his life. Not lost (which would've been somewhat frustrating (as I'd have preferred the entire 'Russ v Horus' plot never appearing in the first place), but at least consistent, losing to super-Chaos Horus is fair enough, as long as Russ hadn't sabotaged his own victory), but failed. And if the 'pay off' is during the battle of the Vengeful Spirit (which again, wouldn't be happening in the first place if Russ hadn't hesitated) then that treads on what has traditionally been Sanguinius's turf, the Angel's sacrifice helping the Emperor finally kill Horus. Hell. it makes Russ the third Primarch most responsible for the failure of the Emperor's vision and the mess the Imperium turned into (behind Lorgar, because Lorgar, and Magnus for breaking the webway, even Horus has had his culpability reduced by the whole "old Horus imprisoned within himself" thing). He may not have broken it, but he's the reason the Emperor isn't available to try to put the pieces back together. Sorry, but I just don't see how this isn't ing on Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Well they said the siege of Terra and the Horus vs Emperor would change. I know someone said that more than a couple chapters would be upset at the changes coming to those 2 events. If O had to guess that would be the BA's. They have long held the idea that Sangy held the gate himself, I think that may change. I also think the opening in Horus's armor may be from Russ, due to how Wolfsbane sounds like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 There may be a weakness in the armour, but not the opening, as at the end of Wolfsbane, the armour is being repaired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 My call is that the injury of Wolfsbane will be either the reason Horus brings the shields down or has a last second moment of clarity before killing the Emperor which he uses to blast him to Tomorrowland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 My call is that the injury of Wolfsbane will be either the reason Horus brings the shields down or has a last second moment of clarity before killing the Emperor which he uses to blast him to Tomorrowland. I took it as, the injury russ inflicted to Horus was Doubt. Horus now doubted his cause, himself and what he did. This then seeded the actions of Abadonnn to view Horus as losing his way or resolve. might paint up a nice picture for a abaddon vs russ dual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Yep agreed that would be amazing. I see totally your point Leif but Russ was very taxed after having to kill Magnus, mayhaps also remembering his other murdered brother. Also at Alexxes he decided he wouldn't be the executioner no longer since that title was hurting them more than anything. I think it speaks to the depth of Russ persona, one of the best characterised and insightful Primarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Yep agreed that would be amazing. I see totally your point Leif but Russ was very taxed after having to kill Magnus, mayhaps also remembering his other murdered brother. Also at Alexxes he decided he wouldn't be the executioner no longer since that title was hurting them more than anything. I think it speaks to the depth of Russ persona, one of the best characterised and insightful Primarchs. It always seemed somehow the point of the fluff that, above all, two Primarchs, above all, tried to become human. The rest just went either machine or more more more (power, usually). Only Russ and Sanguinius seemed to not only care about how human they were, they each not only reveled in it, they both took a very different path, but both ended up in the same general place. Russ turned himself from a simple living weapon, into a person. Sangy found the purpose of duty, especially with how he went. Duty before life. Both are wonderful lessons; both Sangy and Russ deserve a great deal of respect for finding their individual wisdoms, and then, above all, for the reforging of their Legions. The Blood Angels are men and monsters, or monsters and men, depending upon the person in the armor. The same also goes for the Sons of Russ. If the best lesson the Wolves ever teach me is, wield oneself as a weapon, and let no one else save those that prove they have your and those you are sworn to protect lives' in mind above all else, well... If a person does not amount to a damn, they don't deserve to lead. Harsh lesson, harsh world. Still, I won't fault myself for learning that lesson from the Wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 If the best lesson the Wolves ever teach me is, wield oneself as a weapon, and let no one else save those that prove they have your and those you are sworn to protect lives' in mind above all else, well... If a person does not amount to a damn, they don't deserve to lead. Harsh lesson, harsh world. Still, I won't fault myself for learning that lesson from the Wolves. Yes. Just yes. :cuss yes. I've also learnt about myself through my legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Yep agreed that would be amazing. I see totally your point Leif but Russ was very taxed after having to kill Magnus, mayhaps also remembering his other murdered brother. Also at Alexxes he decided he wouldn't be the executioner no longer since that title was hurting them more than anything. I think it speaks to the depth of Russ persona, one of the best characterised and insightful Primarchs. The thing is though, if he's decided to not be the executioner any more, why did he try to bushwhack Horus? If he's trying to be the '40k era' protector archetype, he should have stayed on Terra or Beta Garmon and used his Legion in a more conventional, defensive deployment. But no, he chose the aggressive hail mary, and he failed in the most pathetic way. If his head wasn't in the game, then the entire mission was complete folly, which also reflects badly on Russ. Sorry, but him being 'taxed' just doesn't gel with me. Maybe if he was going round 2 with Magnus then some element of hesitation/reluctance would make sense (personally I don't think so, but it would be better justified than Wolfsbane), but this was Horus. The Big Kahuna of Traitors, the one who played Russ like a fiddle at Prospero. That alone should've been enough for Russ to fully commit. Not only was he fighting the lynchpin to the entire Heresy, but also the man who is personally responsible for all the exploitation, misery and failure Russ has experienced over the preceding few years. Horus should have been the last Primarch Russ had any qualms about ending with extreme prejudice. You say it speaks to the depth of Russ's persona. I'd say it revealed him to possibly be the weakest of his brothers. At the moment of truth, he didn't have the resolve to complete the mission he chose for himself, failed the most important test of his life, and his men, father and the entire Galaxy paid a terrible price for his weakness. That story took a badly treated (by the writers, imo) Russ, battered by cruel fate and circumstance, but who was still 'my guy' as it were, and made him indefensible for me. Haley made Russ everything the haters accused him of, an arrogant, hypocritical blowhard, who fails to walk the walk when it most matters. Russ isn't a hero any more, he's a schmuck. And that makes me so very sad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Yep agreed that would be amazing. I see totally your point Leif but Russ was very taxed after having to kill Magnus, mayhaps also remembering his other murdered brother. Also at Alexxes he decided he wouldn't be the executioner no longer since that title was hurting them more than anything. I think it speaks to the depth of Russ persona, one of the best characterised and insightful Primarchs. The thing is though, if he's decided to not be the executioner any more, why did he try to bushwhack Horus? If he's trying to be the '40k era' protector archetype, he should have stayed on Terra or Beta Garmon and used his Legion in a more conventional, defensive deployment. But no, he chose the aggressive hail mary, and he failed in the most pathetic way. If his head wasn't in the game, then the entire mission was complete folly, which also reflects badly on Russ. Sorry, but him being 'taxed' just doesn't gel with me. Maybe if he was going round 2 with Magnus then some element of hesitation/reluctance would make sense (personally I don't think so, but it would be better justified than Wolfsbane), but this was Horus. The Big Kahuna of Traitors, the one who played Russ like a fiddle at Prospero. That alone should've been enough for Russ to fully commit. Not only was he fighting the lynchpin to the entire Heresy, but also the man who is personally responsible for all the exploitation, misery and failure Russ has experienced over the preceding few years. Horus should have been the last Primarch Russ had any qualms about ending with extreme prejudice. You say it speaks to the depth of Russ's persona. I'd say it revealed him to possibly be the weakest of his brothers. At the moment of truth, he didn't have the resolve to complete the mission he chose for himself, failed the most important test of his life, and his men, father and the entire Galaxy paid a terrible price for his weakness. That story took a badly treated (by the writers, imo) Russ, battered by cruel fate and circumstance, but who was still 'my guy' as it were, and made him indefensible for me. Haley made Russ everything the haters accused him of, an arrogant, hypocritical blowhard, who fails to walk the walk when it most matters. Russ isn't a hero any more, he's a schmuck. And that makes me so very sad . I'm pretty sure Haley would claim it was plot armor that protected Horus. It should have been Horus was either able to save himself, needed to be saved by another, or, Russ spared him to show him, for some reason, "He could have..." I get where you're coming from, although I will need to get the book in question when I am able, and read it. I'm pretty sure you're right on the money here. The problem is, although at least one forum poster does not like Marvel right now, at all, that's their right. A writer who is essentially recasting a character even when he doubts himself, Russ, should have done in life one thing, one driving principal, one concept that forces oneself to improve, in all ways, at any time. Do the hardest thing you ever can with every passing moment of your life. It's hard as hell, but oh, you will love the results. If that had been the writer's message... Sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Yep agreed that would be amazing. I see totally your point Leif but Russ was very taxed after having to kill Magnus, mayhaps also remembering his other murdered brother. Also at Alexxes he decided he wouldn't be the executioner no longer since that title was hurting them more than anything. I think it speaks to the depth of Russ persona, one of the best characterised and insightful Primarchs. The thing is though, if he's decided to not be the executioner any more, why did he try to bushwhack Horus? If he's trying to be the '40k era' protector archetype, he should have stayed on Terra or Beta Garmon and used his Legion in a more conventional, defensive deployment. But no, he chose the aggressive hail mary, and he failed in the most pathetic way. If his head wasn't in the game, then the entire mission was complete folly, which also reflects badly on Russ. Sorry, but him being 'taxed' just doesn't gel with me. Maybe if he was going round 2 with Magnus then some element of hesitation/reluctance would make sense (personally I don't think so, but it would be better justified than Wolfsbane), but this was Horus. The Big Kahuna of Traitors, the one who played Russ like a fiddle at Prospero. That alone should've been enough for Russ to fully commit. Not only was he fighting the lynchpin to the entire Heresy, but also the man who is personally responsible for all the exploitation, misery and failure Russ has experienced over the preceding few years. Horus should have been the last Primarch Russ had any qualms about ending with extreme prejudice. You say it speaks to the depth of Russ's persona. I'd say it revealed him to possibly be the weakest of his brothers. At the moment of truth, he didn't have the resolve to complete the mission he chose for himself, failed the most important test of his life, and his men, father and the entire Galaxy paid a terrible price for his weakness. That story took a badly treated (by the writers, imo) Russ, battered by cruel fate and circumstance, but who was still 'my guy' as it were, and made him indefensible for me. Haley made Russ everything the haters accused him of, an arrogant, hypocritical blowhard, who fails to walk the walk when it most matters. Russ isn't a hero any more, he's a schmuck. And that makes me so very sad . I think Wolfsbane is a stark example of how crappy fluff written decades ago is interfering with modern writers trying to flesh out the fluff/background The intent was to show that Russ was no longer a simple attack dog at the beck and call of the emperor. However, all those years of serving as the executioner had given Russ a particular set of skills (cue Liam Neeson). Russ viewed the defense of Terra as a losing proposition that would result in a pyrrhic victory at best. His hail mary assassination attempt was the last chance for a true victory and one that was only available to him for a short window. He knew it may not work but there were no other options (from his point of view). He resigned himself to his duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I think Wolfsbane is a stark example of how crappy fluff written decades ago is interfering with modern writers trying to flesh out the fluff/background The intent was to show that Russ was no longer a simple attack dog at the beck and call of the emperor. However, all those years of serving as the executioner had given Russ a particular set of skills (cue Liam Neeson). Russ viewed the defense of Terra as a losing proposition that would result in a pyrrhic victory at best. His hail mary assassination attempt was the last chance for a true victory and one that was only available to him for a short window. He knew it may not work but there were no other options (from his point of view). He resigned himself to his duty. Thing is though, all that's fine. The crux of my intense distaste for Wolfsbane isn't the plan, or that Russ doesn't kill Horus. That was inevitable, and would've resulted in moderate distaste at worst . If Russ had gone up against chaos-buffed super Horus and got his cleaned, it would have been annoying, but consistent with both the portrayed 'power levels' (for want of a better term, I know the subject can get messy when discussing Primarch duels) and the character of Russ. While losing always stings, there's less shame in losing when trying to punch above your weight class. But that isn't what Haley gave us, the hesitation, and losing the fight because of it, is what has entirely broken Russ. Russ could have ended the Heresy then and there, he had the power, but he didn't. Hence he's a schmuck, not a hero. And there was no need for it. I honestly cannot fathom why they thought Russ beating Horus, but then losing because he hesitates was a good idea to introduce. I'd certainly like to think it wasn't due to a ' Russ' agenda at BL, but other than 'Haley wasn't paying attention to how Russ has been characterised' or 'Haley is a phenomenally bad author' I genuinely don't know how else to interpret it. I honestly rank the events of Wolfsbane as some of, if not the, worst fluff GW have ever put out. Am I biased as all hell? Of course. But that's my honest reaction to this trainwreck of a plot, and it's complete destruction of 'my' Primarch. Fulgrim and McNeill could only take Ferrus's life, with Wolfsbane, BL have taken Russ's soul imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Hayley has written very well for the Blood Angels so I am willing to stick my neck and say I do not believe he is a bad author. I do not like the decision he made but that is different. Maybe he had orders from higher up that the battle had to go a particular way. Maybe it is a setup for something we will see later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Armageddon wars and SW vs TS has been done to death recently. So I'd prefer something new like SW vs Black Legion A bit like Russ or the legion finishing the job that Russ didn't accomplish in Wolfsbane (strike the head from the serpent, only this time it is Abaddon instead of Horus). Abbadon would be good fodder. Retire his mini, go a different direction. With Primarchs running around he's not exactly a great nemisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I do think it's funny how this thread labeled "Space Wolves reveals today maybe?" was made 1 June and here we sit end of July with nothing. Even EC have more hints of their return than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 You are strong with the wolf spirits of Fenris.... http://natfka.blogspot.com/2018/07/rumored-space-wolf-codex-release-august.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 WHY WON'T JULY AND AUGUST END ALREADY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Don't rush it Grieux, I have not even started my summer hols yet. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 You are strong with the wolf spirits of Fenris.... http://natfka.blogspot.com/2018/07/rumored-space-wolf-codex-release-august.html Their only reference is PJ who did it on his own thoughts and not even a rumor. AOS still has a bunch of Nighthaunt stuff, more kill team, Titanicus. If they do release in August I do not think we will enjoy it as much as most of the people expect it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Redbeard Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I know this has been said before, but the worse part is just not knowing anything... day after day, month goes by and all we get is "soon" and rumours without end. Niw we get a new one, and wr just can't gather the energy... I am really enjoying the game. I am new and still havw the rusj of wanting to vuy new stuff, fluff my army and decide what I want, finding out things about myself. But it still stings to see codecies, see warlord traits and relics and stratagems and having to go "well at least I get to spend my comand point rerolling a dice and interrupting combat". Still seeing Claws with BS 4+ while all other neophytes get 3+ and having to pay double the points for shields on TWC an already expensive unit hurts too. Damn I would love to run Skyclaws with three meltashots at BS 3+ and then doing a brutal and reckless charge. Or have a Curse of the Wulfen Stratagem to give extra attacks and FnP to an assaulting units. Or somethings different to try other stuff than changing up the units Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I wish GW would give something. Telling us back in June "soon" and not having a single official anything other than " trust us, when you get it you will love it!" comment is just bad customer service. Warhammer fest and Aug 25th pre order is at least something but that's still not official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakendoomcool Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 25th of August pre-order. According to faeit. Not long now brothers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.