Codex Next Week

[PeteySödes]

The Durafast on a Chaplain Dread with Lascannons anyone?

 

 

 

There’s a cool strategem I hadn’t seen leak called wisdom of the ancients that gives a reroll 1’s aura for one phase but it can’t be used on murderfang or a wulfen dread, pretty sweet IMO.

That's been in the vanilla Marine Codex since release. ;)

Ah well I’m the reverse of all those crappy reviewers then, I only know wolves and have never fought against marines in a competitive setting lol.

 

At any rate I’d imagine we’ll get more mileage out of it, I never see dreads anymore other than mine.

[TiguriusX]

Dreads are also suffering from the knight meta

 

Before knights people didn't typically build an army with enough tools to stop shield dreads

 

Every competitive list you face now is happy to see a dread because their knight killing tools still have a job

[Panzer]

Yeah, Dreads are okay-ish depending on weapon loadout and whether they have an invul safe/character keyword or not. Then Armiger arrive who are essentially just better Dreads and Knights who really don't have any problems destroying a few Dreads before they could ever reach them and other armies pack enough anti-tank to deal with Knights, T8 spam Nurgle armies and T8 spam Astra Militarum armies so there's easily no place for Dreads in a competetive meta anymore.

In friendly and semi-competetive matches they're still fine tho so I keep using mine. Boxnaughts for the win!

[Khine]

I thought of one use for the Durafast.

WL Termi - PF + Wrist Grenade launcher - Comb- Plasma. Teleport in with Wolf Scouts with cloaks doing their BEL on a weak flank.
 

Use the scouts as a screen / for their fire power.

That's probably an enemy squad gone + a new, hard to kill threat in their deployment zone.

[PeteySödes]

Mine wrecked face at Adepticon this year but as you say it was still horde meta and pre-reserve beta. :(

[M.Redbeard]

The swing to antiknight mwta will definetely hurt our Dreads. Moat armies will bring enoigh gun to bring down one or two Knights, and they will be doing the match with rotate Ion shields, so the dread 4++ will not save them. I am not experienced enough to know if the counter will be high damage weapons so you inly need a few :cusss to go through to wreck the Knight or through sheer saturation. I hope it is the first as it grants us some hope with Cloaked by the Storm to weather it.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Alright so clarification. Can WGPL in TDA actually take heavy weapons now? Like an assault cannon on one attached to GH pack?

[PeteySödes]

Alright so clarification. Can WGPL in TDA actually take heavy weapons now? Like an assault cannon on one attached to GH pack?

 

No, still just the cyclone on a LF WGPL.

[Bulwyf]

Can anyone list the point changes from new codex and chapter approved 17?

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

So here's a weirdball issue related to this Codex:

 

Space Wolves now have datasheets/warscrolls for Great Company Champion and Great Company Ancient. These units are clearly meant to simply be the Wolves' version of the Company Champion and Company Ancient from the vanilla Space Marines (the values are the same between Codexes, although the point cost of the vanilla Company Champion dropped from 56 to 40 between the Index and the Space Marines Codex, which came out long before Chapter Approved 2017 and therefore wasn't mentioned there).

 

I know I'm not shocking anyone so far, but...

 

The Index also contained rules for "Company Champion on Bike" and "Company Ancient on Bike." These were both removed for the Space Marines Codex, but if I'm understanding the rules correctly, it means that both a Space Wolf Great Company Champion on Bike and a Great Company Ancient on Bike should be legal. I know it's a tightrope walk, but unless there's some difference between the vanilla Space Marines version of the standard units and the Space Wolves versions, then the biked-up variants should be legal as well in any scenario that honors "Index-only" units.

 

Am I wrong?

[hammer grimblood]

So here's a weirdball issue related to this Codex:

 

Space Wolves now have datasheets/warscrolls for Great Company Champion and Great Company Ancient. These units are clearly meant to simply be the Wolves' version of the Company Champion and Company Ancient from the vanilla Space Marines (the values are the same between Codexes, although the point cost of the vanilla Company Champion dropped from 56 to 40 between the Index and the Space Marines Codex, which came out long before Chapter Approved 2017 and therefore wasn't mentioned there).

 

I know I'm not shocking anyone so far, but...

 

The Index also contained rules for "Company Champion on Bike" and "Company Ancient on Bike." These were both removed for the Space Marines Codex, but if I'm understanding the rules correctly, it means that both a Space Wolf Great Company Champion on Bike and a Great Company Ancient on Bike should be legal. I know it's a tightrope walk, but unless there's some difference between the vanilla Space Marines version of the standard units and the Space Wolves versions, then the biked-up variants should be legal as well in any scenario that honors "Index-only" units.

 

Am I wrong?

I'll leave the deep rules discussion for others more well versed but the company ancient/champ on bike doesn't exist in our Index and Codex therefore I wouldn't bring one and I'd be hard pressed to believe that argument from an opponent.

[M.Redbeard]

So here's a weirdball issue related to this Codex:

 

Space Wolves now have datasheets/warscrolls for Great Company Champion and Great Company Ancient. These units are clearly meant to simply be the Wolves' version of the Company Champion and Company Ancient from the vanilla Space Marines (the values are the same between Codexes, although the point cost of the vanilla Company Champion dropped from 56 to 40 between the Index and the Space Marines Codex, which came out long before Chapter Approved 2017 and therefore wasn't mentioned there).

 

I know I'm not shocking anyone so far, but...

 

The Index also contained rules for "Company Champion on Bike" and "Company Ancient on Bike." These were both removed for the Space Marines Codex, but if I'm understanding the rules correctly, it means that both a Space Wolf Great Company Champion on Bike and a Great Company Ancient on Bike should be legal. I know it's a tightrope walk, but unless there's some difference between the vanilla Space Marines version of the standard units and the Space Wolves versions, then the biked-up variants should be legal as well in any scenario that honors "Index-only" units.

 

Am I wrong?

I'd say you'd be qrong. If you go for Index, on the index the Space Wolves are clearly excluded from those two units. While they are the same units, in neither book it says that we can use those units. I'd go as far as saying that th Ancient is explicitly allowed in the Index, while the biker version isn't.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

So here's a weirdball issue related to this Codex:

 

Space Wolves now have datasheets/warscrolls for Great Company Champion and Great Company Ancient. These units are clearly meant to simply be the Wolves' version of the Company Champion and Company Ancient from the vanilla Space Marines (the values are the same between Codexes, although the point cost of the vanilla Company Champion dropped from 56 to 40 between the Index and the Space Marines Codex, which came out long before Chapter Approved 2017 and therefore wasn't mentioned there).

 

I know I'm not shocking anyone so far, but...

 

The Index also contained rules for "Company Champion on Bike" and "Company Ancient on Bike." These were both removed for the Space Marines Codex, but if I'm understanding the rules correctly, it means that both a Space Wolf Great Company Champion on Bike and a Great Company Ancient on Bike should be legal. I know it's a tightrope walk, but unless there's some difference between the vanilla Space Marines version of the standard units and the Space Wolves versions, then the biked-up variants should be legal as well in any scenario that honors "Index-only" units.

 

Am I wrong?

I'd say you'd be qrong. If you go for Index, on the index the Space Wolves are clearly excluded from those two units. While they are the same units, in neither book it says that we can use those units. I'd go as far as saying that th Ancient is explicitly allowed in the Index, while the biker version isn't.

 

 

But the Ancient ISN'T explicitly allowed in the Index. At the time the Index came out, the Space Wolves didn't have access to the unit. My point is that if we DID have access to the Company Ancient back then, there's no reason to conclude that we wouldn't have also had access to the bike variant, given how many bike variants we did have access to.

 

I'm happy to be proven wrong, I just don't think it's conclusive either way and I feel it's at least worth pursuing via a clarification from GW.

 

EDIT: Something worth pointing out here is that there is no dilineation between "Company Ancient" and "Company Ancient on Bike" from a datasheet standpoint in the Index. It's only in the point value charts at the back of the book where there's a distinction made. The same is true of the Company Champion. So it's not like the bike variants can be argued to be a totally distinct unit which the Wolves were specifically denied access to. We were granted access to a unit whose bike variant was removed post-Index. To me, that should grant us access to those bike variants in any "Index-only" scenario.

[Megalodon]

GW gave Wolves Index access to the Company Ancient via the FAQ/Errata, but I don't remember access to a bike version of him.

[M.Redbeard]

 

 

 

So here's a weirdball issue related to this Codex:

 

Space Wolves now have datasheets/warscrolls for Great Company Champion and Great Company Ancient. These units are clearly meant to simply be the Wolves' version of the Company Champion and Company Ancient from the vanilla Space Marines (the values are the same between Codexes, although the point cost of the vanilla Company Champion dropped from 56 to 40 between the Index and the Space Marines Codex, which came out long before Chapter Approved 2017 and therefore wasn't mentioned there).

 

I know I'm not shocking anyone so far, but...

 

The Index also contained rules for "Company Champion on Bike" and "Company Ancient on Bike." These were both removed for the Space Marines Codex, but if I'm understanding the rules correctly, it means that both a Space Wolf Great Company Champion on Bike and a Great Company Ancient on Bike should be legal. I know it's a tightrope walk, but unless there's some difference between the vanilla Space Marines version of the standard units and the Space Wolves versions, then the biked-up variants should be legal as well in any scenario that honors "Index-only" units.

 

Am I wrong?

I'd say you'd be qrong. If you go for Index, on the index the Space Wolves are clearly excluded from those two units. While they are the same units, in neither book it says that we can use those units. I'd go as far as saying that th Ancient is explicitly allowed in the Index, while the biker version isn't.

But the Ancient ISN'T explicitly allowed in the Index. At the time the Index came out, the Space Wolves didn't have access to the unit. My point is that if we DID have access to the Company Ancient back then, there's no reason to conclude that we wouldn't have also had access to the bike variant, given how many bike variants we did have access to.

 

I'm happy to be proven wrong, I just don't think it's conclusive either way and I feel it's at least worth pursuing via a clarification from GW.

 

EDIT: Something worth pointing out here is that there is no dilineation between "Company Ancient" and "Company Ancient on Bike" from a datasheet standpoint in the Index. It's only in the point value charts at the back of the book where there's a distinction made. The same is true of the Company Champion. So it's not like the bike variants can be argued to be a totally distinct unit which the Wolves were specifically denied access to. We were granted access to a unit whose bike variant was removed post-Index. To me, that should grant us access to those bike variants in any "Index-only" scenario.

Sorry mate but the Comoany Ancient is explicitly in the SW part of the index. Page 130 in the digital version, the first unit from the Adeptus Astartes that the Wolves can use is the Company Ancient. And Company Ancient is a different datasheet, both of them being on page 23 of the Index. The Company Vhampion on bike is also a different datasheet on page 25. As such per Index only I'd say we aren't allowed, as such units were not in the Index nor are or the Codex. I encourage you to seek clarification from GW, but as far as I can see I see no justification for using them, since we never had access to them.

 

Unrelated point, I hate how vanilla the Great Company Champion feels.

 

Edit:

 

GW gave Wolves Index access to the Company Ancient via the FAQ/Errata, but I don't remember access to a bike version of him.

Ah since I had the digital version I didn't know it was an errata. But in my version that has the Ancient the bike version is excluded, so if one was added and the other one wasn't I have to conclude it wasn't allowed in the first place.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

 

 

So here's a weirdball issue related to this Codex:

 

Space Wolves now have datasheets/warscrolls for Great Company Champion and Great Company Ancient. These units are clearly meant to simply be the Wolves' version of the Company Champion and Company Ancient from the vanilla Space Marines (the values are the same between Codexes, although the point cost of the vanilla Company Champion dropped from 56 to 40 between the Index and the Space Marines Codex, which came out long before Chapter Approved 2017 and therefore wasn't mentioned there).

 

I know I'm not shocking anyone so far, but...

 

The Index also contained rules for "Company Champion on Bike" and "Company Ancient on Bike." These were both removed for the Space Marines Codex, but if I'm understanding the rules correctly, it means that both a Space Wolf Great Company Champion on Bike and a Great Company Ancient on Bike should be legal. I know it's a tightrope walk, but unless there's some difference between the vanilla Space Marines version of the standard units and the Space Wolves versions, then the biked-up variants should be legal as well in any scenario that honors "Index-only" units.

 

Am I wrong?

I'd say you'd be qrong. If you go for Index, on the index the Space Wolves are clearly excluded from those two units. While they are the same units, in neither book it says that we can use those units. I'd go as far as saying that th Ancient is explicitly allowed in the Index, while the biker version isn't.

But the Ancient ISN'T explicitly allowed in the Index. At the time the Index came out, the Space Wolves didn't have access to the unit. My point is that if we DID have access to the Company Ancient back then, there's no reason to conclude that we wouldn't have also had access to the bike variant, given how many bike variants we did have access to.

 

I'm happy to be proven wrong, I just don't think it's conclusive either way and I feel it's at least worth pursuing via a clarification from GW.

 

EDIT: Something worth pointing out here is that there is no dilineation between "Company Ancient" and "Company Ancient on Bike" from a datasheet standpoint in the Index. It's only in the point value charts at the back of the book where there's a distinction made. The same is true of the Company Champion. So it's not like the bike variants can be argued to be a totally distinct unit which the Wolves were specifically denied access to. We were granted access to a unit whose bike variant was removed post-Index. To me, that should grant us access to those bike variants in any "Index-only" scenario.

Sorry mate but the Comoany Ancient is explicitly in the SW part of the index. Page 130 in the digital version, the first unit from the Adeptus Astartes that the Wolves can use is the Company Ancient. And Company Ancient is a different datasheet, both of them being on page 23 of the Index. The Company Vhampion on bike is also a different datasheet on page 25. As such per Index only I'd say we aren't allowed, as such units were not in the Index nor are or the Codex. I encourage you to seek clarification from GW, but as far as I can see I see no justification for using them, since we never had access to them.

 

Unrelated point, I hate how vanilla the Great Company Champion feels.

 

 

The digital version has definitely been updated then. The paper version mentions the Primaris Ancient on page 130, but that's it. The first standard unit mentioned is the Dreadnought. So by the time the digital version was updated, they may have already made the decision to remove references to the bike versions of the Company Ancient and Champion, thus no reason to mention them.

 

(EDIT: The Space Marine Codex came out in July and the FAQ update was apparently in August, so the bike variants had definitely already been de-referenced by the time the Wolves received access to the Ancient. I'm still unclear as to whether the Company Champion was added to the Wolves roster prior to this codex).

 

You're right about the separate datasheets though. I flipped back to the CHAPTER Ancient and Champion page it looks like.

 

I may go ahead and write GW about it, though frankly they may just go for the easy "nope" answer even if they did see the merit in the question.

[M.Redbeard]

The digital version has definitely been updated then. The paper version mentions the Primaris Ancient on page 130, but that's it. The first standard unit mentioned is the Dreadnought. So by the time the digital version was updated, they may have already made the decision to remove references to the bike versions of the Company Ancient and Champion, thus no reason to mention them.

 

You're right about the separate datasheets though. I flipped back to the CHAPTER Ancient and Champion page it looks like.

 

I may go ahead and write GW about it, though frankly they may just go for the easy "nope" answer even if they did see the merit in the question.

Yeah that might be the case. And write away. If you get a "no" you are in the same place. If they say yes, well a few extra toys. And at the end you might discuss with your opponent beforehand if you wakt to use one of those and get his approval.

 

Edit:

 

EDIT: The Space Marine Codex came out in July and the FAQ update was apparently in August, so the bike variants had definitely already been de-referenced by the time the Wolves received access to the Ancient. I'm still unclear as to whether the Company Champion was added to the Wolves roster prior to this codex).

As far as I aware the Champion was added to the codex, not before. The first mention I think was during the Codex previews, alongside the changes to Murderfang and Logan.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

The digital version has definitely been updated then. The paper version mentions the Primaris Ancient on page 130, but that's it. The first standard unit mentioned is the Dreadnought. So by the time the digital version was updated, they may have already made the decision to remove references to the bike versions of the Company Ancient and Champion, thus no reason to mention them.

 

You're right about the separate datasheets though. I flipped back to the CHAPTER Ancient and Champion page it looks like.

 

I may go ahead and write GW about it, though frankly they may just go for the easy "nope" answer even if they did see the merit in the question.

Yeah that might be the case. And write away. If you get a "no" you are in the same place. If they say yes, well a few extra toys. And at the end you might discuss with your opponent beforehand if you wakt to use one of those and get his approval.

 

 

Will do. Both of those seem like great units and could easily find a spot in a list, but without a clearly-worded statement from GW I don't think I'd even bother attempting to convince an opponent unless it was an informal game and even then it'd be totally up to them.

[Ranwulf]

Whats the point value of Thunderwolves or Wulfen? Had that been changed at all?

 

Ran

[M.Redbeard]

Whats the point value of Thunderwolves or Wulfen? Had that been changed at all?

 

Ran

As far as I've read from playwrs with the Codex the last changes are from Chapter Approved. No changes in the Codex for those units.

[PeteySödes]

Yea same as CA. The Twolves have a rerolls 1’s to hit strategem though for 1cp now though FWIW.

[M.Redbeard]

Yea same as CA. The Twolves have a rerolls 1’s to hit strategem though for 1cp now though FWIW.

Isn't it rerolls to wound? Or am I misremembering?

[Tokugawa]

WGBL is nerfed to A3 from A4? That is horrible.

[PeteySödes]

 

Yea same as CA. The Twolves have a rerolls 1’s to hit strategem though for 1cp now though FWIW.

Isn't it rerolls to wound? Or am I misremembering?

Correct! My mistake, I didn’t have it in front of me at the time.

 

As far as the WGBL yea it’s a blow but he’s still a steal for what he provides at that point cost.

[M.Redbeard]

 

 

Yea same as CA. The Twolves have a rerolls 1’s to hit strategem though for 1cp now though FWIW.

Isn't it rerolls to wound? Or am I misremembering?

Correct! My mistake, I didn’t have it in front of me at the time.

Sure it happens. I am thinking that while for regular TWC it only works if they are away of a WGBL it might not be that bad for a dueling WL whose WGBL has fallen. Against a T4 model it gives rerolls to everything with a WL with TH.