9th Ed. Wishlist?

[Shamansky]

Besides twin-linked weapons got its shots doubled in exchange of re-roll to-hit. Only Exterminator got nothing when the 8th happened to the game

[sairence]

Yup...funny how they thought a gun with fixed 8 shots would be too much at the start of 8th.

[Shamansky]

 

Waaaayyy more than that. Ork dakkajetz have 36 shots, scrapjets have like 15. Even with their BS of 5, thats 5 hits, so were talking like 20 shots for a LRBT since its a heavy suport slot.

 

*edit: I hate mobile...

 

Ya know, i agree. Heavy 8 AND reroll to-hit would be nice

[OldWherewolf]

I like this idea 

-Drop TCs as HQs (Except Pask), they shouldn't be needed

- Take Aim!  is +1 to hit, BID is +1 to wound, lasts until next command phase (including overwatch!)

- the TC becomes a squadron commander, and his platoon members within 6" is re-roll wounds (a la lieutenant), but the TC can also give orders to his platoon.

 

So you have a choice, either do +1 to wound or +1 to hit.  If you know you're going to get charged, do +1 to hit, otherwise +1 to wound.

 

We still have 2 major drawbacks, 1 - with the official GW boards and the amount of terrain on the boards, we don't have much shooting opportunity and 2 - we still suck in HtH.

 

So we need ways of still being effective shooters and still do something in the melee phase.  We don't have move-shoot-move, and we don't have shenanigans to prevent our opponents from implementing their strategy.  We just need to pound them to dust while they're doing it

 

In my vision, I see IG as just a giant slow-rolling death ball.  Unlike DG, which rely on durabiltiy, we have layers.  Each individual layers is almost like chaff, but the problem is we've got another layer behind it, and another layer behind that.  We have arty to pound their back lines, forcing them forward into our guns, while scions & valkyries steal their back objectives.  Our infantry & Demo Cannon LRBTs contest the middle, while LRBTs pound supporting units and anything that gets over-exposed.  By taking infantry in platoons (along with HWTs), we can screen our backfield while providing support for the mid-field units.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I like this idea

-Drop TCs as HQs (Except Pask), they shouldn't be needed

- Take Aim! is +1 to hit, BID is +1 to wound, lasts until next command phase (including overwatch!)

- the TC becomes a squadron commander, and his platoon members within 6" is re-roll wounds (a la lieutenant), but the TC can also give orders to his platoon.

 

So you have a choice, either do +1 to wound or +1 to hit. If you know you're going to get charged, do +1 to hit, otherwise +1 to wound.

 

We still have 2 major drawbacks, 1 - with the official GW boards and the amount of terrain on the boards, we don't have much shooting opportunity and 2 - we still suck in HtH.

 

So we need ways of still being effective shooters and still do something in the melee phase. We don't have move-shoot-move, and we don't have shenanigans to prevent our opponents from implementing their strategy. We just need to pound them to dust while they're doing it

 

In my vision, I see IG as just a giant slow-rolling death ball. Unlike DG, which rely on durabiltiy, we have layers. Each individual layers is almost like chaff, but the problem is we've got another layer behind it, and another layer behind that. We have arty to pound their back lines, forcing them forward into our guns, while scions & valkyries steal their back objectives. Our infantry & Demo Cannon LRBTs contest the middle, while LRBTs pound supporting units and anything that gets over-exposed. By taking infantry in platoons (along with HWTs), we can screen our backfield while providing support for the mid-field units.

to make IG competitive I think we need buffs for numbers.

For example if a unit has 10+ models in it, it gets to reroll 1s or something

[OldWherewolf]

You are correct in that we need numbers.  More troops, more tanks, more effective units, etc.

 

I'm not a fan of re-rolls "just because".  Furthermore, I'm not sure that fits because Guard have a hierarchical structure, which we should leverage.  Our Company Commander isn't a melee beast, and shouldn't be leading from the front (even catachan) to provide re-rolls as (s)he is far too squishy.  But the presence of a CC should dictate how the army is going to function, and where to focus fire.

 

Our platoon commanders, infantry, LRBT squadron leaders, etc.  should be providing the re-rolls because they lead from the front.  They should also provide Orders for the same reason.  It's still a question if they should provide re-rolls to-hit or to-wound, the standard is re-rolls to wound.  With BS of 4 we swing wildly from whiffing to obliteration every turn.   It averages out over the course of the game, but if we whiff turns 1 & 2 we've already lost. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

You are correct in that we need numbers. More troops, more tanks, more effective units, etc.

 

I'm not a fan of re-rolls "just because". Furthermore, I'm not sure that fits because Guard have a hierarchical structure, which we should leverage. Our Company Commander isn't a melee beast, and shouldn't be leading from the front (even catachan) to provide re-rolls as (s)he is far too squishy. But the presence of a CC should dictate how the army is going to function, and where to focus fire.

 

Our platoon commanders, infantry, LRBT squadron leaders, etc. should be providing the re-rolls because they lead from the front. They should also provide Orders for the same reason. It's still a question if they should provide re-rolls to-hit or to-wound, the standard is re-rolls to wound. With BS of 4 we swing wildly from whiffing to obliteration every turn. It averages out over the course of the game, but if we whiff turns 1 & 2 we've already lost.

i justify rerolling 1s as a way to represent the massed fire of full auto lasguns.

[sairence]

I very much doubt we'd get buff-auras AND keep orders in the same characters. And given the choice I much prefer orders, because they are just more flexible.

 

I'm also feeling highly allergic to going back to TCs being part of a squad if the squad then needs to stay as one unit throughout the game. Cause then when you tag one tank in CC, all of them are shut down.

 

What would make sense though is to make the TC part of the HS choice of a Leman Russ squadron instead of it being a separate HQ choice. Still have them act as separate units after deployment, but give them stronger buffs than now that o ly affect their squad when in close proximity to each other. Spearhead detachments can maybe get an exception, so we don't lose the option of running pure armoured armies.

 

We also need an ability/order/strat to either allow tanks to fall back and shoot or to fire blast weapons into engagament range.

[Shamansky]

What would make sense though is to make the TC part of the HS choice of a Leman Russ squadron instead of it being a separate HQ choice. Still have them act as separate units after deployment, but give them stronger buffs than now that o ly affect their squad when in close proximity to each other. Spearhead detachments can maybe get an exception, so we don't lose the option of running pure armoured armies.

 

We also need an ability/order/strat to either allow tanks to fall back and shoot or to fire blast weapons into engagament range.

This and count all vehicles as having Vox

[sairence]

At the very least all the transports, yeah.

[Diagramdude]

Give Chimeras actual fire ports please

[Shamansky]

or better unweld the top hatch

[OldWherewolf]

I wouldn't say tank squadrons *need* to stay together, but if they stay together (within 6"), they get the orders/buffs from their Lt.  Then vox casters extend that range from 6" to ~18-24. 

[jarms48]

It would take a lot for ogryn to become viable, one thing that would be a great help is if the shield of flesh stratagem protected more than just one infantry unit, like if it gave a -1 to hit in an area around it if the ogryn are the closest unit to the shooter, and protected vehicles as well

 

Honestly, if Ogryns were 20 points per model they'd be alright. Give them and Bullgryns the new bodyguard ability, remove the Ogryn Bodyguard datasheet, then also give Ripper Guns +1 AP at half range. 

[Warhead01]

 

It would take a lot for ogryn to become viable, one thing that would be a great help is if the shield of flesh stratagem protected more than just one infantry unit, like if it gave a -1 to hit in an area around it if the ogryn are the closest unit to the shooter, and protected vehicles as well

 

Honestly, if Ogryns were 20 points per model they'd be alright. Give them and Bullgryns the new bodyguard ability, remove the Ogryn Bodyguard datasheet, then also give Ripper Guns +1 AP at half range. 

 

I'm not sure what the new bodyguard agility is. can you elaborate. 

[Mordian Glory]

New bodyguard rule is like super Look Out Sir. You cannot target an enemy character (with 9 wounds or less) with ranged attacks whilst they are within range of a body guard unit. Even if there is only 1 model left in the bodyguard unit. Even if the character is in front of the bodyguard unit. Even if the character is out in the open but the bodyguard is totally out of line of sight. 

 

Its an absolutely horrible rule that gets abused a lot. There is a whole Dark Angels list built around 2-3 un-targetable Talon masters that stand out in the open firing away and you cant do anything about it because of the bodyguards. However, its out now and several factions have it and abuse, so Guard should also get access to it. 

[sairence]

I'm not sure it would be all that useful for us...like which of our characters do you need to make untargetable that aren't small enough to hide from LOS anyway? Our Psykers are the only ones that really need LOS and is that really worth it?

 

And they're not going to let Bullgrys bodyguard Tank Commanders again.

[Warhead01]

New bodyguard rule is like super Look Out Sir. You cannot target an enemy character (with 9 wounds or less) with ranged attacks whilst they are within range of a body guard unit. Even if there is only 1 model left in the bodyguard unit. Even if the character is in front of the bodyguard unit. Even if the character is out in the open but the bodyguard is totally out of line of sight. 

 

Its an absolutely horrible rule that gets abused a lot. There is a whole Dark Angels list built around 2-3 un-targetable Talon masters that stand out in the open firing away and you cant do anything about it because of the bodyguards. However, its out now and several factions have it and abuse, so Guard should also get access to it. 

That's what I figured was being referred two. My friend who plays SOB's has a bodyguard unit with a a different bodyguard rule and different criteria. So I was a little confused as not ever body guard key word rule is identical.  His have to be in front of the characters while the SM ones don't. He thought they both had to be in front and that it had been faq'd that way but it was only for his unit from the sob codex when I went looking, about 3 weeks back. It may have changed in the last few week? This edition is just god awful to keep up with. 

If I'm no longer correct I wouldn't know. But we have all of these bespoke rules, which is why it even came to mind to ask. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I'm not sure it would be all that useful for us...like which of our characters do you need to make untargetable that aren't small enough to hide from LOS anyway? Our Psykers are the only ones that really need LOS and is that really worth it?

 

And they're not going to let Bullgrys bodyguard Tank Commanders again.

[Diagramdude]

An untargettable company commander is not in the same league as untargettable talon masters. And it’s such a lame rule I hope it doesn’t proliferate.

[OldWherewolf]

I'm ok with the concept of the rule and what it's supposed to accomplish.  that being said, it does need tweaking.    Something like if the bodyguards is out of LOS, then the character can be targeted, but any wounds are applied as MWs to the bodyguard unit with no saves of any kind allowed against the MWs.  MWs in excess of the bodyguard unit are applied to the originally targeted character, with no saves of any kind allowed.

 

Like Diagramdude said, it's a big difference between a character dreadnought, talon masters and Celestine vs. a company commander surrounded by Ogryn bodyguards. 

[jarms48]

New bodyguard rule is like super Look Out Sir. You cannot target an enemy character (with 9 wounds or less) with ranged attacks whilst they are within range of a body guard unit. Even if there is only 1 model left in the bodyguard unit. Even if the character is in front of the bodyguard unit. Even if the character is out in the open but the bodyguard is totally out of line of sight. 

 

Its an absolutely horrible rule that gets abused a lot. There is a whole Dark Angels list built around 2-3 un-targetable Talon masters that stand out in the open firing away and you cant do anything about it because of the bodyguards. However, its out now and several factions have it and abuse, so Guard should also get access to it.

 

The only issue with this is that we don’t really have any amazingly shooty or fighty characters. If we get command squads with characters again that might be alright. Like we could have 4 untargetable BS3+ plasma or melta.

[OldWherewolf]

I believe we need more LOS! in our army, as it would help us quite a bit.  I'd make these units eligible as well:

 

- Psykers (if we add Wydvanes to Primaris/Astropaths to form a unit)

- command squads

- special weapon squads

- HWTs

 

Bodyguard is just an extension of LOS!, so bodyguard units could provide the same benefit to these units.  I really like the idea of a command squad running next to a shield wall of Bullgryn.  Or Bullgryns protecting a psyker unit while the psykers are completing mission objectives.  It would be a waste for the Bullgryns to cover the HWTs, but could still be thematic even if it doesn't lend itself to game mechanics

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Not sure how big the Malcador tanks are, but I kinda hope the tanks between Russ and baneblade are GW plastic malcador kits that make either the defender or the assault variants.

 

I kinda like the defender’s look a lot, and 7 heavy bolters backed up by a big cannon seems like a nice bit of firepower

Edited November 29, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Diagramdude]

I walked into a retail Warhammer store today and the guy working there says he expects the new Guard codex late Q2 or Q3 2022 with a heavy emphasis on new plastic Krieg.