Black Templar Teaser and Rumors

[Sete]

I see we are at the phase of moaning about rules? Cool cya guys laterz

[9x19 Parabellum]

I see we are at the phase of moaning about rules? Cool cya guys laterz

 

yes. You're welcome back any time, though.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I see we are at the phase of moaning about rules? Cool cya guys laterz

To be fair, I'm moaning about War Com's inability to understand their own rules.

[Tokugawa]

Grimaldus is power level 7? Which hints ~140pts...

 

And 4 sword brethrens is also power level 7, so ~35pts per guy(maybe include the weapons). But the name of their swords is "power sword", not "master crafted power sword". So they can't compete with on defence, then they can't compete with BGV on offence, too.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Tokugawa

[Marshal Laeroth]

So I have stayed away and not dropped any further hints on here, as per request. But I did say that we were going to need to adapt. I did not say we were going to be less competitive.

 

Just consume the book, let your emotions idle down a little...and you'll be able to see the delicious combos. You have to remember...I have had access to the rules for quite some time. I am a very competitive player. That's what I do. And I am excited for our future.

[Marshal Mattias]

C'mon everyone, usually we wait until the whole rulebook is out before we start claiming the sky is falling 

 

Let's show a little faith, eh?

[Odd-ad]

I was going to say, we should have learned by now that we really can't make judgement calls either way about rules or units until we have all the information.

 

How many times have players been up in arms about rules that seem to be too powerful or too weak, only to later learn that the outrage was overblown.

[Trignama]

Yeah, anyone who looks at rules in snippets and then declares anything is good or bad based on those snippets alone doesn't hold a valid opinion in my eye. We have no idea how any of this will blend together. 

Lets wait and see how it all works out, I'm assuming by tomorrow we will all have a much clearer picture. 

[redmapa]

We still have yet to see the last Vow and the new stratagems or if WLT changed. Right now all Im sure of is that a 10 man Hammernator squad just got even deadlier with Sigismund's seal! That mini relic alone is worth its weight in gold imo and couple with Helbrecht buffing another unit with full rerolls and we can get some spicy bricks to hit the enemy with.

 

Vows may not all be great but at least they offer different buffs and are better than Knights of Sigismund.

[Marshal Laeroth]

How many times have players been up in arms about rules that seem to be too powerful or too weak, only to later learn that the outrage was overblown.

I distinctly remember saying that our current rules were amazing due to all of the movement shenanigans we could do in an objective world and everyone told me that I was full of crap, because all of these other chapters get buffs in close combat.

 

It took 6 months for that to sink in for the majority of the BT playerbase and to realize I wasn't just blowing smoke up your a**es. The same is going be true here.

[Sete]

So I have stayed away and not dropped any further hints on here, as per request. But I did say that we were going to need to adapt. I did not say we were going to be less competitive.

 

Just consume the book, let your emotions idle down a little...and you'll be able to see the delicious combos. You have to remember...I have had access to the rules for quite some time. I am a very competitive player. That's what I do. And I am excited for our future.

I just need to know if I can have a second power weapon on a Crusader squad.

 

If I can have sword bro with a sword and initiate with another sword, I'm a happy crusader.

[Odd-ad]

 

How many times have players been up in arms about rules that seem to be too powerful or too weak, only to later learn that the outrage was overblown.

I distinctly remember saying that our current rules were amazing due to all of the movement shenanigans we could do in an objective world and everyone told me that I was full of crap, because all of these other chapters get buffs in close combat.

 

It took 6 months for that to sink in for the majority of the BT playerbase and to realize I wasn't just blowing smoke up your a**es. The same is going be true here.

Oh I don't doubt that you have a better idea of what the possibilities are for us.

 

I also seem to recall that you were pretty pleased with the Sword Brethren, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do.

[Marshal Laeroth]

 

 

How many times have players been up in arms about rules that seem to be too powerful or too weak, only to later learn that the outrage was overblown.

I distinctly remember saying that our current rules were amazing due to all of the movement shenanigans we could do in an objective world and everyone told me that I was full of crap, because all of these other chapters get buffs in close combat.

 

It took 6 months for that to sink in for the majority of the BT playerbase and to realize I wasn't just blowing smoke up your a**es. The same is going be true here.

Oh I don't doubt that you have a better idea of what the possibilities are for us.

 

I also seem to recall that you were pretty pleased with the Sword Brethren, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do.

Aye. I was piggybacking off what you said. ;)

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I'm pretty pleased with what was revealed today. The forced charge aspect is a little fiddly, but the way these vows are split makes me think we might get a strat, relic, or WT trait that lets us ignore the passion side for a unit, so you can play around in that space a little. It's prime design space for a 1 CP strat to ignore the down sides for a phase or turn.

 

Other than that, it's exciting to see Knights of Sigismund without the charge restriction, especially in a world of Necron and Ork T5. Between that, the mortal wounds output, and the restructuring of Divine Push, it feels like they're shoring up some of our 8th weaknesses while making us play less cheesy and more solidly. We needed reliable mortal wounds output, now we have some. We have targeted rerolls that let us operate away from characters. And it looks like some of the fat in our Litanies list was trimmed out for actual usable things. I'm already seeing some gold here. The highest points might have been trimmed down a bit, but it looks like our lowest are coming way up.

[Sete]

What forced charge? Do you guys not charge every chance available? Heresy.

[Marshal Laeroth]

Just wait until they put out the FAQ for auto-wounds counting as a roll of 6 to wound. ;) Edited October 8, 2021 by Marshal Laeroth

[BitsHammer]

 

 

Its almost as if there was something behind Laeroths "we will have to rethink" whenever rules discussions started rdvolving around DP

Here is what I'm "rethinking".

Buy BT models.

Paint them black.

Call them "counts as Blood Angels"

 

:-D

That's asking for a Crusade.

[BitsHammer]

So I have stayed away and not dropped any further hints on here, as per request. But I did say that we were going to need to adapt. I did not say we were going to be less competitive.

 

Just consume the book, let your emotions idle down a little...and you'll be able to see the delicious combos. You have to remember...I have had access to the rules for quite some time. I am a very competitive player. That's what I do. And I am excited for our future.

Great point. We are merely peeking through a crack in the wall trying to guess what the shadow on the otherside is amd it's worth remembering that. Plus we're building on top of the rather solid C:SM core so I don't know how we could be bad with such a diverse base.

 

How many times have players been up in arms about rules that seem to be too powerful or too weak, only to later learn that the outrage was overblown.

I distinctly remember saying that our current rules were amazing due to all of the movement shenanigans we could do in an objective world and everyone told me that I was full of crap, because all of these other chapters get buffs in close combat.

 

It took 6 months for that to sink in for the majority of the BT playerbase and to realize I wasn't just blowing smoke up your a**es. The same is going be true here.

Okay, but is the Black Tide finally back?

[Lemondish]

Really really hard to please the BT crowd here, yeesh

[JAG Templar]

 

So I have stayed away and not dropped any further hints on here, as per request. But I did say that we were going to need to adapt. I did not say we were going to be less competitive.

 

Just consume the book, let your emotions idle down a little...and you'll be able to see the delicious combos. You have to remember...I have had access to the rules for quite some time. I am a very competitive player. That's what I do. And I am excited for our future.

Great point. We are merely peeking through a crack in the wall trying to guess what the shadow on the otherside is amd it's worth remembering that. Plus we're building on top of the rather solid C:SM core so I don't know how we could be bad with such a diverse base.

 

How many times have players been up in arms about rules that seem to be too powerful or too weak, only to later learn that the outrage was overblown.

I distinctly remember saying that our current rules were amazing due to all of the movement shenanigans we could do in an objective world and everyone told me that I was full of crap, because all of these other chapters get buffs in close combat.

 

It took 6 months for that to sink in for the majority of the BT playerbase and to realize I wasn't just blowing smoke up your a**es. The same is going be true here.

Okay, but is the Black Tide finally back?

Always has been

[Waaagh?]

 

 

<snip>

 

I'm going to laugh when this is completely and utterly wrong lol. 

There is nothing to suggest our FNP litany is gone, and nothing to suggest that a primaris unit won't get to use xhuman for 2cp as it works now. We are close enough to release that I think we would have caught wind of that. 

I also highly doubt that GW is going to make a brand new space marine core unit for a brand new release, bad.

 

What exactly do you think I'm wrong about?

 

A big crusader squad is going to be minimum 400 pts. probably more with guns and upgrades.  A unit that big will be the focal point for support, so all the HQ characters will be built around supporting it.  Add in that character support and you're looking at an all-in of ~700 points based around this unit.

 

It can't go into LCC anymore because <PRIMARIS>, which means it's foot-slogging.  I suppose you could "Outflank" it (stratagem), but at 20 CP it will cost 3 CP. 

It's going to be a VERY big  footprint, which means keeping it out of LOS is not possible.  YWhile you should be able to get soft cover, the LOS issue means literally your opponent's entire army will focus on it.

 

-There is nothing in the Neophyte modeling to suggest smokescreen, nor is that a fluffy tactic for BT.  I will bet my next paycheck that they are losing <SMOKESCREEN>

-While I admit to a bit of "sky is falling" regarding the 5+ FnP littany, so far it seems they have been hitting all our best stuff from 8th edition with the nerf bat, either lightly or heavily, but hitting it with the nerf bat nonetheless.

-Re: Transhuman....what are you on about??  The Stratagem literally specifies 1 CP for 5 models, and 2 CP for up to 10. The only reason it didn't go beyond that is because when it was written, there was no paradigm for Primaris units ever having more than 10 models.  You really think they are going to let us off with a 20 MAN unit, and not modify the CP expenditure for it? 

As for your last bit:

 

I also highly doubt that GW is going to make a brand new space marine core unit for a brand new release, bad. 

 

You're just really not watching GW's releases if you think this is true.  There is virtually no corollary between "new stuff" and being "good".  Reivers are still garbage 3 years after they came out.  Gladiators are garbage.  The SoB Castigator is garbage.  SoB Paragon Warsuits are...not garbage but certainly overpriced.  Sometimes stuff is good, sometimes it's not.

Well get ready to pay up buddy because they do have Smokescreen!

[BitsHammer]

 

 

So I have stayed away and not dropped any further hints on here, as per request. But I did say that we were going to need to adapt. I did not say we were going to be less competitive.

 

Just consume the book, let your emotions idle down a little...and you'll be able to see the delicious combos. You have to remember...I have had access to the rules for quite some time. I am a very competitive player. That's what I do. And I am excited for our future.

Great point. We are merely peeking through a crack in the wall trying to guess what the shadow on the otherside is amd it's worth remembering that. Plus we're building on top of the rather solid C:SM core so I don't know how we could be bad with such a diverse base.

 

How many times have players been up in arms about rules that seem to be too powerful or too weak, only to later learn that the outrage was overblown.

I distinctly remember saying that our current rules were amazing due to all of the movement shenanigans we could do in an objective world and everyone told me that I was full of crap, because all of these other chapters get buffs in close combat.

 

It took 6 months for that to sink in for the majority of the BT playerbase and to realize I wasn't just blowing smoke up your a**es. The same is going be true here.

Okay, but is the Black Tide finally back?

Always has been

[Kastor Krieg]

Hey, 9x19. Can you please tone down the aggressive and vulgar negative hyberbole? It's pretty obnoxious to read, I don't come here for more of the "everything is :cuss" message.

[BitsHammer]

Really really hard to please the BT crowd here, yeesh

I am excited enough to break my "no pre-orders" rule. Only thing that would legitimately make me happier is if Land Raider Crusaders could carry Primaris Crusaders.

[Kastor Krieg]

 

 

Its almost as if there was something behind Laeroths "we will have to rethink" whenever rules discussions started rdvolving around DP

Here is what I'm "rethinking".

Buy BT models.

Paint them black.

Call them "counts as Blood Angels"

 

:-D

That's asking for a Crusade.

At the very least it's a paddlin'.