What to expect from 9e CSM

[WrathOfTheLion]

Relics and all could be similar to F&F with some changes, but could still make a big difference. I know on the SM side, the Dark Angels psychic powers they were talking about for weeks, even though they were really only slightly modified from their 8E rules.

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

Evidence indicates otherwise. Your generous interpretations aside, please don't shovel coal on that particular fire in what has been a fruitful discussion. Thanks

Yea, we’ll agree to disagree, and I’ll bow out. The thread’s still going well and this is just gonna derail it. I hope people can see the bright side of what have been some great rumors so far.

[Clockworkchris]

Rumours are just that - rumours. Untill proven they are neither false nor true, schroedingers cat and all that...

 

As for rumours please do give us a hint about the new mortals comming in the dex - if your source has any info on that ;)

 

Also - are the WL traits and relics really just a copy/paste from the old supplement?

 

As it goes for the Greater possessed it kind of makes sense - they are greater right now when we have the old, small sculpts of regular posessed. I think the new possessed will be of the same size as the current greater possessed.

The warlord trait is entirely new, no where in CSM have we had a rule the negates obsec apart from the BL stratagem.

 

The relic is inspired from vigilus ablaze. Though the one leaked is better.

 

VIGILUS ABLAZED

Jump pack relic if you move over a unit roll a d6 for every model on a 6 it causes 1MW (so you could fly over in the novemebt phase and charge over a unit and pop this off)

 

Leaked relic

Jump pack if you move over a unit or simply charge a unit on a 2+, inflict d3 MW.

[MegaVolt87]

Greater possessed disappearing, is odd. Its possible they could be rolled into possessed as an upgrade with points or per a stratagem that upgrades 1-2 possessed to greater possessed. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by MegaVolt87

[She Who Thirsts]

Greater possessed disappearing, is odd. Its possible they could be rolled into possessed as an upgrade with points or per a stratagem that upgrades 1-2 possessed to greater possessed. 

 

It's it's true, for me it's really poop.  Losing units is never a good thing, especially one that's so new as well.

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

Could greater possessed be a unit upgrade like Sword Brethren in BT Crusader units? Might explain them disappearing as an independent entry.

 

Edit: missed that MegaVolt87 guessed this one already! /edit

 

My other thought is that maybe the new possessed models will be the same size and style as the old greater possessed?

 

Do we know what the unit size is for new possessed units?

Edited January 26, 2022 by Brother Captain Vakarian

[WrathOfTheLion]

Greater possessed disappearing, is odd. Its possible they could be rolled into possessed as an upgrade with points or per a stratagem that upgrades 1-2 possessed to greater possessed. 

That would certainly be strange. If it's correct that the datasheet is gone, there's got to be some other way to get them. Those models are new and almost certainly would be part of the Combat Patrol, so there's got to be more context to that.

[Maschinenpriester]

 

 

Greater possessed disappearing, is odd. Its possible they could be rolled into possessed as an upgrade with points or per a stratagem that upgrades 1-2 possessed to greater possessed.

That would certainly be strange. If it's correct that the datasheet is gone, there's got to be some other way to get them. Those models are new and almost certainly would be part of the Combat Patrol, so there's got to be more context to that.

Maybe the nwe posessed come on 40 mm bases and are very similar to the greater possessed. Then the datasheet could say min size of a squads is 2 guys?

Like arco flaggelants in the battle sisters combat patrol maybe.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Maschinenpriester

[Clockworkchris]

Possessed will be in a unit of 10

[She Who Thirsts]

 

Greater possessed disappearing, is odd. Its possible they could be rolled into possessed as an upgrade with points or per a stratagem that upgrades 1-2 possessed to greater possessed. 

That would certainly be strange. If it's correct that the datasheet is gone, there's got to be some other way to get them. Those models are new and almost certainly would be part of the Combat Patrol, so there's got to be more context to that.

 

What makes it very hard for me to believe that one is that the greater possessed are fairly new and that Death guard possessed exist too.  It would probably require two new kits to satisfy both types of possessed.

 

Also with being a unit of 10, is that the max?  Or the minimum number?

Edited January 26, 2022 by She Who Thirsts

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I don't like to put my Moderator helmet on, but I feel it is necessary.  In the last few pages of this thread, a disturbing trend has emerged where members are attacking and criticizing each other for their views on these rumours, rather than focusing on the rumours themselves. Fortunately, those involved appear to have pulled back from the brink such that I've put the safety back on my meltagun, but further such posting will be met with my full fury and wrath.

 

So:

 

1.  Discuss and debate the rumoured changes, not the persons and personalities of those discussing the rumours.

 

2.  Do not attack certain viewpoints or stereotype those that have them.  This means no broad stroke complaints over what viewpoints posters may have.

 

3.  Play nice, be civil.

 

Otherwise, my melta is waiting....

Edited January 26, 2022 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Dhar'Neth]

Can we get some rumors for the HYDRA DOMINATUS? ;)

[Danielatar]

Would love to hear more about what stratagems are coming and anything to do with Black Legion. I for one am happy to just have rumours to read that are not too outlandish

[Cheex]

 

I imagine that the full Terminator options will be in Legends. If not, it’ll be very, very easy to fix - just take the “every five” restriction off, and Terminators are back to normal. If an opponent gives you guff over either option, just stare at them so hard that they either relent or until their head goes Scanners all over the place.

The restrictions are in the datasheet for DG so legends would not work. But in friendly games the best would be to just ignore it i think.

 

 

It wouldn't be unheard-of to add or modify datasheet options via Legends. The Forge World Legends document does exactly that for Sonic Dreadnoughts, for example.

 

In a casual narrative game, I'd be totally fine with my opponent removing the number restriction on these options. In a Points game, use the same escalating points values as Tau battlesuits, and in a PL game just slap an extra PL onto the unit and that's good enough for me.

 

Say what you will about GW limiting the options in boxes of Terminators/Havocs/normal CSM.

 

And I can understand people who invested lots of time and money into converting their (soon to be invalid) squads into pure plasma bombs or such.

 

BUT

for me personally it is quite relieving not having to search ebay or 3rd party for plasma/melta/chaincannon bits to make my squads "competative". 

Not having to magnetize every arm and every gun... keeps a little pressure of me while assembling new models.

 

I am really looking forward to explore a new codex and all the "new" ways to play my Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Creations of Bile. ^.^

 

While I am leaning towards this opinion myself (and this is after spending an absurd amount of time back in 5th and 6th editions hoarding combi-weapons from bits sites), the counter argument is that if Terminators end up the same as Blightlords, then it means that the "base" loadout for Termies will be combi-bolters and chainaxes. But the box doesn't have this many for 5 models, which means that if the "competitive loadout" turns out to be 5 dudes with combi-bolters and chainaxes, then the player is stuck in the same quandary of having to find those bits somewhere.

 

No matter which way you cut it, GW faces a problem. And no matter the solution, there will be people who are impacted by it. The closest I can think of to an ideal situation is for GW to release FW weapon upgrade kits (like with AoD and Necromunda) so players can just run whatever they like. But even then, that would invariably open them up to (valid) criticism that they're nickel-and-diming customers via the plastic equivalent of DLC.

 

For my part, I lucked out with this Terminator change. Turns out the Terminator squad I've been running in Crusade since the dawn of 9th will be legal with these new rules, even though I had every imaginable option available when I assembled them. But I feel for the people who have gone out of their way to put together squads full of specific weapons.

[Dhar'Neth]

The more I think about restrictions on combi-weapons the stranger they seem - the kit does have different number of different combi weapons. At least the Blightlords have one-of each on sprue. Seems odd to be able to have two combi-meltas but only one-combi plasma? Also Blightlord don’t have restrictions on melee weapons.

[Khornestar]

The more I think about restrictions on combi-weapons the stranger they seem - the kit does have different number of different combi weapons. At least the Blightlords have one-of each on sprue. Seems odd to be able to have two combi-meltas but only one-combi plasma? Also Blightlord don’t have restrictions on melee weapons.

That last sentence is key. Good to know. When it comes down to it, what I really want to do is close the gap and rip everything apart with chainfists.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Khornestar

[tinpact]

Yeah, people tend to see "restricted loadout" and understand "exactly what's in the box" but I think the only unit that actually does that is Plague Marines. Blightlords come with 3x baleswords and a few axes, but they're free to take either for the full unit anyway.

 

Besides, it would never make sense for a kit with such a bizarre selection of weapons. Again, I think it's safe to bet on power fists and lightning claws staying. Combi-weapons are probably going to 1 per 5 plus one for the champion (I think Raptors have a similar restriction?).

 

As for Chosen, I was expecting a bump to 2w and similar wargear options but now they've apparently got 3w and cult units are out I wonder what kind of role they're intended to fill.

[Khornestar]

Yeah, people tend to see "restricted loadout" and understand "exactly what's in the box" but I think the only unit that actually does that is Plague Marines. Blightlords come with 3x baleswords and a few axes, but they're free to take either for the full unit anyway.

 

Besides, it would never make sense for a kit with such a bizarre selection of weapons. Again, I think it's safe to bet on power fists and lightning claws staying. Combi-weapons are probably going to 1 per 5 plus one for the champion (I think Raptors have a similar restriction?).

 

As for Chosen, I was expecting a bump to 2w and similar wargear options but now they've apparently got 3w and cult units are out I wonder what kind of role they're intended to fill.

 

A reliable invuln save/to hit bonus would be pretty slick for a unit of hammer chosen. They have until now been our only unit that can take more than one, but all the obvious reasons prevented it from being worthwhile. Now that might change. Word Bearers on the charge, for example, at least there's something there.

 

I always thought a unit like chosen should have a strat that gives them re-rolls, to account for their blessings and not require a buff character but still require a resource. Oh well, such is wishlisting. We'll see, but I too feel that there's gotta be something special about them beyond their loadout with all the other wacky changes.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Khornestar

[Clockworkchris]

From what ive been told chosen are like csm troops in terms of strength and resilience, so no invuls . I have no info on their attack profile/movement/ws/bs. I was told they gain an additionnal trait that you can choose.

[Marshal Loss]

Being able to pick an additional trait/ability reminds me of 8th ed Chaos Chosen in WHFB, and would be very flavourful. No invul could well hamstring the unit given 9th ed's absurd lethality but it's obviously too early to tell at this stage.

[Khornestar]

From what ive been told chosen are like csm troops in terms of strength and resilience, so no invuls . I have no info on their attack profile/movement/ws/bs. I was told they gain an additionnal trait that you can choose.

Hey fair enough, though I’m excited to see what the traits are. If they’re appropriately priced it’s not a huge deal to not have anything innate. We have psychic powers and prayers for adding invulns. And who knows what else?

 

Advance and charge, similar things.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Being able to pick an additional trait/ability reminds me of 8th ed Chaos Chosen in WHFB, and would be very flavourful. No invul could well hamstring the unit given 9th ed's absurd lethality but it's obviously too early to tell at this stage.

It reminds me of 3.5 Chaos Marines (Non-Marked units, or Marked units in the unaligned Legions, could take a Veteran Skill for the squad). Similarly, 4th Edition Chosen came with Infiltration by default.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Be interesting to see what they do with emperor's children - from what little we've seen here (the banner, the rumour that they can always hit on 2s in melee even with -1 to hit) it looks like the shootiest of 8th ed. legions is becoming one of the assaultiest in 9th.

 

Not to say that there hasn't already been some movement in that direction, what with the Vigilus stratagems and relics that make it easier to get into combat.

 

I do hope they keep a balance, though... EC are a legion that should attempt to do everything well, though in my mind that doesn't mean they should be the best at everything (well, they are best at thinking they are best. :) ).

[Clockworkchris]

 

Here are the old veteran skills if we want to theorize while I await more details.

[Marshal Loss]

 

Being able to pick an additional trait/ability reminds me of 8th ed Chaos Chosen in WHFB, and would be very flavourful. No invul could well hamstring the unit given 9th ed's absurd lethality but it's obviously too early to tell at this stage.

It reminds me of 3.5 Chaos Marines (Non-Marked units, or Marked units in the unaligned Legions, could take a Veteran Skill for the squad). Similarly, 4th Edition Chosen came with Infiltration by default.

 

 

I was thinking more of blessings/daemonic abilities as opposed to veteran skills given the latter's wider applicability in 3.5 as that's what made Chosen really special, but yeah, 3.5 Chosen had an absolute smorgasbord of options even by the standards of that codex. No exaggeration to say that it's probably the most memorable unit entry of all time for me.

 

Be interesting to see what they do with emperor's children - from what little we've seen here (the banner, the rumour that they can always hit on 2s in melee even with -1 to hit) it looks like the shootiest of 8th ed. legions is becoming one of the assaultiest in 9th.

 

Not to say that there hasn't already been some movement in that direction, what with the Vigilus stratagems and relics that make it easier to get into combat.

 

I do hope they keep a balance, though... EC are a legion that should attempt to do everything well, though in my mind that doesn't mean they should be the best at everything (well, they are best at thinking they are best. ).

It's definitely a tricky line to walk for the folks writing our rules. I think the 8th ed F&F rules did the job really well, with some aspects reflecting tactical brilliance, others stressing the use of sonic weaponry and dueling, and our trait effectively a substitute for the traditional Slaaneshi initiative bonus. Currently EC armies can build in a variety of directions even if we're melee-leaning and that's ideally how I'd like it to stay.

 

One thing I'd like to see is - while we wait for our own book and model range - a CP unit upgrade similar to what we've seen elsewhere (e.g. World Eaters have/had their Red Butchers Terminator upgrade). Upgrading a unit of Noise Marines to Kakophoni or Terminators to Phoenix Guard or Lascannon-armed Havocs to Sunkillers, something like that, would be nice and flavourful. There's obviously a lot of room to go that route for other Legions as well if they desired it (e.g. an upgrade for Possessed into Gal Vorbak or Raptors into Ashen Circle for Word Bearers, Terminators into Atramentar for Night Lords, etc).