Predicting Primaris (Again): Will the generic range be "complete" in 10th Edition?

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Well, we did at least finally get a better look at the jump-enabled Tacticus variant from Space Marine 2:

 

 

I am actually not taking this as confirmation that Primaris jump Assault squads will look like this on the tabletop. Outside of the inevitable Titus model, which very well may be released in Jump form with this armor variant.

 

But for the main range, I tend to think that the eventual “Oppressors” will be wearing Omnis armor and probably share a kit with the Suppressors. There’s not a LOT of difference between Omnis and what we have here, but there is enough. Plus the fact that it was noted that the GW designers helped with this suit specifically for the game makes me think it’s a bespoke armor pattern and not indicative of what the official Primaris Jump assault squad will look like. Even given the lead time of the game, I’m sure Jes Goodwin and Co. already had their Primaris Assault Marine EQ designed. But they went ahead and designed a modified version of Tacticus for the game so that the lead character wouldn’t have to actually change into a different suit of armor but instead just throw on a jump pack and either add boot thrusters or just have them magically roll out from his greaves.

 

That said, I actually would not mind if they went with this “Titus-pattern” armor for the Primaris Jump Assault squad. I think it would be cool to eventually end up with four different jump squads, all with different specialties and all wearing different armor patterns:

 

·  Inceptors – Modified Gravis. Heavy atmospheric-entry “in your face” shock troops

·  Suppressors – Omnis-clad “Devastators” whose heavy-ish armor is more about providing a stable platform for the heavy weapons they carry (sorry, still not buying the claim that the designers ever intended that those things would be fired mid-air, latter-day lore writing and artwork aside)

·  Oppressors – mid-range mobile troops in modified Tacticus. Loadout-wise, basically a cross between Intercessors and Assault Intercessors, but with higher mobility than either.

·  “Shriekers” – melee-focused veterans in Shrike-patter armor, slicing and dicing with the Lightning Claws but carrying a (suppressed?) (heavy?) Bolt Pistol as well.

 

Again, my major reason for thinking we won’t see this is that the confirmation that the GW studio worked on the design for Titus’ armor really makes it apparent that this was NOT an existing Primaris Jump Assault design. And I simply can’t imagine that the Primaris version of the Assault Marines hadn’t already been designed by that point, even if we go back several years for the origins of Titus’ suit. I just see Primaris Assault EQs being one of the first designs that Goodwin et al came up with, probably very shortly following the basic Tacticus look of the Intercessors and Hellblasters. Between them, those three squads would be the equivalents of the most basic Firstborn units – Tactical, Assault, and Devastator. And no, I don’t think for a second that anyone at GW ever considered the Inceptors to be the Primaris Assault Marine EQ – I am sure that pattern came up only after both the basic Assault Marine EQ and “Terminator-Lite” Aggressors were designed.

 

Anyway, nice to have something new to ponder, even if I'm not personally convinced that it will show up in a generic Primaris unit any more than Tacticus units getting to wield Melta Rifles (another feat Titus pulled off in the trailer).

 

FWIW though, if anyone's still hanging on for the Brutalis / Desolator official unveiling, there is some scuttlebutt about them being part of a Christmas Day reveal (I'm personally not expecting them before LVO), but in the meantime Auspex Tactics broke down their supposed stats a few days ago:

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Lord Nord

[Blindhamster]

Did you see the image over on news and rumours? Seems to show a unit of these guys, with chainswords and pistols not unlike the Assault Intercessors 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Yeah, I don't believe that was up at the time I posted or at least I hadn't seen it yet. But yeah, much like the Outriders it looks like they have a full squad with the existing Assault Intercessor loadout.

 

Like I said, I wouldn't mind if they did release a full squad (rather than just a special Titus model) and these guys ended up being the Primaris Assault EQ. I just don't think the timing works for them to have been what Goodwin et al originally planned for as the main Primaris Jump Assault squad. But I could be wrong or they may have adjusted plans since (which could be part of the reason why the MPK Suppressors have taken so long to release, if they were originally designed as a multi-build with an Assault variant).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can’t wait to see what melee options they get.

[Blindhamster]

I think the suppressors and omnis armour was a failed experiment, no other primaris armour variant has had nothing but a snap fit kit on a single unit. 
 

I think the original plan may have been to have the assault based unit be in phobos like shrike though (or maybe a Phobos variant like the original primaris chaplain uses), yeah. 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I think the suppressors and omnis armour was a failed experiment, no other primaris armour variant has had nothing but a snap fit kit on a single unit. 
 

 

I like you BH :) Don't say this :).

[Blindhamster]

Could absolutely be wrong, but they do stand out at the moment (which could be a reason to think as Lord Nord says and that they'll get a melee or some other variant at some point soon.

Tbf Inceptors are technically a unique unit too being a non-standard variant of gravis.

Who knows, perhaps the armour from the trailer IS omnis armour, just slightly slimmed down as its not on a heavy weapons omnis platform, similar to how inceptors have a variation on gravis

 

 

comparing the suppressor to the armour in the game, they both have the stabilisers on the top of their packs, suppressors don't have any other lift on their packs though, suppressors boosters on the legs are a LOT chunkier, and they have the extra support on their ankles plus the shock absorbers. The video game armour has intakes more like the classic assault marines, albeit somewhat smaller. both otherwise look to be wearing pretty standard mkX for the torso and arms and upper legs. Suppressors have quite a different helm design.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Blindhamster

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

One thing I love about Inceptors they are proof gravis is not TEQ nor was it ever meant to be. Jump pack terminators… right.

[Blindhamster]

Sort of off topic, but that really depends on what you mean by terminator equivalent? Gravis clearly isn’t terminator armour, it has a different name and looks different (although there are absolutely visual queues that link them).

 

but, gravis clearly is intended as the durable mkx armour, it’s the tanky armour that is considerably bulkier and apparently intended to more easily manage heavier weapons.

 

that said, I think it had enough push back with aggressors and original gravis captain that GW rethought gravis somewhat. And based on rumours at least, an actual terminator unit is coming. That wouldn’t be a terminator equivalent though, that would just be terminators

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Primaris terminator to be exact. 

[jimbo1701]

Definitely hoping for jump infantry and the SM2 reveals add more weight to this. Can be the main infantry type in the starter set and if they are fast attack / non obsec will not make assault intercessors redundant. 
 

hoping for something like this model wise:

 

pre-10th waves - melee dreadnought (to replace ironclad) and missile infantry (to replace devastators). Some named characters to be upgraded to primaris. 
 

starter set, whether blood angels or not. Jump characters. Jump infantry. Neo-terminators. Jump elites. 
 

wave release - multiparts of the above. New scouts as a cheap, flexible unit. More tanks built off the impulsor such as an extended rhino equivalent. More generic characters with either jump / teq or bike option. 
 

specific chapter release - primaris character update and add in unique entries for chapters such as space wolves and blood angels. 
 

in terms of rules / book changes, hoping for the following:

 

simplification of the rules, such as removing shock assault / atsknf  simply improving stats instead. 
removal of firstborn to legends. I love firstborn, but the time feels right now. 
With this, incorporating the chapters back into the main book so we end up with a large book but no need for supplements. May be possible with chapters such as the codex compliant ones that only have a handful of datasheets and rules pages. Along the lines of the chaos marines books in terms of strats etc

Edited December 11, 2022 by jimbo1701
Typos

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Seeing that cult legions have their own books with the exception of EC it’s not a good assumption that they will roll chapters back into the SM codex.

[jimbo1701]

7 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Seeing that cult legions have their own books with the exception of EC it’s not a good assumption that they will roll chapters back into the SM codex.

The divergent chapters used to have their own books, just speculation (not assumption) that the chapters who currently have 9th Ed supps may retain them and those that still have 8th Ed ones may get rolled back into the codex. IF (big if) they legends the firstborn stuff that would be 40ish datasheets removed from the book, allowing some wiggle room for new data sheets, though perhaps not enough room to roll back codex chapters into the book as well. 

[Blindhamster]

I just dont see firstborn getting sent to legends yet. I COULD see any characters and units only available in resin possibly getting the treatment though.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I also don't think Firstborn will be going Legends in 10th. Like the thread title says, I think the Primaris line will be essentially "complete" in 10th, but that's just too early to completely jettison Firstborn units from the codex.

 

Plus I don't even think that all of the Primaris units we'll see in 10th will be coming in the 2023 wave. I expect another wave in 2025 or so, mirroring what happened in 8th, and that's where we'll see Primaris Scouts, Scout Bikers, and I could see the inevitable Shrike-pattern Vanguard Vet EQ squad being pushed back as well (since I think we all expect that at least some kind of Primaris Jump Assault squad will show up next year and I'm sure they'd see those two squads as cannibalizing a fair amount of each other's sales if released simultaneously).

 

FWIW though, Suppressors aren't snap fit. Not that it really matters to your point.

[Blindhamster]

No I guess they're not, but they're even more mono-pose than most primaris kits, similar to the infiltrators that came in the same box. Very obviously test/pre-multipart kits.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I could see them slowly start to move some FB units over to Legends but not the complete line… it’s leaving too much money on the table plus would be too controversial.

[WrathOfTheLion]

7 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I could see them slowly start to move some FB units over to Legends but not the complete line… it’s leaving too much money on the table plus would be too controversial.

I could see them doing it for some small stuff, but as you said, it's leaving money on the table.

 

While BA/DA/SW haven't been upgraded, they'll stay I think without any doubt. We might get one, maybe two of those chapters updated through 10E?

[jimbo1701]

Think we will see any character casualties such as yarrick? Tycho is a certain, I wonder if arjac or lukas may also be potentials. Then of course there’s sicarius…. 
 

What ever happened to the blood angels tactical squad? Very odd that it went out of production then never returned. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

On 12/10/2022 at 9:09 PM, Blindhamster said:

I think the suppressors and omnis armour was a failed experiment, no other primaris armour variant has had nothing but a snap fit kit on a single unit. 
 

I think the original plan may have been to have the assault based unit be in phobos like shrike though (or maybe a Phobos variant like the original primaris chaplain uses), yeah. 

I think Omnis was intended to be the "airborne" marine armor choice. It was introduced cautiously with a single unit, the surpressor, at first to gauge reception I assume. The only other instance of it, is the crew of the new landspeeders, that uses the helmet. (Though as you say, Shrike deserves mention too, as while he is listed as using phobos his armor much more similiar to omnis than the former, even if the two are similiar by virtue of being the 'lighter' variants).

 

Surpressors were by far the most criticized element of shadowspear, mostly due the lack of visually apparent thrusters. The reveal of essentially flight versions of Tacticus armor (ie adding leg thrusters and neo-jump packs) in space marine II does put the future of omnis releases into question. Perhaps we'll see them again as crew members of future primaris flyers, but for now i feel the their future is uncertain, and I'm not holding my breath for that retooled surpressor kit I was so certain would be forthcoming in the past.

 

On 12/11/2022 at 2:45 AM, Blindhamster said:

Sort of off topic, but that really depends on what you mean by terminator equivalent? Gravis clearly isn’t terminator armour, it has a different name and looks different (although there are absolutely visual queues that link them).

 

but, gravis clearly is intended as the durable mkx armour, it’s the tanky armour that is considerably bulkier and apparently intended to more easily manage heavier weapons.

 

that said, I think it had enough push back with aggressors and original gravis captain that GW rethought gravis somewhat. And based on rumours at least, an actual terminator unit is coming. That wouldn’t be a terminator equivalent though, that would just be terminators

 

On 12/11/2022 at 3:25 AM, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Primaris terminator to be exact. 

 

Wasn't one variant of the rumor that the Primaris Terminators were essentially Gravis marines armed with terminator weapons? (neo storm bolters? Powerfists?).

[Captain Idaho]

I originally thought we'd definitely see Primaris Terminator squads, but it just doesn't seem to work when you compare these Primaris Terminators in concept to Chaos Marines. They'll be too big and make the Chaos Terminators seem tiny.

 

Dunno. Just seems like it'll smash the theme of Chaos Marines.

 

In much the same way the removal of Firstborn seems like it'll remove the direct parallel to their darker brothers. They'll be a little smaller and have no common weapons. "Look at this corruption of your vehicles and despair" is responded to with "meh, we don't use those things."

 

Dang. I don't know what to think anymore!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

There’s been quite a few rumors from fairly reliable sources so I think there’s a good chance we will see them.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

There’s been quite a few rumors from fairly reliable sources so I think there’s a good chance we will see them.

Don't you dare Frodo me BBF!!!! :P

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

But what about about Bilbo ??!

[phandaal]

8 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Wasn't one variant of the rumor that the Primaris Terminators were essentially Gravis marines armed with terminator weapons? (neo storm bolters? Powerfists?).

 

That is Aggressors.

 

Storm Bolters + Power Fists: Auto-Boltstorm Gauntlets, Cyclone Missile Launcher: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher.