Predicting Primaris (Again): Will the generic range be "complete" in 10th Edition?

[Orange Knight]

Yeah, in fairness the Sword Brethren can all take power swords, so it's not too much of a stretch.

[Djangomatic82]

I don't think anyone's mentioned it,  9 pages is a lot to go through, but I'd bet an Xmas battle box that in the 10e codex, Eradicator's will lose their double shoot to the new Desolator's,  just like the  Aggressors lost it to the Eradicator's in the move to 9.

[Lemondish]

18 hours ago, Djangomatic82 said:

I don't think anyone's mentioned it,  9 pages is a lot to go through, but I'd bet an Xmas battle box that in the 10e codex, Eradicator's will lose their double shoot to the new Desolator's,  just like the  Aggressors lost it to the Eradicator's in the move to 9.

The loss of these passive, base abilities was felt so keenly by my Deathwatch.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s a stretch to say that because they did it to Agressors they’ll do it Eradicators as well .

[Marshal Reinhard]

If they DID do it, would be able actually wanna invest in desolators? would feel rather apparent their suppossed double shoot ability would be living on borrowed time.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

If they DID do it, would be able actually wanna invest in desolators? would feel rather apparent their suppossed double shoot ability would be living on borrowed time.

Most rules are living on borrowed time.

 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Today's formal announcement of Warhammer Day promises that we will be seeing "loads of awesome new Warhammer 40,000 miniatures" during the online preview.

Dare we hope that this will include a teaser of the Brutalis and/or Desolators? The well is running pretty dry on other factions to show off. We've already seen most if not all of the upcoming Guard refresh and the Votann have been completely unveiled. Can't see them going ALL World Eaters for this preview.

Guess we'll know in fifteen days. The event is scheduled for October 8th.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

33 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

Today's formal announcement of Warhammer Day promises that we will be seeing "loads of awesome new Warhammer 40,000 miniatures" during the online preview.

Dare we hope that this will include a teaser of the Brutalis and/or Desolators? The well is running pretty dry on other factions to show off. We've already seen most if not all of the upcoming Guard refresh and the Votann have been completely unveiled. Can't see them going ALL World Eaters for this preview.

Guess we'll know in fifteen days. The event is scheduled for October 8th.

I mean there’s a lot we could still see with guard.

the only things we’ve seen clearly are new creed, Kasrkin, and sentinels.

we still need a clear look at the shotgun squad, and an actual look at the rogal dorn.

hopefully there might still be one or two units getting a refresh to show off.

[Blindhamster]

Suspect we will see nothing about marines, except a brief teaser at the very end

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Suspect we will see nothing about marines, except a brief teaser at the very end

Tbh I hope not.

I don’t really want to see anything about new marines until after 10th is announced.

leaks and rumors fine, I just think it’s stupid to have so many releases all focused on marines in one edition

[Blindhamster]

Tbf, marines have actually not been too bad for releases this edition? I guess templars, but otherwise, not much really. 
 

meanwhile, we actually saw a lot of great updates for other factions. 

[Orange Knight]

Aside from Templars, Marines have not had an overwhelming number of releases over the last two years.

Heck, other factions have received more, so I'm eagerly anticipating more Astartes.

I'd love to see both generic units, and chapter specific models. Considering Astartes generate 60%+ of GW's total sales they have been very restrained. I suspect the mountains of HH releases might have something to do with this.

[Lemondish]

On 9/23/2022 at 7:40 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Tbh I hope not.

I don’t really want to see anything about new marines until after 10th is announced.

leaks and rumors fine, I just think it’s stupid to have so many releases all focused on marines in one edition

Wasn't the wave at the start of 9th the only chapter independent Loyalist Astartes release we've seen this edition?

Doesn't seem to be anything like 8th edition.

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, Lemondish said:

Wasn't the wave at the start of 9th the only chapter independent Loyalist Astartes release we've seen this edition?

Yes but it was a big wave (albeit spread out). From memory we got the models in Indomitus plus the following:

• Bladeguard MPK
• Heavy Intercessors
• Gravis Captain with rifle
• Gravis captain with melee weapon
• Gladius Tank
• Firestrike turret
• Invader ATV
• Assault Intercessors
• Hammerfall Bunker

Granted this is not as big as 8th where we had a launch wave and a Phobos wave but it is still fairly substantial.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

The MPK Eradicators, Storm Speeders, Chaplain on Bike, and Primaris Techmarine were part of that initial wave as well, although the non-HBR Gravis Captain was not. That didn't come out until early 2022, along with the new Ancient.

Possibly worth noting as well that GW certainly didn't plan on it taking as long as it did for that initial wave to complete. If it hadn't been for Nurgle's Wrath, all of the kits that didn't stagger out of the gate until early 2021 would have been out in time for the 2020 holiday season. So we'd be at almost the two-year mark from the last substantial Space Marine wave. And even as-is, we're almost two years out from the last codex, a near-unthinkable blasphemy.

Plus, as I've said before, I'm not really expecting anything for this next wave aside from the kits Valrak's sauce has hinted at: Brutalis Dread and Desolator squad. While I think there are still some no-brainer generic models yet to come on top of that (including a generic upgrade kit that will, among other things, effectively turn the Intercessor Squad into taller Tacticals) I don't expect those until the 10th-Ed launch wave in summer/fall of next year.

[Marshal Reinhard]

7 hours ago, Lord Nord said:

Plus, as I've said before, I'm not really expecting anything for this next wave aside from the kits Valrak's sauce has hinted at: Brutalis Dread and Desolator squad. While I think there are still some no-brainer generic models yet to come on top of that (including a generic upgrade kit that will, among other things, effectively turn the Intercessor Squad into taller Tacticals) I don't expect those until the 10th-Ed launch wave in summer/fall of next year.

jump pack assault intercessor or whatever they'll be called should be at the top of the list. We've in essence already seen a glimpse of them through the small gameplay clip of Titus in the SM2 trailer

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would like to see Primaris Captain and Librarian mounted on Outrider bikes.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

2 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

jump pack assault intercessor or whatever they'll be called should be at the top of the list. We've in essence already seen a glimpse of them through the small gameplay clip of Titus in the SM2 trailer

Oh, no doubt.

It's been clear from the start that GW wanted to avoid directly competing with the "big five" Space Marine units:

• Tacticals
• Assault
• Devastators
• Terminators
• Scouts

Thus, we were fed all the marketing talking points about how "Oh no, Primaris aren't REPLACING existing Marines! Heavens, no! The Primaris are here to fit IN BETWEEN all of your existing units!"

So, we got watered-down Tactical wannabes where the heavy/special option is limited to an Auxiliary Grenade Launcher.

We got a Devastator-ish squad that neutered itself by all committing to all plasma, all the time (even the Sergeant, who had the option of extending that single-mindedness to his pistol).

Boltstorm Aggressors were a sadder version of the Power Fist and Storm Bolter Termies, with the Cyclone Missile Launcher chopped up, downstatted, and spread out over the squad.

Inceptors and Reivers were a little bit further out, almost like their mission directive was "Be SOMETHING like Assault Marines or Scouts, but change it up enough that no one will ever think you're GOOD at that role."

 

But then something called 9th happened and we saw Assault Intercessors who were equipped exactly like Assault Marines... except again in the interest of not hurting the feelings of the Assault Marines or their owners, they had to leave their jump capability at home. But to make them feel a little better, they were allowed to hop on a bike with the same loadout and call themselves "Outriders" (but then to maintain the facade that they weren't replacing the Firstborn Bike Squad, GW held back from actually releasing a customizable MPK Outrider kit, limiting their utility in 9th to a three-man set-loadout squad).

Well, I think with 10th the ever-thinning line of separation between Primaris and those "untouchable" Firstborn squads is going to evaporate. Intercessors will get an upgrade kit that, along with providing a Chapterhouse-cognizant source for Sergeant weapons, will also contain some suspiciously-Tactical Heavy and Special weapons.

Assault Intercessors will remember where they left their suit of Omnis armor and call themselves "Oppressors" or something equally magical as they retake the skies.

Gravis guys will finally have their permits for Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields approved.

Outriders will have an MPK box, be allowed to gather in groups numbering greater than three, and likely be allowed to associate with an Invader or two. And they'll have to try not to skid off the road when they encounter the abundant tears of the Firstborn Bike Squads.

Toward the end of 10th, we'll just get full-on Primaris replacements for some of the Scout kits, though they'll probably be called ReckonORs and again the entire squad will need to vote on what type of gun to take. (I say "some of the Scout kits" as I think the Land Speeder Storm is already ably replaced by the Impulsor and I refuse to believe that even GW is evil enough to foist a "Storm Speeder Storm" upon the world).

The only "archetype" squad I see still standing without direct competition at the end of 10th would be the Devastators. But even there I could see GW releasing a "Veteran Fire Support" squad box that comes quite close to matching their wargear options.

 

But yeah, TL;DR version - Primaris will probably get a REAL Assault Marine equivalent in the 10th-Ed launch wave. Might even be in the launch box, as some of the previous rumors have suggested.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Lord Nord

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

• Tacticals - Intercessors
• Assault - Assault Intercessors & BGV
• Devastators - Eradicators, Hellblasters & Inceptors
• Terminators - NA
• Scouts - Incursors & Infiltrators

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

When you list MULTIPLE counterparts for three of the archetypal squads which I said didn't have DIRECT (i.e. one-to-one, not one-to many) replacements, "NA" for another, and then just completely ignore the lack of Heavy/Special Weapons in order to try to fit the square Intercessors peg into the round Tacticals hole, you've effectively just further illustrated my already-proven point.

But I appreciate the backup anyway.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:09 PM, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

• Tacticals - Intercessors
• Assault - Assault Intercessors & BGV
• Devastators - Eradicators, Hellblasters & Inceptors
• Terminators - NA
• Scouts - Incursors & Infiltrators

Inceptors definitely aren’t the same niche as devastators…

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. 

[Mike8404]

On 9/23/2022 at 6:40 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Tbh I hope not.

I don’t really want to see anything about new marines until after 10th is announced.

leaks and rumors fine, I just think it’s stupid to have so many releases all focused on marines in one edition

Aside from Templars back in October of last year, only Indomitus Marines and Gladiator were released this edition.  I'm just ready for the generic Primaris line to finish up

Edited September 29, 2022 by Mike8404

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think the Primaris range is designed to just keep growing. The units are specialized and have a lot of overlap for example if you look at gladiators and Stormspeeders the 3 variants all line up with each other. IF GW decides to push Grav and MLs in 10th they all stink and IMO this is by design.  For non-compeitive players this is fine, but for tournament crowd this army will have a lot of churn.    

 

On 9/11/2022 at 10:02 PM, Djangomatic82 said:

I don't think anyone's mentioned it,  9 pages is a lot to go through, but I'd bet an Xmas battle box that in the 10e codex, Eradicator's will lose their double shoot to the new Desolator's,  just like the  Aggressors lost it to the Eradicator's in the move to 9.

 

I don't think they will lose it, mainly because eradicators are pretty easy unit to nerf. If melta gets worse they're bad, if GW gets rid of Strategic reserves they're bad, and if vehicles get cheaper they're bad. Aggressors really benefited from rules that allowed them to count as not moving (like the UM's doctrine bonus), and the easiest solution was getting rid of double shot.

 

If GW wants to encourage people to buy Desolators they just need to nerf melta. That hits the hammerstrike, ATV, eradicators, and the Valiant from the primaris range plus attack bikes (and maybe speeders depending on what replaces melta as the best choice).  

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:42 AM, Jorin Helm-splitter said:

I think the Primaris range is designed to just keep growing. The units are specialized and have a lot of overlap for example if you look at gladiators and Stormspeeders the 3 variants all line up with each other. IF GW decides to push Grav and MLs in 10th they all stink and IMO this is by design.  For non-compeitive players this is fine, but for tournament crowd this army will have a lot of churn.    

 

 

I don't think they will lose it, mainly because eradicators are pretty easy unit to nerf. If melta gets worse they're bad, if GW gets rid of Strategic reserves they're bad, and if vehicles get cheaper they're bad. Aggressors really benefited from rules that allowed them to count as not moving (like the UM's doctrine bonus), and the easiest solution was getting rid of double shot.

 

If GW wants to encourage people to buy Desolators they just need to nerf melta. That hits the hammerstrike, ATV, eradicators, and the Valiant from the primaris range plus attack bikes (and maybe speeders depending on what replaces melta as the best choice).  

 

 

Good thing the tournament crowd is such a tiny minority of the player base.