WH40K game Strike Force Agastus

[chapter master 454]

One realisation I think: the smaller the missiles are actually the Super-Kraks, while the two tube ones are the Super-Frags. Not sure, I am likely the only person who didn't realise this but I ain't always the sharpest for how missiles look.

 

Personally, if I can get back the table proper with marines if I were taking Brutalis personally I feel like the bolt-rifle fists are better. If you are having your dreadnought clear chaff in melee then I think there are problems; paying premium points for a big swinger means you don't want them caught up in combat for too long. Also adds flexibility imo but considering the two devastator loadouts I love the most are ether Quad Missiles or Quad Plasma for their flexibility in what they can target, that just speaks to me.

 

Then again, those of yore past may remember me being the person who wrote the Earth-Style article on playing 40k back in ye olde times I believe in 5th edition when the elements of war (Water, Fire, Air and Earth) were popular motifs on how to design your army. So naturally I like my guns and anchor units.

 

Edit: Oh yea, also forgot to add: this box is SUPER nice to get multiples off too as the units within actually can be stacked multiple times with little issue. 3 boxes gets you (I believe) 3 dreads (max allowance), 3 FULL squads of desolation (max allowance) and 3 lieutenants who I know its a meme at this point but with load-out options means you can have choice not to mention only really 1 is "wasted" technically. For boxes like this, normally you have a HQ or some other unit become unwanted and a massive drag on value but this one just hits all the right marks imo. So overall, while the missile boys may not be a slam dunk, I feel this box set and units overall are actually really good.

Edited January 31, 2023 by chapter master 454

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The next evolution of desolators 

[Orange Knight]

Do we have confirmation that the 4 small tubes are the Krack missiles?

 

That's great if so. I think if modelled shut they look decent enough. I'm just hoping that the Sgt can be equipped with the same weapon - I don't particularly want the Vengeance launcher.

 

Edit: corrected error

Edited January 31, 2023 by Orange Knight

[jaspiongitburna]

If I can make these look good, by shoulder mounting the launchers or something, I will consider buying them for my Deathwatch, as they seem to offer the firepower of devastator squad and a whirlwind combined with the being deathwatch infantry. If later down the line they can be combined into a mixed squad that will be perfect.  

 

They don't seem to offer anything I don't currently have in buckets for my legacy Chapter though

[Karhedron]

35 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Do we have confirmation that the 4 small tubes are the Krack missiles?

 

I don't think so but that is aesthetic GW used for Knight carapace launchers. 

 

In a sense it doesn't really matter if you are loading out all the squad members with the same type of missile. Simply choose the style you like best and announce to your opponent before the game begins. The only time it gets slightly confusing is if you have a mixed loadout. Then it is best to use separate styles of launchers to avoid confusions.

[Captain Idaho]

4 hours ago, chapter master 454 said:

Then again, those of yore past may remember me being the person who wrote the Earth-Style article on playing 40k back in ye olde times I believe in 5th edition when the elements of war (Water, Fire, Air and Earth) were popular motifs on how to design your army. So naturally I like my guns and anchor units.

 

Ah I remember those days. I miss those days.

 

Big guns are always fun.

[Brother Carpenter]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:22 AM, Lord Nord said:

Someone at GW really hates the idea of Primaris wielding Plasma Pistols left-handed with an organic limb.

It all comes down to rolling those one's and two's to hit.

This is the natural result. Hmm do they get an invul save against overheating plasma??? 

[Maritn]

My first reaction was that classic The Office "No... god... Nooooooooo", but to be honest the more I look at them, the better they get. Still far from fantastic and not the design I was hoping for, but okay.

 

And why do people think the small missile launchers are rotating? Just because they are round doesn't mean they have to (e.g. missile pods of Mi24). Also why would they rotate if every tube is filled with a missile? Rotating makes sense, if you only use one barrel at a time.

[Black Knight]

22 minutes ago, Maritn said:

And why do people think the small missile launchers are rotating? Just because they are round doesn't mean they have to (e.g. missile pods of Mi24). Also why would they rotate if every tube is filled with a missile? Rotating makes sense, if you only use one barrel at a time.

 

The ammo feed goes into that part of the gun, so it would make sense that its rotating and filling the ammunition from that massive belt. That would be alot simpler than the belt having to move position to fill every barrel. A bit like the Unreal Tournament missile launcher.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Black Knight

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

I don't think so but that is aesthetic GW used for Knight carapace launchers. 

 

But isn't that aesthetic more informed by the fact that the Stormspear rockets have two-thirds of the range and no guidance system? Whereas the Ironstorm missiles not only have to travel fifty percent further, but also need room for onboard guidance?

 

That's not true for the Desolators' rockets. Both are direct fire and have the same range. It therefore would seem to make more sense that the krak rocket with the lower number of shots (one) and better AP stat would be the larger, two-cylinder version while the frag rocket launcher - worse AP and with a minimum of four shots - would be the four-cylinder version.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Are all of the weapons indirect fire, or only the Sergeant one? A bit weird for a rifle type design to shoot indirect fire.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

9 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Are all of the weapons indirect fire, or only the Sergeant one? A bit weird for a rifle type design to shoot indirect fire.

 

The Castellan launcher is indirect fire as well, but also shorter range, whereas the Vengeance launcher is the same range as both rocket variants.

 

EDIT: And to be clear, the superkrak and superfrag rocket variants are both direct fire.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Lord Nord

[Nephaston]

5 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Are all of the weapons indirect fire, or only the Sergeant one? A bit weird for a rifle type design to shoot indirect fire.

All the castellan launchers, which are the tubular pods on the underside, are indirect, the sergeants Vengeance launcher, his big rocket, is allegedly also indirect.

 

The rest of the tubes are, as far as we know regular line of sight rockets.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Just now, Nephaston said:

All the castellan launchers, which are the tubular pods on the underside, are indirect, the sergeants Vengeance launcher, his big rocket, is allegedly also indirect.

 

The rest of the tubes are, as far as we know regular line of sight rockets.

Got it, that makes more sense. I figured something had to be direct line of sight, otherwise why would they be aiming at things?

[Bryan Blaire]

1 hour ago, Maritn said:

And why do people think the small missile launchers are rotating? Just because they are round doesn't mean they have to (e.g. missile pods of Mi24). Also why would they rotate if every tube is filled with a missile? Rotating makes sense, if you only use one barrel at a time.

Because if they aren’t rotating, there’s no room in that weapon for a feeding mechanism to five of the missile tubes from the belt feed, only the single launch tube that is directly in front of the weapon body where the feed enters.  That is why I think the belt feed is so stupid for a weapon configuration like that - if that pod simply detached and was loaded with another fully loaded pod of missiles, like the Dark Reapers, the weapon makes slightly more sense.

 

Additionally the configuration of the weapon is dumb because if the small missiles are the Castellan launcher, that means they are the indirect fire weapon system for the Desolators - so why are they mounted in a direct fire weapon configuration?  There is no reason to hold an indirect fire weapon like a rifle, it would make much more sense for those to be mounted over the shoulder/off the power pack, or placed on the ground in front of them like a mortar, etc.  As it is, for that small missile pod to be the indirect fire weapon, the squad all needs to lean back, raise their arms toward the sky at like a 45 degree or higher angle, and pull the trigger and let the missiles arc out of their sight.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Bryan Blaire

[Burni]

1 hour ago, Maritn said:

My first reaction was that classic The Office "No... god... Nooooooooo", but to be honest the more I look at them, the better they get. Still far from fantastic and not the design I was hoping for, but okay.

 

And why do people think the small missile launchers are rotating? Just because they are round doesn't mean they have to (e.g. missile pods of Mi24). Also why would they rotate if every tube is filled with a missile? Rotating makes sense, if you only use one barrel at a time.

It's funny, I'm completely the opposite. At first I was like "Yeah, they're okay. don't love em and the dread isn't different enough, but I likely get the box" But now I really don't care for them and I think I'll skip the box and just focus on HH.

 

It's the first real swing and a miss for the Primaris line for me (although Incursors came very close...)

[templargdt]

3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Ah I remember those days. I miss those days.

 

Big guns are always fun.

I loved that "Way of the Water Warrior" write up from back then.  Wish it was still around.

EDIT: Managed to find it on the wayback machine.  What a great write up.
http://web.archive.org/web/20141110153815/https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/101214-the-way-of-the-water-warrior/

Edited January 31, 2023 by templargdt

[Maritn]

46 minutes ago, Bryan Blaire said:

Because if they aren’t rotating, there’s no room in that weapon for a feeding mechanism to five of the missile tubes from the belt feed, only the single launch tube that is directly in front of the weapon body where the feed enters.  That is why I think the belt feed is so stupid for a weapon configuration like that - if that pod simply detached and was loaded with another fully loaded pod of missiles, like the Dark Avengers, the weapon makes slightly more sense.

 

Well considering how short these missiles must be when looking at the belt, there could be enough room for a loading mechanism between where the belt is attached and the front of the pod.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Lord Nord said:

That's not true for the Desolators' rockets. Both are direct fire and have the same range. It therefore would seem to make more sense that the krak rocket with the lower number of shots (one) and better AP stat would be the larger, two-cylinder version while the frag rocket launcher - worse AP and with a minimum of four shots - would be the four-cylinder version.

 

Your reasoning is as solid as mine considering we are discussing a fictional weapon. 

 

That is why I feel it does not matter too much which is which. Model them in the way you like or that makes most sense to you. As long as your opponent knows what the unit is armed with at the start of the battle, it should be fine either way. Is someone fielded a squad of Intercessors with the barrel drums on their bolters and said they were armed with stalker bolt rifles, I would have no problem with that at all. Fine details like magazine or ammo are just cosmetic as far as I am concerned. 40K has not had an official WYSIWYG rule for quite a while now IIRC.

[Orange Knight]

I think the Desolation squad will look a lot better if all the models are equipped with the same weapon, and it is held like a large rifle pointed forward.

 

I think the Vengeance Launcher is simply too big, imo. I'd rather have all the models simply pointing the guns forward in unison. It will really help with the look of the kit.

[Bryan Blaire]

2 hours ago, Maritn said:

 

Well considering how short these missiles must be when looking at the belt, there could be enough room for a loading mechanism between where the belt is attached and the front of the pod.

And that’s where we get into the stupidity of that concept of the belt fed tiny missile - if the missiles are as short as bolts (because that belt looks no wider or thicker than a heavy bolter feed belt), then what and how exactly do they do that a heavy bolt round can’t do?  Honestly, that problem would have been a non-issue for me if the belt was about twice the width it currently is, so it didn’t look like a heavy bolt ammo feed.
 

Also, given that the firing drum looks thicker than the body of the weapon, there’s not room for a feeding mechanism that aligns those missiles into the tubes unless that drum spins.  It’s the same feed problem that Azrael’s old bullpup configuration weapon had - you have to space magic it away again, which is fine - 40K Marines are space magic too, but I still prefer my weapons to look and potentially function in a more realistic way than these would.

 

It also doesn’t solve the “why put an indirect fire weapon on a direct fire platform” question.  A rifle style firing position is direct fire.  A shoulder fired weapon held by the hands is also going to be logically direct fire.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Bryan Blaire

[jaxom]

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

 

The ammo feed goes into that part of the gun, so it would make sense that its rotating and filling the ammunition from that massive belt. That would be alot simpler than the belt having to move position to fill every barrel. A bit like the Unreal Tournament missile launcher.

 

3 hours ago, Bryan Blaire said:

Because if they aren’t rotating, there’s no room in that weapon for a feeding mechanism to five of the missile tubes from the belt feed, only the single launch tube that is directly in front of the weapon body where the feed enters.  That is why I think the belt feed is so stupid for a weapon configuration like that - if that pod simply detached and was loaded with another fully loaded pod of missiles, like the Dark Reapers, the weapon makes slightly more sense.

I think it rotates to load the missiles into the tubes, then launches them all? The Dark Reaper loading didn't make sense to me because they'd have to carry around soooo much extra ammunition if each head is one shot.

[NKirkham24]

Do we have any idea on when this is due out or expected price etc?

 

I'm thinking is it worth putting an element of the launcher on the base or a smaller separate base. Suppose it'll all come down to the sprue and what it looks like.

[Bryan Blaire]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

 

I think it rotates to load the missiles into the tubes, then launches them all? The Dark Reaper loading didn't make sense to me because they'd have to carry around soooo much extra ammunition if each head is one shot.

The Dark Reaper launcher is helped by the fact that the missiles themselves look smaller, so they probably already have the ability to do multiple shots from a single “ammo bin launch tip” as well as I always got the impression that the DR launchers were firing a single missile one after another, not their entire capacity at once - it makes a storm of missiles, but not necessarily all of them in the load - they probably have enough for a couple of shots almost “Iron Storm” loading style or something.  It also helps that the DR launchers are in the “space magic” camp of weapons already, so I more readily accept the BS from the space elves factions, while the Marine weapons have been there somewhat, but seem to operate on more logical weapon rules as far as their hard round weapons.  I do agree that the DRs should have more ammo kit with/on them at a time (good call for when I finally get around to building mine).

 

I don’t know, the rotate to load and then fire all at once actually sounds even less sensible to me for some reason, but I don’t believe that anyone is going to convince me this weapon is sensible - it’s not just one thing like loading, firing, mounting, etc., that’s wrong with it in my mind - the appearance of the entire weapon system is designed wrong for what it seemingly does.  At this point, I’m imagining the Marine walking around like a 20s gangster in a movie with a Tommy gun, just spraying off missiles into the air at a 70 degree angle and waiting for their impact over the hill/ridge/behind the building/wherever the call for indirect fire was dialed in for.  Even there, a giant drum of mini-missiles with a single barrel/firing aperture would have made more sense to me.

I’d honestly have been a lot more pleased, and it would have been more in line with what I figured that silhouette was showing, if the Desolators had all been armed with heavy bolters (of some variety) that had missile pods for various uses attached (or could be attached elsewhere on them, like over the shoulders via the power pack), or a full sized missile weapon that could be hip or shoulder fired, and indirect fire was simply a separate pod they could have put on them that used some kind of mini-MIRV warheads via a straight up into an arc and then let them fall down launcher mechanism off one side of the power plant (actually, that Votann missile rifle weapon looks like it could make a very cool pod to do this very thing, and then they jettison them and a servo-skull attaches a new pack or something).

Edited January 31, 2023 by Bryan Blaire

[Maritn]

23 hours ago, Bryan Blaire said:

 

Also, given that the firing drum looks thicker than the body of the weapon, there’s not room for a feeding mechanism that aligns those missiles into the tubes unless that drum spins.  

 

The diameter of the body is definitely big enough to fit the missiles in their final configuration with enough room for a loading mechanism. The missiles can be held from the inside, no need for a bigger diameter.

 

Not saying this is the best design ever, just that it's  technically possible to load these small missiles.