1st Company - theoretical and practical

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I often roll better for 5+ than 4+. 4+ is soooo swingy. 

[Captain Idaho]

Yes! I do too!

 

It's uncanny.

[Tacitus]

10 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Yes upgrading to Chapter Master is something I haven't touched upon directly as I'd consider that to be for army construction, but you're right the Angel's Artiface would be delicious on a Gravis Captain to boost to T6. 

 

I consider defensive Relics being ideally suited to a 1st Company Captain with better offensive weapons so he doesn't hit weakly. Having high strength feels necessary.

 

It's possible to make the Boltstorm Gauntlet or Power Fist Master-Crafted, thus the extra strength hits harder at D3. This could be crucial.

 

Would work on the power sword considering the extra 2 attacks it grants. However, if you're talking Master-Crafted on the power sword, you're better off giving a Gravis 1st Captain the Chainsword and then the Teeth of Terra. More attacks and same Strength and damage, for the cost of a single AP.

 

So if you wanted a good all rounder then I'd consider adding Master-Crafted to the Boltstorm Gauntlet and taking the power sword. You can smash things with a S8, damage 3 weapon or blend things with 7 attacks (more with Shock Assault etc) at S5 and AP-3.

 

And ultimately, if he's the 1st Captain he needs to be scary! So for this reason, the more imposing Gravis model and offensive capacity on the table wins out vs the Relic Shield Captain, in my view.

I don't think the Teeth of Terra stacks with Gravis styles.  Gravis Styles specifically calls out the Astartes Chainsword not "a chainsword weapon" like the bolter abilities call out "a bolt weapon"- In fact Gravis Styles even specifies it can't be used with a relic that replaces them so the Gravis Captain is almost definitely looking for a defensive relic - though MC'ing either half of the Boltstorm Gauntlet has potential.  A tough 1st Captain is good, but I don't think at the expense of a weak one.  The Heavy Bolt Rifle Gravis Captain isn't really what I'd call 1st Company - though I can write a lot of fanfic about one in charge of the reserves company in a Sgt Plumley (We Were Soldiers Movie) style.   The other half of the Battle for Macragge inspiration is they also killed all or most all the Nids - it was Mutually Assured Destruction.  So your First Captain needs some offense too.  Preferably but not required to be across multiple threat bands.   He's The Man when you need someone to go take on the Chaos Warlord, or the Tyranid Carnifex. - meaning has to not only absorb them, he has to beat them up in return. 

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah totally agree - 1st Captain needs the offence to be worrisome for the opponent as part of the theme.

 

And also yeah, the Teeth of Terra doesn't stack with Gravis fighting styles. But it's still better than the standard Chainsword and generates 3 attacks the same. But as I mentioned, a Damage 3 fist and powers sword is probably going to get you further. 

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Yeah totally agree - 1st Captain needs the offence to be worrisome for the opponent as part of the theme.

 

And also yeah, the Teeth of Terra doesn't stack with Gravis fighting styles. But it's still better than the standard Chainsword and generates 3 attacks the same. But as I mentioned, a Damage 3 fist and powers sword is probably going to get you further. 

I'm most tempted to go Defensive Relic on the Gravis Captain (Armor Indomitus, Sanctic Halo, or for comedy the Tarentian Cloak - I fall back, shoot, and get my wounds back but you're still locked! - or Angel Artifice - You need 5's and more of them now!) and Offensive (Almost certainly the Burning Blade for a power sword that hits like a fist) on the BGV Captain. 

 

Edit to Add:  You just gave me another idea too - Eradicator Squad -> Honoured Sergeant -> Master Crafted -> Heavy Melta Rifle - D6+3/D6+5 damage. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Tacitus

[Captain Idaho]

Well glad to give you ideas, but that's not very 1st Company 

 

Anyway, I love Honoured Sergeant. Giving it to a Terminator Sergeant is ideal as he's actually superior to many armies support characters in survivability. 

 

Pretty much wasted on many other 1st Company Sergeants as really the main reason to take Honoured Sergeant is for Master-Crafted. A Vanguard Veteran Sergeant can feasibly use a Sunwrath Pistol or Master-Crafted Relic Blade, but he's not so tough remember.

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Well glad to give you ideas, but that's not very 1st Company 

 

Anyway, I love Honoured Sergeant. Giving it to a Terminator Sergeant is ideal as he's actually superior to many armies support characters in survivability. 

 

Pretty much wasted on many other 1st Company Sergeants as really the main reason to take Honoured Sergeant is for Master-Crafted. A Vanguard Veteran Sergeant can feasibly use a Sunwrath Pistol or Master-Crafted Relic Blade, but he's not so tough remember.

The difference between a TH/SS Terminator Sergeant and a TH/SS Vanguard Vet on survivability is pretty small?  MC the TH in both cases and its 1 pip of armor save when they're likely to get on the SS save oftener anyway. 

[Captain Idaho]

The 3 wounds and 1+ save pips it for me, but also we have to consider "Fury of the First" as -1 to hit can hurt a 3+ model badly. 

 

For me, putting Master-Crafted on a Thunder Hammer screams Terminator. 

 

I have been putting it on a Relic Terminator with Plasma blaster alongside an Apothecary lately. D2 standard and overcharged D3 is pretty sneaky.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Tacitus]

I've heard rumors they're going to go back to an Index version to begin 10th - if so hopefully that will open up a Terminator Lieutenant and Command Squad to everyone again.  Being able to have a Terminator Apothecary and Lieutenant to go with the Ancient (for everyone) would go a long way towards making a First Company Terminator list work

[Captain Idaho]

I don't feel like we need a Lieutenant but the Terminator Apothecary would complete the set eh. At least the old Company Command concept anyway.

 

Not that I'd turn down a Terminator Lieutenant. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I wouldn’t hold my breath, but it would be nice.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

I don't feel like we need a Lieutenant but the Terminator Apothecary would complete the set eh. At least the old Company Command concept anyway.

 

Not that I'd turn down a Terminator Lieutenant. 

I think there should be a Cap/Chap/LT combo (and they should synergize) for each "armor" (Terminator, Gravis, Power Armor,Phobos, Bike, etc) data sheet if just for fluff.  The First Company still has a Captain, Two lieutenants, and a Chaplain.  Libbys can be drizzled throughout though. 

[Captain Idaho]

It does boggle the mind GW hasn't ever done that. Easy win creating different characters in different armour. For some reason they just kept producing the same characters in the same armour.