Wh40k 10th Edition Weapons in 10th

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah hitting on a 4+ with the combi weapon is notably poor on 1 shot.

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

20 shots at BS3+ with rerolls averages 18 hits (3 of which auto wounds).

 

15 hits wounding on 5s with rerolls averages 8 saving throws needed (plus the 3 from earlier).  There is a lot we do not know yet but if that is still AP-4 and 2 Damage then that is a dead Repulsor right there with some damage to spare.

 

Granted you have used a once-per-turn ability to get the kill but squashing large priority targets is exactly what Oath of Moment is meant for. I am going to wait and see before declaring the age of plasma to be over. 

 

There's also the flipside of, you've created a priority target for your opponent.

 

45 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Also worth noting that the Combi-Weapon profile is very different.

24" 1x [RF1] 4/0/1 with [Anti-Infantry 4+, Devastating Wounds] (and if Leading a unit [Sustained Hits 1])

 

They're combining a lot of stuff, which is ultimately a good thing, but interesting to see it have AI 4+ and Devastating Wounds outright.

2 minutes ago, Cruor Vault said:

I'm thinking this combi-weapon profile might be an error?  Its strange they previewed the new Primaris Sternguard with mulitple Combi weapons and showed them fighting a Screamer killer with them when the new profile would do very little against a monster.

 

If we assume it's a mistake it sure looks a LOT like what a 10th edition Volkite Caliver might do.....

 

Personally, I think it's supposed to represent loading in a Hellfire Round; because it's a Librarian fighting Tyranids and there's nothing other than the stormbolter and its ammo hopper to indicate the weapon.

 

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

Yeah, assuming this is not an incomplete profile with a ton more missing context, then this is a solid enough read of the situation.

 

Force Weapon consolidation lands middle of the road for Str between the current axe, stave, and sword options, and towards the low end for AP. Not too bad a nerf overall.

 

 

An argument against it being an incomplete profile is that the shown terminator squad profile listed the stats for Cyclones as well as heavy flamers in addition to the assault cannon, despite the likelyhood that the launch box version of the terminators likely only comes with the assault cannon.

[Lemondish]

6 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

An argument against it being an incomplete profile is that the shown terminator squad profile listed the stats for Cyclones as well as heavy flamers in addition to the assault cannon, despite the likelyhood that the launch box version of the terminators likely only comes with the assault cannon.

Great point, and it may just be my hopium here. I don't want them to squish down 'special weapons' like this.

6 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Personally, I think it's supposed to represent loading in a Hellfire Round; because it's a Librarian fighting Tyranids and there's nothing other than the stormbolter and its ammo hopper to indicate the weapon.

A very interesting point, but keep in mind that this datasheet represents an active, available unit you can field today. Folks have collections filled with Terminator Librarians no doubt, and many (including the currently on sale Blood Angels one) include a combi-weapon. If this datasheet is just for the launch box, the Hellfire round fits - if it's meant to represent the unit as it can exist in any collection today, well then we're back to square one with wildly speculating the meaning.

[Emperor Ming]

Not quite sure I understand the combi weapon on the librarian, I just thought he had a storm bolter

[Lemondish]

5 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Not quite sure I understand the combi weapon on the librarian, I just thought he had a storm bolter

That model does in that picture only has the storm bolter, sure. The one being sold today includes a combi-melta.

 

And still more in every collection could have combi-grav, combi-flamer, combi-plasma as well, since all are valid options today.

 

Remember, this is not a new unit. It's a new sculpt for an ancient unit. Now, the mystery of why it's there may be solved, but the mystery of what this profile even means still remains confusingly unknown haha

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lemondish

[Orange Knight]

8 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Not quite sure I understand the combi weapon on the librarian, I just thought he had a storm bolter

 

I believe the datasheet is a reference to an existing model that is being sold currently:

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

20 shots at BS3+ with rerolls averages 18 hits (3 of which auto wounds).

 

15 hits wounding on 5s with rerolls averages 8 saving throws needed (plus the 3 from earlier).  There is a lot we do not know yet but if that is still AP-4 and 2 Damage then that is a dead Repulsor right there with some damage to spare.

 

Granted you have used a once-per-turn ability to get the kill but squashing large priority targets is exactly what Oath of Moment is meant for. I am going to wait and see before declaring the age of plasma to be over. 

They’ve already stated AP is getting reigned in so those weapons remaining Ap-4 seems unlikely.

 

Also we don’t know yet what damage mitigation rules different vehicles will have as well.

[spessmarine]

Some of these stats seem like overcorrections, I imagine some things will change quickly enough if they are too tepid.

Melta with its AP still at -4 and the damage boost at half range seems like it has got its role as the very short ranged anti-everything. The S9 AP-4 D:D6+2 of the melta rifle at half-range looks so murderous now that we've got more weapons to compare to. Chainfists, focused smite, and force weapons can't compare at all for AP. They didn't give it anti-vehicle for good reason then.

[Urkh]

4 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

An argument against it being an incomplete profile is that the shown terminator squad profile listed the stats for Cyclones as well as heavy flamers in addition to the assault cannon, despite the likelyhood that the launch box version of the terminators likely only comes with the assault cannon.

 

The difference here is that which combi-weapon I have is chosen at list-building, and a cyclone missile launcher's modes are part of the weapon, and chosen during the game. Since they haven't shown us all the different modes a combi weapon could have (missing plasma and grav?), and they don't want to spoil what those things are in an article that has nothing to do with combi-weapons, in combination with the fact that it isn't something I choose each turn, I can see why they gave us the combi-weapon in that format, for this article.

[Kallas]

6 minutes ago, Urkh said:

Since they haven't shown us all the different modes a combi weapon could have (missing plasma and grav?), and they don't want to spoil what those things are in an article that has nothing to do with combi-weapons, in combination with the fact that it isn't something I choose each turn, I can see why they gave us the combi-weapon in that format, for this article.

That's assuming that combi-weapons have more options.

 

It's very possible that they're only the displayed profile, regardless of which option you take (and more to the point, the datasheet very well may be that a model may take "a combi-weapon" instead of being able to choose between a Combi-Melta, Combi-Flamer, Combi-Grav or Combi-Plasma).

 

It's not concrete either way, but it's odd to even display the Combi-Weapon profile at all when the showcased model (ie, the new Librarian) doesn't have one - it tells us that the option is still there for older models, but it just begs more questions. Edit: which I suppose is the point: get people talking about 10th!

Edited April 18, 2023 by Kallas

[Karhedron]

4 hours ago, Lemondish said:

Force Weapon consolidation lands middle of the road for Str between the current axe, stave, and sword options, and towards the low end for AP. Not too bad a nerf overall.

 

Probably not even a nerf at all if you look at the wider context which suggests AP is being reduced across the board (e.g. Fists are now AP-2). If the Sword, Axe and Stave had survived into 10th as separate weapons, they probably would have AP -2, -1 and 0 respectively.

[Urkh]

6 minutes ago, Kallas said:

That's assuming that combi-weapons have more options.

 

It's very possible that they're only the displayed profile, regardless of which option you take (and more to the point, the datasheet very well may be that a model may take "a combi-weapon" instead of being able to choose between a Combi-Melta, Combi-Flamer, Combi-Grav or Combi-Plasma).

 

It's not concrete either way, but it's odd to even display the Combi-Weapon profile at all when the showcased model (ie, the new Librarian) doesn't have one - it tells us that the option is still there for older models, but it just begs more questions. Edit: which I suppose is the point: get people talking about 10th!

 

Yah, I'm just trying to keep in mind that we don't have the full picture. There is still a lot for them to show us. I dont feel a need to panic about combi-weapons yet. What would probably cause more panic is the people who have T Libs with combi-weapons worrying if they can't take their combi-weapon anymore. This solves that issue, without potentially spoiling rules they may have another article planned for spoiling. 

 

Again, like you said, assuming they didn't just roll it into one. I just think they're (for once) just being careful.

[Marshal Reinhard]

25 minutes ago, Urkh said:

 

The difference here is that which combi-weapon I have is chosen at list-building, and a cyclone missile launcher's modes are part of the weapon, and chosen during the game. Since they haven't shown us all the different modes a combi weapon could have (missing plasma and grav?), and they don't want to spoil what those things are in an article that has nothing to do with combi-weapons, in combination with the fact that it isn't something I choose each turn, I can see why they gave us the combi-weapon in that format, for this article.

What one weapon profile did they include here then? And did they just willingly mislabel it? Or did they conpletely make one up that isn't real in the end? I find these scenarios harder to swallow. If they didnt want to reveal the different combi options they could've opted not to include it at all if theyre going to hide stuff anyway.

[Urkh]

11 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

What one weapon profile did they include here then? And did they just willingly mislabel it? Or did they conpletely make one up that isn't real in the end? I find these scenarios harder to swallow. If they didnt want to reveal the different combi options they could've opted not to include it at all if theyre going to hide stuff anyway.

 

As has been mentioned, they probably included it because of the other T lib that is being sold that has a combi weapon, to not make those people fear their combi weapon option is going away.

 

Everything is just speculation though.

[Marshal Reinhard]

So the profile listed is the one for combi melta then? Is it fake? If they wanted to show that its still there but hide the numbers they could ve just slapped it with a big redacted.

 

Sure what you're saying could be true, but the result is very strange if so. The implication of what we did get is rather that the model has has access to a weapon called '"combi weapon" with the specific profile shown.

[Urkh]

Warhammer community works in mysterious ways, is all I can say, haha!

[spessmarine]

Given that weapons are now integrated into the sheet like AoS, you don't need to worry as much about weapon bloat as they don't exist outside of the profile and therefore do not need to be kept in sync across multiple books. So I don't think they need to pare back the weapons that much.

 

So the combi-weapon on a one-off case can be its own thing and not impact combi-weapons elsewhere.

Edited April 18, 2023 by spessmarine

[Interrogator Stobz]

Thinking about it, it might just be the Bolter component of the Combi,

with some special ammo and only 4+ to hit.

Then the attached Special weapon component is added with the profiles we're used to (modified for 10th but as those are still secret they are hidden atm) but they are likely to be also 4+ to hit due to firing both or either takes a second longer to do.

 

Edit: As it is, it's worse than the Storm Bolter at the basics, and you need 6s to make it do anything against basic Power Armour.

Over 12" range: Hitting on 4s 50%, Wounding on 4s 25%, 3+save 8.3% to do D1 doesn't even scratch a Marine without a roll of 6 at the right time. Then it's still 1D. Useless.

I'm hoping they have more profiles ....

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz

[Captain Idaho]

I'd like to believe that but where is the other half of the weapon?

 

I dunno; I'm worried that Combis are going to be trash or wildly different on every model/unit that can have them.

[Interrogator Stobz]

It would be easy for them to hide additional profiles on the datasheet shown. Even moving the profiles for Smite etc up for that graphic is easy. The Combi wasn't the point of the article so it's still not canon.

 

But it's GeeDub, they'll be trash.

[bigtrouble]

2 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

 

Edit: As it is, it's worse than the Storm Bolter at the basics, and you need 6s to make it do anything against basic Power Armour.

Over 12" range: Hitting on 4s 50%, Wounding on 4s 25%, 3+save 8.3% to do D1 doesn't even scratch a Marine without a roll of 6 at the right time. Then it's still 1D. Useless.

I'm hoping they have more profiles ....

 

We’re of the same mind on the missing stat lines. But did they not give the  combiweapon anti-infantry 4+, meaning critical wounds, i.e. MW on a 4+ to hit? I really like that mechanic, interested to see how it plays on the table.

 

Edit: perhaps I read it wrong, it’s 4+ to wound is not saved. still cool.

Edited April 19, 2023 by bigtrouble

[Khornestar]

1.) I’m a dummy and didn’t realize the combination of rules on the combi weapon meant that 4+ to wound inflicts mortal wounds against infantry.

 

2.) If this really does represent the merged weapon profile of all combi guns, I’m really excited for chaos terminators. 5/5 can currently take them (1 plasma, 2 flamer, 2 melta), so one assumes that will still be the case in 10th. I’d not be surprised if they were limited for some reason, but also given the restriction of loadouts to what’s in the kit, it would be some bull:cuss to not allow it.

 

Obviously it’s a new edition and this is a bit of info out of the greater context, but the idea that terminator shooting matters again is very appealing. Yes, 5/5 can currently take combis but not all the same variant, so it isn’t super efficient or impressive unless you have the ideal targets for every weapon in range. Combi-bolters are not terrible against infantry, but assuming they still exist as a storm Bolter equivalent, maybe that will be the cheaper anti-chaff weapon and the combis can actually slay custodes and loyalist terminators far more effectively.

Gods I want to gun down so many custodes, please let this work out. :D

 

P.S. Chosen can do it too.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Khornestar

[Captain Idaho]

Not hitting on a 4+ really. I mean, it's nice to generate a Mortal Wound 1 in every 4 shots, but it wouldn't be anywhere near reliable enough in an elites army with limited units.

[Orange Knight]

Yeah this Combi weapon profile is actually effective against elite infantry if taken in high enough numbers.

 

It's a very interesting profile but so different from what exists already.

It definitely has a niche but I think people recoiled because the change is so drastic. It now fills a more interesting role: mortal wound infliction.