Wh40k 10th Edition Space Marine Index

[Squark]

You choose one melee weapon unless another weapon has the Extra Attacks trait. So you cam have two chainswords, but it does nothing.

[BrainFireBob]

29 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Judiciar and Primaris Company Champion turn a BGV squad into something terrifying. The Champion grants HI for 0 CPs, even if you have already used it and the Judiciar gives you first strike. This means the squad will hit before Chargers.

 

Or is there a limit on how many Characters you can attach to a unit?

One per unit unless the character sheet says otherwise, like Apothecaries or Lieutenants

[Kallas]

4 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Or is there a limit on how many Characters you can attach to a unit?

One attached Leader, unless something says otherwise (eg, the Primaris Apothecary can attach to a unit with a Captain, Chapter Master or Lt)

[Nephaston]

Firestrike also turned into an interesting option; can come in units of two and hits in overwatch on a 4+

[Khornestar]

21 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Firestrike also turned into an interesting option; can come in units of two and hits in overwatch on a 4+

I like this; too bad the unit size has been reduced to 2, however. Still, that rule will come in handy against many targets.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Khornestar

[Bouargh]

35 minutes ago, Arkhanist said:

 

You can  only take one of a specific Epic Hero, but no restriction on taking multiple different ones. E.g. you can't take 2 Calgars, but Calgar and Guilliman is fine.

I completly missed the "one of each max." I remembered the sketch from the warcom notice very very partially. Thanx for the correction.

 

[Kilamandaros]

33 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Judiciar and Primaris Company Champion turn a BGV squad into something terrifying. The Champion grants HI for 0 CPs, even if you have already used it and the Judiciar gives you first strike. This means the squad will hit before Chargers.

 

Or is there a limit on how many Characters you can attach to a unit?

 

Sadly can't have both.

 

The captain allows the free HI strat as well though no? And then you can also include a Lieutenant or Ancient which both give excellent buffs too.

 

Depending on the Emperor's Champ rules the Judiciar is very tempting for my Sword Brethren though...

[Bouargh]

36 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

A model can only pick one melee weapon to make attacks, unless any additional weapons have [Extra Attacks].

It is not as if it was clearly written in the rules... I really have to get a rest and reread carefully. Thanx for the correction. 

[Khornestar]

Judiciar also looks like the only source of fights first in the entire army, though I skipped all firstborn data sheets so perhaps there’s something amongst those.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Khornestar

[Kallas]

1 minute ago, Khornestar said:

Judiciar also looks like the only source of fights first in the entire army

Yeah you're right (quick Ctrl+F found only the Judiciar)

[Dracos]

I do believe we’ve been hearing about the death of Firstborn … ohhh forever now … and will be hearing the same thing come the introduction to 12e ten years from now. 
 

It’s an index gentlemen. Plenty of time and things to be changed by the time actual Codex will come out. Let’s judge the index for what it is not go assuming GW is nefariously looking to put the screws to your favorite FB or nerf your beloved Primaris unit. 
 

We are still only looking at pieces of the elephant with our blindfolds on. 

[Kilamandaros]

6 minutes ago, Dracos said:

I do believe we’ve been hearing about the death of Firstborn … ohhh forever now … and will be hearing the same thing come the introduction to 12e ten years from now. 
 

It’s an index gentlemen. Plenty of time and things to be changed by the time actual Codex will come out. Let’s judge the index for what it is not go assuming GW is nefariously looking to put the screws to your favorite FB or nerf your beloved Primaris unit. 
 

We are still only looking at pieces of the elephant with our blindfolds on. 

 

Given that the Marine codex is out late summer, it has already been developed and printed and thus almost certainly has the exact same datasheets as listed here, sorry to tell you.

 

However, the one deciding factor we can't take into account is points, impossible to say how good any of these rules are without the context of points.

[Squark]

18 minutes ago, Kilamandaros said:

 

Given that the Marine codex is out late summer, it has already been developed and printed and thus almost certainly has the exact same datasheets as listed here, sorry to tell you.

 

However, the one deciding factor we can't take into account is points, impossible to say how good any of these rules are without the context of points.

The only changes we can reasonably expect will be to updated kits like the highly probable Assault Terminators. I could also see Sternguard getting their heavy flamers back in a multi-part kit.

[Tymell]

3 hours ago, Kallas said:

It would have helped if they didn't expand the number of datasheets present (eg, Land Speeders being split instead of consolidated); and things like Primaris Captains and Captains being separate, instead of just being one sheet. There are so many datasheets that could be consolidated easily.

 

Yep, agreed. So many of these are basically just the same thing but with a different suit of armour or load-out. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

They've flat out stated that some units will go to legends. This is what they will do. They're not moving whole sale slews of models there (ie, all classic marine kits)I but bits and pieces are retired at some point, like when an aged kit is retired (castra ferrum?)

 

But nothing precludes this from cutting both ways. I'm still convinced, due to the poor reception of the unit, that Surpressors are a potential candidate eventually. Like, seems like outriders were finally given the 3-6 treatment, but surpressors are still 3. 

[BrainFireBob]

Termie Ancient references joining a unit with lieutenant, there is no termie lieutenant. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

7 minutes ago, BrainFireBob said:

Termie Ancient references joining a unit with lieutenant, there is no termie lieutenant. 

 

We know more reveals are coming.  This might have been a bit of future-proofing.

[Squark]

15 minutes ago, BrainFireBob said:

Termie Ancient references joining a unit with lieutenant, there is no termie lieutenant. 

There is, actually. They're just Space Wolves exclusive because Space Wolves had lieutenants before it was cool, the hipsters.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Squark

[Evil Eye]

Yeah the more I look at it, the more of a mess this is. They somehow managed to make the Primaris/Firstborn divide even more clunky and restrictive than it was before, and for seemingly no reason. The transport fiasco seems especially stupid. Like, let's assume we buy into the meme that Primaris are actually significantly bigger than Firstborn (they're not; the few Firstborn models we've had post-Primaris have been a hair shorter at most). I could maybe understand Rhinos and Razorbacks not carrying Primaris, maybe, at least if it weren't for the fact that the Rhino has a top hatch for shooting from, so the added height is considerably less of an issue- it's hardly outside of the realms of possibility that the hatch, being there as it is for a reason, can be left open to allow anything normally too tall to fit- such as, you know, a larger than average Marine- to embark. Terminators being excluded from them was AFAIK due to sheer bulk and colossal weight rather than height; no way does a Primaris Marine weigh as much as a Terminator. And this is again assuming you treat the Primaris as being significantly larger than Firstborn, which they patently aren't as Firstborn have never been true-scaled (until recently) and again, the Firstborn that have been released post-Primaris, including CSM, are not that much shorter than a Primaris. So honestly, there's zero sensible reason Primaris Marines shouldn't fit on a Rhino.

 

What's even worse is Firstborn not fitting on Impulsors! Again, if you assume Firstborn are in-universe actually noticeably smaller than Primaris, like at all (not even to the degree shown by old-scale Marines compared to the more "true-scaled" Primaris minis) then they should have no problems boarding one. Having Firstborn unable to use Primaris transports isn't just nonsensical, it actively hurts the game in every aspect- in fluff-representation and the ability to build the army people actually want. In fact, it serves no purpose beyond forcing people to play the game the way GW wants.

 

I'm suddenly very smug about being a Tyranid player...

[Arkangilos]

Personally the way I would have done it for characters is a way they used to do it mixed with how it is now.

 

You would have a sheet for the armor types, but then for war gear you would say, “choose from captain’s wargear list.” “Choose from Lt’s wargear list.” 
 

And each list has all the options no matter what armor type they have, and you can kitbash your models. But that’s just me. If you want a Gravis captain with a master crafted bolt gun, you should be allowed to do it (even though there isn’t a need for it). Any captain can get a thunder hammer. Any captain can get a plasma pistol. Any captain can get whatever the other captains can get.

 

And before anyone says that would hurt sales, I disagree. If you liked the look of a Primaris guy but wanted a thunder hammer you would buy a kit that included a thunder hammer to slap on. If you already had a thunder hammer, you’d still have to buy a captain. 
 

They could also do what FW does and sell “commander option” kits.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Squark]

17 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Yeah the more I look at it, the more of a mess this is. They somehow managed to make the Primaris/Firstborn divide even more clunky and restrictive than it was before, and for seemingly no reason. The transport fiasco seems especially stupid. Like, let's assume we buy into the meme that Primaris are actually significantly bigger than Firstborn (they're not; the few Firstborn models we've had post-Primaris have been a hair shorter at most). I could maybe understand Rhinos and Razorbacks not carrying Primaris, maybe, at least if it weren't for the fact that the Rhino has a top hatch for shooting from, so the added height is considerably less of an issue- it's hardly outside of the realms of possibility that the hatch, being there as it is for a reason, can be left open to allow anything normally too tall to fit- such as, you know, a larger than average Marine- to embark. Terminators being excluded from them was AFAIK due to sheer bulk and colossal weight rather than height; no way does a Primaris Marine weigh as much as a Terminator. And this is again assuming you treat the Primaris as being significantly larger than Firstborn, which they patently aren't as Firstborn have never been true-scaled (until recently) and again, the Firstborn that have been released post-Primaris, including CSM, are not that much shorter than a Primaris. So honestly, there's zero sensible reason Primaris Marines shouldn't fit on a Rhino.

 

What's even worse is Firstborn not fitting on Impulsors! Again, if you assume Firstborn are in-universe actually noticeably smaller than Primaris, like at all (not even to the degree shown by old-scale Marines compared to the more "true-scaled" Primaris minis) then they should have no problems boarding one. Having Firstborn unable to use Primaris transports isn't just nonsensical, it actively hurts the game in every aspect- in fluff-representation and the ability to build the army people actually want. In fact, it serves no purpose beyond forcing people to play the game the way GW wants.

 

I'm suddenly very smug about being a Tyranid player...

I actually figured out the reason for Impulsors being primaris after this came up in the DA Horus Heresy thread and I looked at my impulsor's passenger seats. If you look closely, the Impulsor has safety connections that interface with its passengers' backpack, but that connection looks like it would only work with the big circle on Mk. X armor.

 

Edit: Repulsor and Impulsor are too easy to confuse >.<

Edited June 9, 2023 by Squark

[BrainFireBob]

Nothing can join Devastators or Centurions. 

 

Tactical Squads already have a fallback ability.

 

Best use of FB may be jump pack less Assault squads with captain, lieutenant, and double specials on suicide runs. That's a statement from the company

Edited June 9, 2023 by BrainFireBob

[The Emperors Champion22]

54 minutes ago, Squark said:

The only changes we can reasonably expect will be to updated kits like the highly probable Assault Terminators. I could also see Sternguard getting their heavy flamers back in a multi-part kit.

Hopefully we will see jump pack primaris characters, assault squads, and  vanguard veterans at least.

[sandrorect]

11 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Yeah the more I look at it, the more of a mess this is. They somehow managed to make the Primaris/Firstborn divide even more clunky and restrictive than it was before, and for seemingly no reason. The transport fiasco seems especially stupid. Like, let's assume we buy into the meme that Primaris are actually significantly bigger than Firstborn (they're not; the few Firstborn models we've had post-Primaris have been a hair shorter at most). I could maybe understand Rhinos and Razorbacks not carrying Primaris, maybe, at least if it weren't for the fact that the Rhino has a top hatch for shooting from, so the added height is considerably less of an issue- it's hardly outside of the realms of possibility that the hatch, being there as it is for a reason, can be left open to allow anything normally too tall to fit- such as, you know, a larger than average Marine- to embark. Terminators being excluded from them was AFAIK due to sheer bulk and colossal weight rather than height; no way does a Primaris Marine weigh as much as a Terminator. And this is again assuming you treat the Primaris as being significantly larger than Firstborn, which they patently aren't as Firstborn have never been true-scaled (until recently) and again, the Firstborn that have been released post-Primaris, including CSM, are not that much shorter than a Primaris. So honestly, there's zero sensible reason Primaris Marines shouldn't fit on a Rhino.

 

What's even worse is Firstborn not fitting on Impulsors! Again, if you assume Firstborn are in-universe actually noticeably smaller than Primaris, like at all (not even to the degree shown by old-scale Marines compared to the more "true-scaled" Primaris minis) then they should have no problems boarding one. Having Firstborn unable to use Primaris transports isn't just nonsensical, it actively hurts the game in every aspect- in fluff-representation and the ability to build the army people actually want. In fact, it serves no purpose beyond forcing people to play the game the way GW wants.

 

I'm suddenly very smug about being a Tyranid player...

 

They maybe think if primaris can go in rhino there is no reason for us to buy impulsors. Maybe some firstborn units still will be disapering and rhinos and firstborn servo units will be some of these units so GW think is better to separate the units.

 

But as we don´t know want the designers wants, we can only speculate. But is more probably is a model an sale reason than a in-universe explanation.

 

[DemonGSides]

We've had persistent rumors that we are getting jump pack primaris Soon (tm), and the new Space Marine video game features a primaris main character who uses a jump pack.

 

It's not a guarantee, but it's probable.