Full Dark Angel reveal

[WrathOfTheLion]

One thing that's a small let-down for me is the lack of a winged Bladeguard helmet in the upgrade kit. I think that is a missed opportunity that would've looked fantastic.

[Matrindur]

7 minutes ago, jaxom said:

ETB in a separate box was required once Indomitus was replaced by Leviathan. 

And exactly because we didn't get a new kit at that time makes it very unlikely there will be one in the future. 

[Robbienw]

7 hours ago, Mike8404 said:

As a new player in 2018 who was given the "don't tell new players not to buy new kits" that was the absolute worst advice I was given since 99% of the kits I initially bought are now retired and look horrible compared to the new stuff, it are effectively going away in 40k (Tac Squads and Rhinos).  It was a complete waste of thousands of dollars.  Only kits that I do use are Ironclads and Centurions.  The rest I ended up giving away.

 

The issue is, everything today is Primaris, even if we can it "Tacticus" now. I'm not gonna rehash this argument here because this isn't the thread for it, but it's time to let First Born fall into 30k where they belong.

 

Companions are Primaris, it's just the way it is going forward.  The writing was on the wall 8 years ago

An absurd statement.  Firstborn have been the bedrock of 40k since it’s inception,

they will always be a key part of 40k.  New players will buy whatever kind of marines GW produces wether they are firstborn or newer space marines that previously came under the increasingly redundant ‘Primaris’ appellation.  GW has just released one direct 40k update of a firstborn unit with more on the way next year 

[Marshal Reinhard]

More useless distinction warring.

[Orange Knight]

15 hours ago, mecanojavi99 said:

To be fair, it's also GWs fault for dragging it for so long, had they being up front from the first moment about Primaris eventually replacing all Firstborn, then most people would have moved on already.

 

GW could have pulled the bandaid off a lot sooner, but the vitriolic reactions from a very vocal minority probably delayed the process. 

 

Going back to the companions, it only takes a glance to see that they are indeed Primaris. They have a lot in common with Bladeguard and Sword Brethren, and are in the same scale.

 

I am surprised they have so much helmet variation, as the bulk of the armour is pretty uniform, albeit decorated, MK X. For some this will be great, I'm sure. I think they look best with their hoods up over an exposed face as they remind me a lot of the Dark Angel veterans.

[mecanojavi99]

24 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

An absurd statement.  Firstborn have been the bedrock of 40k since it’s inception,

they will always be a key part of 40k.  New players will buy whatever kind of marines GW produces wether they are firstborn or newer space marines that previously came under the increasingly redundant ‘Primaris’ appellation.  GW has just released one direct 40k update of a firstborn unit with more on the way next year 

What Firstborn unit? Terminator armour can be used by Primaris Marines and you can bet that after his wounds at the hands of Angron, Belial also crossed the Rubicon to save his life similar to how Ragnar did after his duel with Ghazgul.

 

We are about to enter 2024, it's about time to accept that Firstborn in 40K have their days numbered.

[mecanojavi99]

7 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

GW could have pulled the bandaid off a lot sooner, but the vitriolic reactions from a very vocal minority probably delayed the process. 

 

Going back to the companions, it only takes a glance to see that they are indeed Primaris. They have a lot in common with Bladeguard and Sword Brethren, and are in the same scale.

 

I am surprised they have so much helmet variation, as the bulk of the armour is pretty uniform, albeit decorated, MK X. For some this will be great, I'm sure. I think they look best with their hoods up over an exposed face as they remind me a lot of the Dark Angel veterans.

I personally have never being a fan of bare heads, DA don't particularly interest me but I prefer helmets with hoods or helmets without hoods but big wings like the Lion, that's one of my only complains about the new Belial, the lack of a helmet.

Edited December 26, 2023 by mecanojavi99

[MoriyaSchism]

28 minutes ago, mecanojavi99 said:

What Firstborn unit? Terminator armour can be used by Primaris Marines and you can bet that after his wounds at the hands of Angron, Belial also crossed the Rubicon to save his life similar to how Ragnar did after his duel with Ghazgul.

 

We are about to enter 2024, it's about time to accept that Firstborn in 40K have their days numbered.

I have my doubts about this, because the direction of the Primaris initially felt quite strange. That this new line of Space Marines launched without Terminators and even the new Calgar model had some shoddy lore about his Terminator plate being refashioned into an absurd looking suit of Gravis armour. Part of me wonders if the fan demand for Terminators was the reason they even gave us proper Terminators again. I think the same thing applies to the new Scout and Black Templar Neophyte models with the vanguard lore that felt like it was trying to do away with the old Codex variation of the 10th company.

Edited December 26, 2023 by MoriyaSchism

[Robbienw]

32 minutes ago, mecanojavi99 said:

What Firstborn unit?

 

Terminators, and for next year we have Scouts and Deathwing Knights.

[Rain]

I really wish GW would just drop the Primaris/Firstborn distinction, and call them all "Astartes." They are clearly phasing out "Firstborn" and they should phase out the distinction alongside it. They can then update classic kits like the Land Raider, but have them be passenger agnostic, just as they updated the classic Indomitus Terminators and dropped in a throwaway line about how they can be Firstborn of Primaris inside of the armor, as if it matters at all. Hell, they can even drop in another throwaway line about how Mark X power armor can now hold "Firstborns" for--reasons, so people can make-believe that their dollies are Primaris or not, at their own whims.

 

What matters is the actual appearance of the units. You can just ignore the stupid parts of the lore, Khorne knows I have to, playing World Eaters. In other words, whether the Companions are "Primaris" or not doesn't really matter in my opinion, as much as, "Do they l look cool?" And, in my opinion, they do. And I say this as someone who is not a fan of the majority of nu-Marine sculpts.

[mecanojavi99]

3 minutes ago, MoriyaSchism said:

I have my doubts about this, because the direction of the Primaris initially felt quite strange. That this new line of Space Marines launched without Terminators and even the new Calgar model had some shoddy lore about his Terminator plate being refashioned into an absurd looking suit of Gravis armour. Part of me wonders if the fan demand for Terminators was the reason they even gave us proper Terminators again. I think the same thing applies to the new Scout and Black Templar Neophyte models with the vanguard lore that felt like it was trying to do away with the old Codex variation of the 10th company.

There is nothing to doubt, GW themselves directly stated that Primaris marines can use Terminator armour.

 

Vanguard units were never meant to replace Scouts, the addition of Vanguard units doesn't suddenly remove the need for initiates to go trough the Scout period, which has been stated since the first moment that Primaris also undertake.

 

This is once again a few people holding to a fools hope that somehow GW will ditch Primaris and go back to Firstborn, when there hasn't been a single indicative of that.

 

It's honestly quite frustrating to see people unable to move on and accept reality regardless of how much time it passes, it's like the people that still hate on AoS for the death of Fantasy.

[mecanojavi99]

4 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

 

Terminators, and for next year we have Scouts and Deathwing Knights.

Can they be used by Primaris marines? Yes? Then they are not Firstborn units. 

 

When there are only Primaris units in the codex will you also try to convince people that Terminators somehow aren't Primaris?

 

Do you seriously believe that any new Scout is going to end up as Firstborn instead of a Primaris? When even the most reticent chapters like the Space Wolves and Dark Angels have accepted them? As I said, fools hope.

 

 

[01RTB01]

9 hours ago, Mike8404 said:

As a new player in 2018 who was given the "don't tell new players not to buy new kits" that was the absolute worst advice I was given since 99% of the kits I initially bought are now retired and look horrible compared to the new stuff, it are effectively going away in 40k (Tac Squads and Rhinos).  It was a complete waste of thousands of dollars.  Only kits that I do use are Ironclads and Centurions.  The rest I ended up giving away.

 

The issue is, everything today is Primaris, even if we can it "Tacticus" now. I'm not gonna rehash this argument here because this isn't the thread for it, but it's time to let First Born fall into 30k where they belong.

 

Companions are Primaris, it's just the way it is going forward.  The writing was on the wall 8 years ago

There's too many negatives for my sleepy head to comprehend but:

 

1. What were you spending thousands on?

 

2. Old kits get bought and sold all the time on social media sales groups. Not sure why you gave them away. 

 

What advice were you given? As written it reads like noone gave you any advice.

 

The core of the range is primaris, terminators and scouts however, have been redone. mkIII and vi are now viable in 40k following their rescaling. 

 

As for the DA 'rsnge refresh', it's two characters, two units and an upgrade sprue. I don't get why it's being hailed as such a big thing? Glad people are happy but seems sparse?

[MoriyaSchism]

Just now, mecanojavi99 said:

There is nothing to doubt, GW themselves directly stated that Primaris marines can use Terminator armour.

 

Vanguard units were never meant to replace Scouts, the addition of Vanguard units doesn't suddenly remove the need for initiates to go trough the Scout period, which has been stated since the first moment that Primaris also undertake.

 

This is once again a few people holding to a fools hope that somehow GW will ditch Primaris and go back to Firstborn, when there hasn't been a single indicative of that.

 

It's honestly quite frustrating to see people unable to move on and accept reality regardless of how much time it passes, it's like the people that still hate on AoS for the death of Fantasy.

A new unit appears that steps all over the toes of of Scout Marines in terms of battlefield role. This same type of new Marine gets 3 datasheets and two different model kits years before the Scouts get any model support. A reprint of the old "Making of a Space Marine" fluff doesn't really contradict what they did with the range. Why are you getting frustrated about what other people feel? Do people who hate Age of Sigmar and Primaris Marines need to be humiliated and broken into loving something they don't enjoy? Or do they just hate Warhammer if they don't enjoy the current direction of things? People aren't required to unconditionally love everything Games Workshop does.

[Joe]

To be fair, this is a thread to discuss the Dark Angels reveals; debating the relationship between Scouts and everything else under the sun would be better served in a new thread.

 

Really dig the Inner Circle Companions.

[Robbienw]

10 minutes ago, mecanojavi99 said:

Can they be used by Primaris marines? Yes? Then they are not Firstborn units.

 

 

That’s not relevant.  They are updates of Firstborn designs, GW even says this in their articles that they are direct updates of classic kits.  ‘Primaris’ being able to use them doesn’t stop them being firstborn designs.

 

FYI GW is dropping the Primaris appellation, as we can see in new rules and unit names, it’s largely becoming a fluff reference term for the extra Cawl added organs only.

[Evil Eye]

53 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

GW could have pulled the bandaid off a lot sooner, but the vitriolic reactions from a very vocal minority probably delayed the process. 

 

Or, you know, they could have just given us proper upscaled Marines instead of giving us something completely different and then lying about not discontinuing real Marines.

 

I know you seem to be unable to comprehend the idea that not everyone likes Primaris and that maybe they weren't a good idea, so maybe this will explain things a bit better.

[Blindhamster]

Agreed the companions are fab, terminators are good too, consistent with the other ones!

 

probably better to drop the tired old topic of firstborn vs primaris, it doesn’t matter anymore regardless and the people with an axe to grind on either side won’t budge on their views at this point.

 

on the topic of scouts, outside of the very first batch or primaris that came “pre made”, primaris in the lore have gone through “normal” initiate training for almost the entire time primaris were a thing, scouts are earlier in their development though and can easily represent either type of marine. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Blindhamster

[mecanojavi99]

9 minutes ago, MoriyaSchism said:

A new unit appears that steps all over the toes of of Scout Marines in terms of battlefield role. This same type of new Marine gets 3 datasheets and two different model kits years before the Scouts get any model support. A reprint of the old "Making of a Space Marine" fluff doesn't really contradict what they did with the range. Why are you getting frustrated about what other people feel? Do people who hate Age of Sigmar and Primaris Marines need to be humiliated and broken into loving something they don't enjoy? Or do they just hate Warhammer if they don't enjoy the current direction of things? People aren't required to unconditionally love everything Games Workshop does.

Scouts as their name indicates, are recon units but they are first and foremost meant as training for initiates, Vanguard units include stealth troops, snipers, terror troops and saboteurs, this is like saying that the navy Seals are meant to replace your cadets.

 

Because it has been 6 years and we still have people that cannot accept reality, you can hate Primaris and GW all you want, but hating something doesn't make it disappear, denying reality doesn't make anyone feel better, accepting it and moving one is what does.

[mecanojavi99]

6 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

That’s not relevant.  They are updates of Firstborn designs, GW even says this in their articles that they are direct updates of classic kits.  ‘Primaris’ being able to use them doesn’t stop them being firstborn designs.

 

FYI GW is dropping the Primaris appellation, as we can see in new rules and unit names, it’s largely becoming a fluff reference term for the extra Cawl added organs only.

The BT Castellan was also a recreation of a faithfull Firstborn model, yet he was only meant to be Primaris, as his current rules show with him having the Tacticus keyword.

 

They are dropping the Primaris prefix on units because they are removing the Firstborn ones, hence there is no need to make a distinction anymore, all Chaplains on Bike are Primaris, for example.

 

[Robbienw]

20 minutes ago, mecanojavi99 said:

The BT Castellan was also a recreation of a faithfull Firstborn model, yet he was only meant to be Primaris

 

 

False, GW said you could use him as either.

 

In reality he is a firstborn design, a direct copy of a marine on the 3rd edition boxart who was created many years before ‘primaris’ units were a twinkle in Jes Goodwin's eye. His armour style is customised but recognisably mk5 and 6, a firstborn armour style.  

[mecanojavi99]

Just now, Robbienw said:

False, GW said you could use him as either.

 

In reality he is a firstborn design, a direct copy of a marine on the 3rd edition boxart who was created many years before ‘primaris’ units were a twinkle in Jes Goodwin's eye. His armour style is customised but recognisably mk5 and 6, a firstborn armour style.  

You factually cannot use him as a Firstborn character because he has the Tacticus keyword, meaning he is wearing MK X armour and is a Primaris character.

 

He is obviously inspired by old artwork, but the rules are very clear about what he is.

[Blindhamster]

Does it matter? And is this the thread for it? 

[MoriyaSchism]

8 minutes ago, mecanojavi99 said:

Scouts as their name indicates, are recon units but they are first and foremost meant as training for initiates, Vanguard units include stealth troops, snipers, terror troops and saboteurs, this is like saying that the navy Seals are meant to replace your cadets.

 

Because it has been 6 years and we still have people that cannot accept reality, you can hate Primaris and GW all you want, but hating something doesn't make it disappear, denying reality doesn't make anyone feel better, accepting it and moving one is what does.

The intent of the initial 7th edition release and the restructuring of the entire army list was that this new stuff was going to completely replace the old army and force organization. They tried to do some crazy stuff to blur the lines between the Assault, Devastator and Tactical roles with things like the Primaris Suppressors who were depicted with having the Devastator chevron on their shoulders. The same thing that happened to other units happened to Scouts too. I initially bought into Primaris. I bought a bunch of them when this stuff came out and I was planning to make a Rift Stalkers army but then I realized how utterly boring it was to build a Codex compliant Primaris army. How annoying it was that every other unit that wasn't a regular infantry squad was this 3 to 6 unit mess.  I wasn't happy at the time when my Assault company was limited to the ugly Reivers and the 3 man squads of Inceptors. I didn't enjoy how my hobby project was going until I started going through my bits box and repurposing parts of my old miniatures to make Space Marines I always imagined when I first got into this hobby. As years passed they somewhat moved away from the "HOT NEW CODEX ASTARTES" and brought back proper Assault Marines and other things. One issue I have with Primaris still remains and that is a lack of bits variety in the basic infantry kits. The new Dark Angels stuff is great, but the Space Marine line still isn't exactly where it used to be.

[Robbienw]

18 minutes ago, mecanojavi99 said:

You factually cannot use him as a Firstborn character because he has the Tacticus keyword.

You factually can, because GW said you can and because it’s a firstborn design from 1998 artwork.

 

The keyword is just a rules mechanism, he is clearly not in mk10 armour.

 

If I used him in a game set in pre-Indomitus 40k, no one would think he was out of place .  If I used an intercessor squad they would obviously be out of place.

 

I think you problem is you have failed to understand what Primaris means in current 40k, you are still stuck in the 2017 paradigm.